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Joined: Jun 2014
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Hello, I am in the process of trying to upgrade my setup a bit to use with my software pianos and DAW stuffs. I have 2 sets of monitors, I have an audio interface and a setup now where I can use all four monitors, suffice it to say it is a bit cumbersome and some minor issues, though it works for now. I'll not bore you with the details. As a way forward, I am thinking of getting either the id 22, https://audient.com/products/audio-interfaces/id22/overview/which has double balanced outputs for 2 sets of monitors which can then be easily controlled with one volume dial, and a single decent headphone output, or perhaps the audient id14 and chain it up with something like this, monitor2usb The balanced outputs of the id14 I can chain up to the monitor2usb, then I can use that gadget to connect the monitors, but it means I have two boxes on my desk, it's okay it's a big table I hear quite a few positive reviews about the headphones amps in the monitor2usb, at this price point I don't expect it to be the flattest true sounding by other headphone amps standards, but as long as it is clear and clean sounding I am happy, for piano software, I expect it'll do the job just fine. If not happy I can always return it. I like the fact that it has an adjustable crosssfeed setting for headphone listening too, so I am willing to give it a shot, then I can use that gadget to connect the monitors. I already have a magni 2 head amp as well, but like to keep that for other duties. I know of one person at least that has the id14 here who also kindly sold me his older focal alpha monitors too couple of months ago ( Dire tonic ) I am very happy with thank you, may be he will chime in on the id14. How is latency in the id series ? I gather the dacs should excellent on these, and I am not that picky about latency on usb interfaces, my current setup I am perfectly happy with 128 samples. I did hear it mentioned that the audients can be quite taxing on the CPU with low latency settings compared to others, saying things like 64 samples is not doable without cracks and pops at all. I would expect however that the PC itself will also be a factor in that, in any case, how true are these rumours ? Any experiences good or bad with the audients I'd be interested hearing about, for that matter throw any other solutions/products my way for that matter you can think of to check out Probably at some point in future, my Casio will go likely, and be replaced with an MP11 second hand, or who knows an mp12 if it comes out if I am tempted enough, in fact the VPC1 is also seriously back into the picture too, but who knows what deals may come along in future. I am open minded about that for now and no rush. Thank you for any answers.
Selftaught since June 2014. Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various... Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos. 12x ABF recitals. My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
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I've never heard of Audient. Behringer generally gets poor reviews.
For the price you could choose from any number of well known audio interfaces from Presonus, Focusrite, Native Instruments, or Steinberg.
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No idea about the Audient, but the Steinberg UR28M has a similar form factor, is slightly cheaper than the id22, and looks to have more features. Steinberg are known for having some of the best drivers, so you can go down to 64 sample buffers with no problem at all (even on my rather old Core 2 system). Also the UR44 might fit the bill. I couldn't be happier with my UR22 (well, maybe if its zero-latency monitoring were in stereo it'd be perfect) - great sound quality and built like a tank. The Roland interfaces have a good rep too.
Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian, Bluethner / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
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MacMacmac thanks yes it's, true that something like a focusrite 6i6 for cheaper would do the trick, I don't believe though they are of the same quality as the audient in several areas without going into details. There is a bit of forward thinking in this as well the mic pres in the audient are excellent by all accounts. I have some acoustic instruments as well like recorders, thin whistles and a semi acoustic guitar I'd like to record with too, and will be getting an acoustic piano more than likely in the future too to record, but that is not set in stone depending on the hassle element, another story. I have heard comparisons of acoustic recordings using the audient, including piano, guitars, and they sound very good indeed, to my mind, it beats the focusrite and the commonly mentioned interfaces here in that department in that cheaper focusrite price bracket. as for behringer, yes I often heard it said about their rep, I've never owned anything behringer, it would be a a bit of a stab in the dark I admit, yet, on the overly picky zealous forums as it were, like headfi and places the monitor2usb got really some positive mention, versus others so I am curious. I wouldn't be be using the usb part of dac in the monitor2usb, which by all accounts is not that good, but simply for the monitor linkup, and headphone outputs, and for that it got praised with plenty grunt and clean distortion free to drive most cans, of which I have a few In fact, then, with 3 headphones outs in total and a fourth one possible, when my folks or friends come over for the occasional home recital I can do it at any hour at whatever volume I like and have the windows open, they can all listen on the headphones if they wanted, that would be cool.
