2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
71 members (Boboulus, Calavera, Billyinsocal, Beowulf, Charles Cohen, Beemer, anotherscott, Alan F, 12 invisible), 596 guests, and 442 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
TonyB #2633940 04/17/17 09:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 21
F
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by TonyB
[quote=FrostyKeys]
Yes, the course is a bit on the expensive side, but you really do get your money's worth. The course doesn't teach anywhere near everything that Duane Shinn does, but what it does teach is how to quickly play accompaniment or a solo from a lead sheet and make it sound really good. As far as I am concerned, that is EXACTLY what I want to be able to do!

Tony



If you put it in perspective, the course would be cheaper than 2-3 months worth of lessons on the low end.

This course also seems to be exactly what I am looking to do as well. I hope to have the course by this weekend. I can't wait to get started. I am going to work on the lesson 2 he has on you tube in the meantime.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2633944 04/17/17 09:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
Originally Posted by FrostyKeys


If you put it in perspective, the course would be cheaper than 2-3 months worth of lessons on the low end.

This course also seems to be exactly what I am looking to do as well. I hope to have the course by this weekend. I can't wait to get started. I am going to work on the lesson 2 he has on you tube in the meantime.


True enough. Also, though where would you find a teacher who would teach a course like this, giving similar result?

Tony



Roland V-Grand
Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2633981 04/18/17 01:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,761
N
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,761
Originally Posted by FrostyKeys


Some things I am curious about if anyone knows,

How do inversions work into these patterns?



Good question! On the one hand, Elton John observes the rules of smooth voice leading that ensures a good sound of comping ; on the other hand, he has an obvious predilection for classic major sixth chord with the third in bass.
You can understand why: 1-st inversion of major chord is most dissonant voicing from triads positions , and EJ uses it in a more intense points of melody and text.

http://www.oocities.org/thefuriousmastadon/RocketMan.pdf

Pay attention to the bars 3-4, where at first appears very tense Ab maj7, followed by a dominant, but not as seventh chord - as a sixth chord , where it appears the culmination of the phrase. In these two bars is formed next line of voicings sounds in interaction with melody : not very calm Eb with third in voice , most dissonant Abmaj7 with seventh in melody , dissonant to a lesser extent Bb/D , counterbalanced by a small melodic wave upwards ; and for a brief moment the most balanced , which immediately turns into a dissonant Gm7 with 7- th in melody .Nothing accidental, almost like in Schubert's Lieder smile .
A genius - is a genius, also in small details!


Last edited by Nahum; 04/18/17 01:08 AM.
Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2633987 04/18/17 01:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1
M
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1
Hi all,

I've been reading these forums occasionally for many years and finally decided to register to post myself. I have the same problem as many people here: hoping the perfect course exists for me somewhere and keep buying new courses. So I thought I should start giving my opinion about them here to hopefully help others decide which ones to buy, the more opinions about a course the better. This forum has helped me a lot!

I bought the David Higginson course a few years ago. I see it as a comping course, which was what I was looking for. The course is decent, but in my opinion it's way overpriced. For that price I'd really expected to learn some advanced techniques but it all stays pretty basic. I think 50 dollars would be a more realistic price for it. If you do buy it, take the rhythmic guide with it for sure, its relatively cheap compared to the main course and contains a lot more rhythmic patterns.

For myself, I have learned more about accompaniment by playing my favorite songs from sheet music and YouTube tutorials than from this course. (The website pianoplayit and the YouTube channel pianocouture are great and cost nothing). Right now I'm having a blast with a great book by Mark Harrison 'pianostyles of 23 pop masters' that only cost me 20 dollars and gives me much more accompaniment tips and tricks than the Higginson course.

Just my 2 cents!

Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2633995 04/18/17 02:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 13
B
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 13
This may be slightly off topic, as it's concerned with more getting more sophisticated jazz voicings..
But last week i bought a book- Mark Levine " How to Voice Standards at the Piano"
It's not expensive, £15 on amazon.
I've only just had a quick look over the weekend,and it does seem a bit advanced..
But basically it's a method of matching the melody to an appropriate chord voicing.
He has what's called the Menu- which gives you different options.
There are basic left hand chord positions, all rootless. either 3-5-7-9 or 7-9-3-5.
Then there are what he calls the "So What " chords, as used by Bill Evans.
Then diatonic fourth chords, chords utilising upper structures, stacked 3rds, Kenny Baron type chords.
It's definitely more advanced, but he spells out the voicing clearly, but it's up to you to transpose them into all the keys. It also goes through a song, bar by bar, illustrating the best voicing, and why.
I think it will definitely come in useful in the future,as a means of expanding from the more basic voicings ,once i am comfortable with them.


Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
Marjolein #2634013 04/18/17 04:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 634
G
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 634
Originally Posted by Marjolein
Hi all,

I've been reading these forums occasionally for many years and finally decided to register to post myself. I have the same problem as many people here: hoping the perfect course exists for me somewhere and keep buying new courses. So I thought I should start giving my opinion about them here to hopefully help others decide which ones to buy, the more opinions about a course the better. This forum has helped me a lot!

I bought the David Higginson course a few years ago. I see it as a comping course, which was what I was looking for. The course is decent, but in my opinion it's way overpriced. For that price I'd really expected to learn some advanced techniques but it all stays pretty basic. I think 50 dollars would be a more realistic price for it. If you do buy it, take the rhythmic guide with it for sure, its relatively cheap compared to the main course and contains a lot more rhythmic patterns.

For myself, I have learned more about accompaniment by playing my favorite songs from sheet music and YouTube tutorials than from this course. (The website pianoplayit and the YouTube channel pianocouture are great and cost nothing). Right now I'm having a blast with a great book by Mark Harrison 'pianostyles of 23 pop masters' that only cost me 20 dollars and gives me much more accompaniment tips and tricks than the Higginson course.

Just my 2 cents!


Thanks for sharing. Like what DMD said in another thread. Everyone is chasing "the dream" and its easy to get caught in the trap of "this next one will FINALLY reveal the secret". I really wonder if a PW member can actually lay claim to knowing little to nothing about improvisation in the beginning, but being able to improvise and play by ear after concluding some of these DVD courses. The only one I can recall is a lady who succeeded at Sudnow. Oh well, I'm sure there is value in everything and this Higginson course must be pretty good based on the glowing endorsements.

Last edited by Grandman; 04/18/17 04:16 AM.

Shigeru Kawai SK-7
Mason and Hamlin BB
Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2634016 04/18/17 04:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
It seems to me that rather than looking for a silver bullet in which one suddenly becomes the ultimate piano player, most people are looking for a certain manner of teaching the skills that person wants to achieve. It is over time and experience that a person learns how s/he is best taught and what the person needs to know to achieve his or her goals.

For some, the David Higginson (DH) will be the right approach at the right time, for others, not. One thing about the DH course is that he doesn't try to teach everything. The course is very focused. For those who want everything in one course, this course will be overpriced and disappointing. For those who are particularly interested in the skills taught in this course, the level of "hand holding" to insure that the student really does internalize the material will be worth the money. I am impressed with DH's teaching style and find it a good match for someone studying on their own.

Hopefully the discussion in this thread will provide enough real information about the course for a person reading through it to get an idea of what the course covers and then make his or her own judgement about that. To that end, all posts, positive and negative would have value.

The Sudnow method was mentioned in this thread. A number of folks gave up with that course, grappling with trying to get the various chords in hand, the memorization, and the amount of time before really seeing results. A course such as the DH course could well serve as a pre-cursor to that course. I believe that after finishing the DH course, the Sudnow learning process would go easier because the person is then already familiar with moving about the keyboard and has experience playing songs, and is now equipped to dive into more sophisticated harmonies of the Sudnow course. The two courses would fit well together.

There are all manner of books and courses, and several have come up in discussion in this thread. It can be quite difficult to sift through even the few here to decide which would work for a given student. Personally, I believe we all have different learning style, different ways of taking in information.

To me, the "bell curve" method of rating students in a classroom really has more to do with the teaching style being used, matching the learning style of the student than it does the intelligence level of the student.

People do switch piano teachers, I have seen that discussed in other sub-forums here. People will also switch methods. A number of people like to work with more than one method. In the end, it is really up to the individual. Some people will post as if there is something lacking in this or that person's way of enjoying the piano. To me, it is up to each person individually to choose their path. What is fun to one person, may seem like folly to another. The DH course is another choice, either alone or as a part of a larger picture. the same could be said for any of the books, courses, methods discussed here.

Tony



Roland V-Grand
Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2634512 04/19/17 05:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 148
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 148
One effective way to begin is by learning some basic pop and rock accompaniment patterns. Pretend that you're "in the band" and someone's singing. This is a fun way to get "up and running" and then, once you get comfortable playing in rhythm from chords, you can start adding the melody with your 3-4-5 fingers if you want to.

