2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
62 members (anotherscott, AWilley, accordeur, barneyh, 36251, 16 invisible), 462 guests, and 483 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
A mute point
#2627450 03/27/17 01:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 450
D
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 450
Yes, mute and not moot. As a piano tech "noob" I am just starting to assemble needed tools and think it is best to purchase on an as needed basis. I'm looking for advice on two items:

1) Mutes. Which ones and how many of each?
2) Tuning fork. I have an old one somewhere but think it is an aluminum fork, which is Is not desirable apparently. I plan to purchase the Verituner (I know the owner) eventually.

TIA for the advice


Baldwin SF-10
Petrof III
Chickering Console (1950s)
Associate Member PTG (Chicago chapter)
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: A mute point
Duke of Dunning #2627460 03/27/17 01:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 93
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 93
Here is my list of frequently used mutes:

Split Mute built from 2 Schaff #200 mutes, glued together with a 1/4 inch offset. See PTJ April 2003 tip from Mitch Kiel. (I've started carrying 2 of these, one without a wire handle.) I bend an offset into the wire handle for muting behind treble dampers.

2 rubber mutes with wire Pianotek MR-1W (Longer wire than the Schaff equivalent)

2 3" x 3/4" rubber wedge mutes Schaff 203-1/2

2 4 1/4" x 1/2" rubber wedge mutes Pianotek MR-1M

4 Felt Wedges, 2 of each size from Pianotek MF-2M and MF-2L or Schaff equivalent

1 Paps Spring Mute Pianotek MP-1 or or Schaff 207

I have a wooden mute Pianotek MJ-2 that I have only ever used on a birdcage piano.

I will often double up wedge mutes to mute a string next to a strut. The glued-together assembly mentioned above is also useful for this.


Floyd G RPT
www.floydgadd.com
Re: A mute point
Duke of Dunning #2627582 03/27/17 11:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,764
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,764
Originally Posted by Duke of Dunning
Yes, mute and not moot. As a piano tech "noob" I am just starting to assemble needed tools and think it is best to purchase on an as needed basis. I'm looking for advice on two items:

1) Mutes. Which ones and how many of each?
2) Tuning fork. I have an old one somewhere but think it is an aluminum fork, which is Is not desirable apparently. I plan to purchase the Verituner (I know the owner) eventually.

TIA for the advice
[Emphasis added]


I don't know what the objections others have to aluminum forks. But, I'll relate my experience using them.

I started out back in the 1979. I loved using aluminum forks. But, I found I had to keep replacing them all the time.

I didn't have an electronic reference. So, I would keep 3 forks on hand all the time. Every so often, I would test all 3 against each other. If any of them would start beating against the other two, I would replace it. As I remember, I was buying a new fork about every 3 or 4 months.

They are wonderful for their long sustain, though.


Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.morethanpianos.com
(semi-retired)

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
Re: A mute point
daniokeeper #2627585 03/28/17 12:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,920
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,920
Aluminum forks are loud and the tone lasts a long time, but they are much more susceptible to changes in temperature than steel forks.

I use two sets of mutes, one for uprights and another for grands. I use thinner and softer felt mutes for grands and thicker, more firm for uprights, because there is often not much room behind the strings on uprights, so I need firmer felt to stick between the strings.

I use two different sizes of rubber mutes, Schaff #200 (2-9/16 x 1/4) and #203-1/2 (3 x 3/8). For uprights, I have handles, which are available at the grocery store. They are used for trussing poultry for cooking. These are light-weight, so their weight does not pull the mutes out from the strings. I tie a ribbon to them so if they do fall out, the ribbon gets caught on something before the mute falls in the string. I use two #200 mutes for the treble where there are dampers, one above the strike point and one below. I use one #203-1/2 where there are no dampers, below a #200, and in the bass.

