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After months messing about trying to record myself, I think this is probably as good as I'm going to get (recording-wise), unless anyone can suggest something....!

This was recorded on Audacity with a roughly 60-40 mix of my Avantgrand N2 sound + Pianoteq 5 (Steinway D4 Daily Practice). As mentioned in a previous post, it doesn't work nearly as well through the N2 speakers.

Soundcloud - Etude Op.25 No.7

Well I can't comment on the technical aspects of the recording as I am no expert but you are a much more talented pianist than me and I really enjoyed this, so many thanks for posting it...
S

Nice playing and nice sound Chris.

Did use use line out or usb for the transfer to Audacity?

Also, I really like the intimate sound of the recording. It's what I am trying for on my AP. However, you could play with adding a bit of reverb. DON'T use the default Audacity reverb, download a freeware VST (I really like DX Reverb lite).

If you copy your final edit to a new set of tracks, then apply a reverb effect (having adjusted the reverb settings to 'wet' only, no dry output) to the copied track, you can listen to the mix and bring in a bit of reverb - just enough to add airiness to the sound - if you can hear the reverb, it's probably too much.

Thanks - I like the sound quite a lot. Unlike the previous ones, I actually think it has a nice ambience whilst at the same time sounding rather intimate. I personally don't think it needs more reverb. (unless you want a typical classical sound, which I actually don't like anyway)

Greg.

Thanks. I might try adding a little more reverb on the PT output then, I think it's set to dry room at the mo.

Yes, I used the DP line-outs to a 2nd PC running Audacity.

This is definitely as good as I can get now without spending a lot more time/money. I've ended up with a mix of naked N2 sound with Pianoteq Grotrian Concert Royal (based mainly on the "Intimate" microphone set-up). I'm particularly happy with the better dynamics I can get with Grotrian vs Steinway,D4, and a more realistic base.

Soundcloud

Beautiful sound Chris! I like the fact that you kept the original CF3-S sample of the N2 - with its own unique character - as a strong base and beautified it with the Pianoteq sample. Nice playing also. Makes me aware I still have a lot to practice before reaching the level of your skill.

First of all, well played, wish I could play half as good as this.

On the audio-processing side, I noticed some hiss/interference, in the quieter passages. Might be worth trying Noise Removal, though that could take away some of the character of the piano sound.

If you're going through a headphone or a Line Out jack, there is always a risk of unwanted noise. As soon as there is an extra cable, there is a risk of hiss and such. A USB audio interface might fix that.

I would recommend recording with Pianoteq, or some computer piano library alone, just to eliminate that risk factor of extra noise. Unless you want to get some of the character of the AvantGrand N2 into your recordings.

Thanks Theodor - I've tried humting for the interference - though I've got more cables running around the piano than a Snakes on Plane set...

...I need to record on an extra PC because I do want the hybrid sound (PT + N2).

I agree with Greg. I'm impressed. You need that Yamaha sound in the mix otherwise it would just have that very responsive but slightly eerie hollowness of PianoTeq. It's a good compromise you've found here. I also like a closer, more intimate sound so I don't think it needs more reverb.

+1 Gotta nice mix here. I may be wrong but I have found this when layering with pteq, you'll have areas when the pteq sound cuts through more in some areas of the keyboard, of course one can always edit volume of each note but I never went that far.

I'd be tempted and wondered if you increase the weight of the yammaha sound slightly more, or decrease pteq, but on pteq whack up the sound board impedance a bit ( you need standard or pro for that), so you get the extra bit of resonance but more of the tonal quality of the yamaha.

In any case great job

Thanks Alexander, I'll try down-weighting PT a bit. I've currently got the sound impedance set at 1.20; any more and I find the high treble notes ring on unnaturally long.

You could try and tweak the cutoff and qfactor while changing the impedance as well, that can have a bearing on that behaviour how quickly the overtones evolve and decay in the treble region. If you get some nasties, the spectrum profile to temper some of them can help too.

Chris, if you could record the audio on the AvantGrand only, but at the same time record as MIDI into your computer, then you can run the resulting MIDI file through Pianoteq, and mix the two in Audacity, afterwards.

Here, I'm assuming you recorded everything live, in that SoundCloud performance you linked in your first post. If you made the recording the way I just explained, then of course just ignore my suggestion.

Very nice, Chris. This might be psychological, but I think I can hear a tiny echo in the upper notes, which I would imagine would be caused by the attacks of the two piano sounds not being perfectly time aligned. However, I'm looking for this, because I know that it's two pianos. If I didn't know, maybe I wouldn't notice this, whether it's real or not.

Greg.

Best way of eliminating that is using an audio or video editor where you can really lengthen the tracks and accurately place them side by side. I find Audacity very hard to use for more than one track.

petews: yeah, aligning the tracks would work if the two pianos have the same time mis-alignment for every note of the keyboard for both instruments. If not, then the adjustment needs to be made at the note/MIDI level, not at the track level. Changing the length of the tracks is not relevant to this problem.

Greg.

The way I actually recorded is first getting a good rendition recorded on the N2, then playing this through PT on a laptop, and routing the output back via the headphone jack on the laptop to the audio In on the N2. I then record from the audio Out jacks on the N2 direct into Audacity on my desktop. Probably too convoluted, but the only way I could think of doing it. I'll perhaps try recording it as two separate tracks in Audacity and mixing together... but not being an expert at this, I suspect I won't get a better result than the current way!

I'm no expert on this stuff, so I really don't know what would be the best way. I also don't know what the AvantGrand can or can't do, but you know that.

If I were doing this on my PX-5S, I would do it like this.

1. Record my playing as MIDI, nothing else. I can do that on the piano, but it's probably wiser to send the MIDI output to Notation Composer, a notation program I have, through the USB cable, plugged in at the back of the instrument.
2. Play the resulting MIDI file in Synthesia, choose the Casio PX-5S as output, and record the resulting audio in Audacity.
3. Play the same MIDI file in Pianoteq, and render it as audio.
4. Mix the two audio files in Audacity to a single stereo sound file.

It might prove to be difficult to synchronize the two audio files, so maybe your method is better! At least you've given me an idea, to see how the Casio piano voices and those of Pianoteq, mix together. Probably not as well as the AvantGrand N2 and Pianoteq.

I'd like to add, that when listening through Philips SHP1900 headphones, there was no noise to be heard, but the SHP1900 are not very accurate.

Still, most people won't listen to SoundCloud through studio headphones, but computer speakers or entry level headphones. Considering that, the recording is perfectly fine as it is. I was just playing the audiophile.