Good luck smile


Ron Drotos
rondrotos@keyboardimprov.com
Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
RonDrotos #2634729 04/20/17 11:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,761
N
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,761
Originally Posted by RonDrotos
One effective way to begin is by learning some basic pop and rock accompaniment patterns. Pretend that you're "in the band" and someone's singing. This is a fun way to get "up and running" and then, once you get comfortable playing in rhythm from chords, you can start adding the melody with your 3-4-5 fingers if you want to.

In other words, the key is in the preliminary study of typical rhythms and in the subsequent transfer to the keyboard; which is especially true for beginners who came from classics.

Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
RonDrotos #2634741 04/20/17 11:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,212
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,212
Originally Posted by RonDrotos
One effective way to begin is by learning some basic pop and rock accompaniment patterns. Pretend that you're "in the band" and someone's singing. This is a fun way to get "up and running" and then, once you get comfortable playing in rhythm from chords, you can start adding the melody with your 3-4-5 fingers if you want to.

Good luck smile


Thats an excellent strategy.

You can play with the best musicians/bands on the planet!

I use it also to keep fresh, and as a practice, and as an enjoyable treat.


Piano teacher.
Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2634799 04/20/17 02:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
While I agree that there are other ways (many, many ways) to learn to get around on the piano, I am REALLY learning a lot from the David Higginson course. For me, the lessons showing how to add the melody go by too fast.

What I did to remedy that was to rip the lesson I am working on (Silent Night) to an MP4 file and then run it in Transcribe! because I can slow the playback of both the audio and the video (and they remain in sync) and set loop points of small sections to go over and over until I get it all. Also, I can set measure or section markers. DH goes measure by measure explaining EXACTLY how he fingers everything AND exactly WHY.

I now realize that DH does not short change the teaching of playing solo. He gives you all the information, but does it as looking over his shoulder while he plays, explaining every step. It is all there, you just have to figure out how to slow it down and repeat as often as necessary to get it all.

For me, these answers and explanations are extremely important, and are answers that I have been looking for, for some time. I don't know why I couldn't find lessons by other folks that were just as clear and exactly on target. I guess DH was just a natural born teacher and I am VERY lucky to have had DMD recommend the course so highly.

Running through the video lesson again and again in this manner, very slowly, reminds me of the movie Contact (and the book, which was better) in which the alien broadcasts were layered, and the scientists had to uncover each layer to finally get to the plans for the travel device. Here I watch and listen to DH's explanations over and over, and the underlying logic of the fingering choices starts to become clear.

I can read sheet music and learn to play the dots easily enough, but having the logic explained to me while playing, step by step is FAR more useful, especially if I don't want to be forever "chained to the dots", which I really don't.

So that is really the value of this course to me, making it no question that (for me) it was worth the money. Whether somebody has the same interest and therefore the course holds value to that person is not something I can comment on. anybody reading my posts in this thread should understand that I can only speak for myself as I try to explain what the course provides and why that has value to me. Hopefully from that information, others can judge for themselves.

For somebody who can already make a full arrangement on the spot from a lead sheet or by ear on the piano (as the pianist on our cruise ship could, and various cocktail players in piano bars often can), this course would likely have no interest at all.

Tony

Last edited by TonyB; 04/20/17 02:41 PM.

Roland V-Grand
Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2635190 04/21/17 07:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 21
F
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 21
I am a little disappointed at the moment. I ordered the method on Monday and has still not arrived, and I paid the extra for priority shipping. Also I could swear that there was a money back guarantee on the website, but I just can't seem to find it anywhere.

For those that ordered, did you get a shipping confirmation? All I got was an order confirmation. Hope it's here tomorrow. I am looking forward to starting.

Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2635193 04/21/17 07:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
Originally Posted by FrostyKeys
I am a little disappointed at the moment. I ordered the method on Monday and has still not arrived, and I paid the extra for priority shipping. Also I could swear that there was a money back guarantee on the website, but I just can't seem to find it anywhere.

For those that ordered, did you get a shipping confirmation? All I got was an order confirmation. Hope it's here tomorrow. I am looking forward to starting.


I did not get a shipping confirmation either. However, mine arrived within a few days, considering that there was a weekend in between. I also paid the extra for priority shipping, since it really wasn't much more.

This is right from the web site (cut and paste):

Shipping Information:
We make every effort to ship your order as quickly as possible. Please allow five (5) to ten (10) business days for delivery of in-stock items. Items ordered together are not necessarily shipped together. We will notify you if any item cannot be shipped within 30 days.
We DO accept orders from outside the United States. Please contact us for details.
Guarantee, Returns & Exchanges:
We offer a 100% money-back guarantee. If you are not fully satisfied with an item and wish to return or exchange it, please return it within the 30-day guarantee period. Contact us for details.