I use one or two #203-1/2 mute on grands. I attach them to lanyards that I picked up going to conferences, to keep them from falling into the action if they pop out. You want a lanyard with only the metal clip on it, not a swivel or anything else that can rattle. Usually one mute is enough, but you need a second for Steinway-scale concert grands, which includes Yamahas and Baldwins, where they are needed for G and G# below middle C, and sometimes for the bass trichords.


Semipro Tech
Re: A mute point
Duke of Dunning #2627604 03/28/17 02:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,764
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,764
Sometimes, you can get lucky by just using a free app.

I use a cheap $50 smart phone. Just out of curiosity, i installed a free app called Diapason. When I used it to generate A4, it was right on the money with my Verituner.

Sometimes, you get lucky.

Edit: There are also electronic tuning forks out there. You can find one at the SAT website. There are others available for purchase online.

Last edited by daniokeeper; 03/28/17 02:26 AM.

Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.morethanpianos.com
(semi-retired)

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
Re: A mute point
Duke of Dunning #2627644 03/28/17 08:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,087
M
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,087
I recommend:

4 rubber wedge mutes 1/2" wide
4 rubber wedge mutes 1/4" wide
4 handled rubber mutes
2 Papp's mutes
3 mute strips 36" long x 1/8" thick

Re:forks

Even steel forks change with temperature. I've tested mine and it changes about 1.25 cents every 10 degrees. Unless you live in a temperate climate, this could create problems. I like using the fork but I check it with iStroboSoft, especially in winter or summer where outdoor temperature can be so different.

It creates an extra problem, so for beginners, I would recommend an electronic source.

Here's a video where I demonstrate the effect of cold on a fork and how I get it to read zero cents.

https://youtu.be/CIXU4Y-E18U

Re: A mute point
Duke of Dunning #2627673 03/28/17 09:50 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,227
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,227
Using Verituner, tuning unisons as I go, and checking unisons and intervals by ear while using the program, I use:

on grands--
two regular felt mutes
one large felt mute to check unisons as I go in the treble
one large felt mute for the bass, which I only use on copper wound bass strings, to try and keep them clean (my mentor is OCD about keeping bass strings clean)
I also use a wooden hammer shank shaped like a pick at the end for tuning the last 7-8 notes of the high treble cleanly

on verticals--
two long rubber mutes
one smaller rubber mute with a handle to check unisons as I go, and for the bass
one Papp's mute

If you're going to set the temperament by ear, instead of with the assistance of an ETD, you will need a strip or more mutes.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: A mute point
Duke of Dunning #2628798 03/31/17 02:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 574
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 574
I am forever leaving my rubber mutes in the tuning pin area in grand pianos (how I fail to see them when replacing the music desk, I don't know!). So you might need 4-6 or more even though you only need two at a time. I also find the skinny wire-handled rubber mutes for uprights get worn and hard after a couple of years, so I've replaced them a couple of times over the past few years. If you get a Papps mute (which you definitely need for the treble area in uprights), make sure it's made of nylon and not plastic. I got a plastic one that broke the first time I used it. I've been using a couple of nylon ones for years and they are great.


Anne Francis
Piano Tuner-Technician

Check out my blog! www.annefrancis.ca/blog

1906 Heintzman upright (rebuilt)
Re: A mute point
Anne Francis #2628822 03/31/17 03:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,920
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,920
Another reason for the ribbons and lanyards! Rubber mutes are cheap, and cheaper by the dozen, so I buy them that way. If you cannot afford a dozen, you are undercapitalized.


Semipro Tech

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our October 2020 Free Piano Newsletter is Here!
---------------------
3,000,000+!
------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New DP under 3000 euros
by Pullman12 - 11/24/20 03:21 PM
Recording device - Recommendations
by Kinimod - 11/24/20 02:52 PM
Your opinions on my digital mixer setup
by Abdol - 11/24/20 02:37 PM
Thumb under for bluesy tunes
by AntonAnton - 11/24/20 12:45 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics203,023
Posts3,026,772
Members99,361
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4