Selftaught since June 2014. Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various... Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos. 12x ABF recitals. My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
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Also forgot to mention thanks Lolatu, I'l check out some of ones in your list, I've not heard of the UR28M at all, we crossed paths as I typed my reply to MMM.
Selftaught since June 2014. Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various... Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos. 12x ABF recitals. My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
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Joined: Jan 2010
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The UK audio hardware company Audient has been around since the 80s/90s making well respected analog audio consoles and mic pres. But nothing much a home pianist could afford for really need. A few years ago they got into doing computer audio interfaces. They sound quite good, using well selected components, and reliable drivers. That's at least my experience with them as a colleague of mine has the iD4 and is very pleased with it with a Mac and OSX. The one short coming I see, which may not be an issue - is I believe the analogue audio outs are unbalanced (most are unbalanced). Having balanced outs is helpful if you are running long cable runs to your powered monitors or just avoiding noise issues that may be present in your home's electrical. The iD22 does have balanced outs - so if you like the specs, I would go for it. But...
On OSX it's worth looking at an Apogee Duet. The ADDA conversion sounds great, the headphone amp sounds excellent, it has balanced outs and the driver software support is especially good due to their unique relationship with Apple.
If your on Windows, the iD22 looks great - even on OSX because there's a lot of features for the money, you don't quite get as much io on the Duet for about the same price.
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Thanks Elmer for the heads up, I have a good feeling about the audient 14/22, I am a windoze man but audient support both mac and windows so I am covered.
I believe if I am not mistaken since I am not interested in the id4 so much, both the 14/22 have balanced outs for monitor connection ( the dacs are not the same either in the id4, not Burr Brown, though no doubt it's still a very good bit of kit too) only the 14/22 models have the burr brown chips, plus some other things I like which will allow me to operate in a way I like and the id4 can't do that.
Overall, the design in the id4 is such that it runs solely on usb power, the id14/22 from what I know and looking into them, needs external power as well, except the id14 if not using the mic pres with phantom power, but to me that is a good sign where the resources go, and also why it has a fairly decent headphone amps too, to be able to drive higher impedance cans loud enough, there is no way the others like the focusrite 6i6 or some of others like the one I got now ( tascam us366) can do that very well.
Last edited by Alexander Borro; 03/28/17 06:33 PM.
Selftaught since June 2014. Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various... Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos. 12x ABF recitals. My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
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and btw yeah the apogee looks good, but alas it is mac only as you say, should I sell my soul one day and get a mac as well who knows :D, but windoze has never troubled me so far, I'll stick with that for now.
On the apogee I recall Paul Barton, a pianist easily found on youtube doing a run through on recording his acoustic, who has that gadget, and he swears by it for the cost. All I can say is the recordings speak for themselves, they sound very good indeed, but he also treated the room very well by the looks of it and of course using decent microphones to go with it. still he also said he consulted various setups, some much more expensive and said they could not touch with what he ended up with using the apogee.
Selftaught since June 2014. Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various... Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos. 12x ABF recitals. My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
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Yeah, the iD22 is a very well spec'd audio interface, I feel you're in good shape. They've done their homework and it's a very specific area the company has decided to focus its attention. I'd definitely consider one of these if I were in the market. I've used all sorts of computers for many years running Mac OS and Windows operating systems. The only thing that matters right now is what the current OS and motherboards are able to do. I like that Mac OS has more robust native audio and MIDI services without the need to install much in the way of additional software and drivers (except for hardware specific control software). And Apple's acquisition of eMagic/Logic years ago has resulted in the current Logic Pro and Mainstage (updated yesterday to v3.3) which is just killer - and has become industry standard (particularly in Broadway pit) for live performance with computer based software instruments, sample libraries, etc. There's a similar app on Windows called Cantible: https://www.cantabilesoftware.com that many Windows based keyboard players swear by. But Logic Pro/Mainstage is pretty compelling. I'm using the Apogee Quartet with this setup. http://www.apple.com/mainstage/
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I’m very happy with the iD14, preferring it in almost every respect to the UR22 (which I still have). The Audient is sonically more crystal to my ears although, honestly, the difference is subtle enough to be unimportant if you’re not too obsessive. The UR22 is still very good.