Here is where I got it from:

http://www.pianostar.com/product_details_chord_system.php

I hope that helps...

Tony


Last edited by TonyB; 04/21/17 07:12 PM.

Roland V-Grand
Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2635195 04/21/17 07:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 21
F
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 21
Ah, thank you. I knew I saw it somewhere.

Guess I need to be a little more patient. I just had some free time tonight and tomorrow so I was looking forward to starting.

Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2635205 04/21/17 08:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
I can definitely understand that. smile

I just hope it meets your needs. Unfortunately, what is a good match for one person, may not necessarily be for another. For me, it is exactly what I have been looking for, and I am surprised that in all my looking, this course never showed up.

Tony



Roland V-Grand
Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2635219 04/21/17 10:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 634
G
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 634
Tony, did you get your chord supplement from Higgins yet? are the additional patterns discussed in the course?

Last edited by Grandman; 04/21/17 11:05 PM.

Shigeru Kawai SK-7
Mason and Hamlin BB
Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2635242 04/22/17 02:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
No, I have not gotten the chord supplement yet. I figure either it is extremely popular and they can't keep it in stock, or it is not in demand and they don't keep it around. I will probably give it another week and then send an email inquiry to them about its availability.

It could take a while if they have to order these to be printed, rather than having them stacked in some warehouse ready to go. I am suspecting that not many people buy these.

Tony



Roland V-Grand
Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2635244 04/22/17 03:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 634
G
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 634
Thanks, let us know your thoughts when you do get it.


Shigeru Kawai SK-7
Mason and Hamlin BB
Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2635250 04/22/17 04:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
I am suspecting that the chord supplement may not be particularly important because, by the time we finish the mian course, if we know anything about music theory and chord construction, we can probably figure out the rest of it ourselves. If not, there are many, many books with chord information for piano.

However, the rhythm supplement is a bit different. I think that is definitely a worthwhile supplement. This supplement comes with a CD that demonstrates each rhythm pattern briefly. They had to fit 167 patterns on one CD. But a short demonstration is really all that is needed.

I may well change my mind about the importance of the chord supplement when it comes, but there is a definite and easily understood logic to the chord patterns, if you understand how chords are built. I would also think that we would be deviating from these patterns soon enough anyway. There are so many ways to play chords and their inversions to get a certain sound.

Tony


Roland V-Grand
Re: Best way to learn pop piano?
FrostyKeys #2636445 04/26/17 06:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
T
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,505
So, after all this discussion, did anybody else follow through and order the David Higginson course and start working on it?

I can now play through an instrumental version of "Silent Night". I will continue playing that through to get it thoroughly into my hands while carefully keeping in mind how the transition from just playing the accompaniment to playing the solo was done. I am now moving on to the next song "Today".

It doesn't matter to me how long this process takes. What does matter is that I am learning to play in this style - FINALLY! Once I know that I am on the right track for where I want to go musically, that is really all that matters at this point. I don't believe the testimonials for this course are lying.

For me, the important things I am learning so far are fingering, how to play two-handed chords with movement instead of just locked hands block chords - while putting the melody on top. It is a bit like a jigsaw puzzle, fitting the melody on top and making sure all the various chord elements are played below it. It is really a "learn by doing" process that seems to be working for me.

What I am baffled about is why none of the other courses I have or have seen, seem to be able to convey all this information so straightforwardly. Given the right instruction and focus on the right things, this really isn't that complicated. What probably is complicated is for somebody who knows how to do these things, to be able to find a way to pass that knowledge on to others in a clear and efficient manner. David Higginson seems to have figured that out, thankfully.

Tony


Last edited by TonyB; 04/26/17 06:26 AM.

Roland V-Grand
Page 3 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Steinway F15 upright piano purchase
by Billyinsocal - 11/29/20 02:49 PM
Casiogp400 + vst + USB + Audio cable = buzz
by Eli26 - 11/29/20 01:33 PM
VST with Kawai CA79..how to get audio on speakers?
by LGabrielPhoto - 11/29/20 12:17 PM
Getting Back Into Piano
by JustTheQuant - 11/29/20 12:11 PM
Hi All, new player here, with a question
by MikeM70 - 11/29/20 10:40 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics203,134
Posts3,028,547
Members99,421
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4