Latency on the iD14 betters the UR22 having two adjustable parameters; buffer size as we all know it (64, 128 samples etc.etc.), also ‘latency’ control over six levels running from min (1ms) doubling to ‘safe’ (32ms). The latency control determines the minimum buffer setting so that 64 samples is only possible with min latency. As soon as you set latency to the second level (low), your best buffer setting will be 128 samples. But as reported in Cubase and stand-alone Kontakt this equates to UR22’s best (64 samples). So the iD14 almost halves the total reported latency for the same buffer setting. I think I might have mentioned somewhere that the iD14 makes more demands on the PC but at the time I was mistakenly making a comparison between the two cards at their best setting (64/64). Clearly, the iD14’s best setting will make more demands since it achieves lower latency.
Prior to getting the Audient I’d bought some AKGk701 phones which the UR22 couldn’t drive and that was my main reason for ditching the latter. The Audient is an improvement but it’s not massive.
Functionally, the iD14 is very nice. I like that the main control is rotary for level and press-switch for immediately killing the output on either headphones or monitors.
There’s an optional mains-powered adaptor which I guess would come in handy for 48v? (I don’t use it). One minor niggle is its failure to wake from sleep perhaps 10% of the time. Removing and replacing the USB plug rarely fails to sort that out.
Pleased to hear you’re enjoying the Focals (they sound close to the Adams to me, except you got yours at 1/4 of the price!). There’s a UR22 in excellent condition here if anyone is interested.
eta: latency on Cubase ---- Kontakt all at 64 samples
ur22: 9ms (4+5) ----- 5ms (1.5+3.5) iD14: 5ms (2.5+2.5) ----- 2.5ms (1.0+1.5)
- but getting the lowest figures from the id14 will need a fast PC.
Last edited by dire tonic; 03/30/17 08:01 AM.
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Thanks so much Dire tonic, useful information. I am pretty much set. I am just dabbling the id14 versus id 22 before the pulling the trigger at some point, seeing my requirements of being able to easily handle two sets of monitors and some other things. In other words will I get the id 14 + plus a decent monitor controller for the extra outputs, or the id 22, the total would work out in a similar price range. The latency on the id14 is a bit better then on the id22 AFAIK, based on their specs, though both would be fine I think in that regard. Right now I am leaning towards the id14 with a monitor controller add on. The possible other product that may do a similar thing to the id22 is the Crimson SPL perhaps, but can't find much about it, it is fairly recent gadget. I doubt I'll go there. What I may well do first is try the monitor2usb with a balanced connection to my current interface, that does address what I want functionally in some ways, so the audient isn't essential then, apart from may be a bit of gas, sure, it is better no doubt The old tascmam I have actually ain't bad at all either, it has served me well, but it has a couple of niggles that annoy me a bit, also when connecting an extra set of monitors ( which I can only do with quite a long cable run via rca, results in some interference issues and is not the cleanest with noise levels then, however, the single balanced outs on the tascam result in a clean output, the dacs are actually reasonably good. The headphone output is pretty average, but perfectly usable with not too hard to drive phones. In any case, that setup will allow me to evaluate the monitor controller, then, If I feel like it I can tack on the audient 14 too soon after. Yes indeed, the focals were a bargain and working out well, thanks so much
Selftaught since June 2014. Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various... Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos. 12x ABF recitals. My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
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