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I'm doing repetitions of slow practice for a certain 4 bars that I'm having trouble with - I've slowed it down to a slow pace where I can get all the correct notes however between each bar there is hesitation (to safely make sure I'm drilling the correct notes into my fingers) where the arpeggios change on the left hand. Is this ok for repetition or should I slow it down to a snails pace where there are no delays whatsoever?

The latter is better. If you are having trouble stitching all four measures without hesitations, then stitch a pair. If that's difficult, then just work a few notes across the bar line. If any single measure is unstable, work that in isolation.

Over time, zoom out to a larger section.

slow practice is a tool you will work with and develop to suit your own particular needs. So I don't think there is necessarily a right or wrong way, just different ways of using it for different situations. However having said that in this case ironing out those hesitations does sound important. I am using ultra slow practice on a piece at the moment to get the fingering, hand movement and timing all solid. This requires playing RH one section of sixteenth notes at 40 bpm, (one beat per sixteenth note), and the entire piece not much faster if I want to incorporate the same section. This is incredibly slow but has that great effect you get from slow practice, where you are able to think about every detail instead of just using muscle memory.

As an aside, in August last year I started to run an experiment on a Bach Invention I was having trouble with. I could not play the piece two handed without random errors, a classic sign I was playing too fast and had not yet learned the piece deeply enough. My experiment was to not leave the piano until I got a single handed perfect run through, which of course required slowing down to the point I could not possibly make a mistake. Eventually I put the hands together and gradually increased the speed but even to this day I am trying for a perfect run through and when I don't get one I slow down until I do.

Good points, how long has your expediment been running earl of mar?

Whiz bang - the first two bars were a lot easier so I certainly put a lot more time in the second 2. I've played through all four bars now and then but I'll concentrate on that more when I can do the second two with ease.

It's quite a new rythm to me and I'm having to concentrate that hard that after 15 mins my head is done in. I therefore have done a good 5 or so short stints at this today. It's still slow but I really feel that tomorrow I will play it better. For me personally, only around 25% of the results of repetition work is immediate and the rest doesn't show until after a nights sleep. I like it though, it makes me rather excited to try again the next day.

my experiment has been running since August last year, and has now become a way of learning every new piece. I did forget to say that each perfect run through was a great confidence boost, and each success built upon itself.

It is not like I discovered anything new, it has just taken a long time for me to get to the point where I can get the most from slow practice.

As Whizbang suggests, work on eliminating the hesitation by choosing a few notes before the bar line and a few notes after the bar line.

It's not a bad idea to use various places to stop and start your slow practice. Don't always make the chunk you are practicing the first note of one measure and the last the end of a following measure.

Don't forget to use metronome once you worked out fingering...this will help how slow you can go...

There's a trick of sort of bridging between two bars. For example, play beat 4 of m. 6, to beat 1 of m. 7. Or even work backwards. Or beats 3 & 4 of m. 6 to beats 1 & 2 of m. 7, just as slowly, anticipating your chord change and the rest. If you're working on a difficult few notes, "blend in" what comes just before, and "phase out" from there to what comes right after.

(Just notice that Stubbie already wrote this idea.)

Thanks key string, I assume it would be good to try playing two mastered bars together first and then work on bridging only if it seems too difficult?

It's not a complicated part for you guys (extremely simple I'd imagine) but one persons difficult is easy to the next person and vice versa I suppose.

I slowed it down so much that it still sounded like a song, just a differant song lol

The key to iron out the hesitations is to practice those places "slow-fast". What I mean by that is that the pace of the music is really slow but whenever there is a transition you execute it as quickly as you can. For instance, let's say the hesitation is when your hand is moving from a C chord to an F chord. You should play the C chord and immediately move your hand to the F chord position, just hovering above the keys and ready to play. The point is that you have to think ahead and be ready for the next measure beforehand. But make sure that the overall tempo is really, really slow, so you have time to think.

I guarantee that after this you will no longer have those hesitations.

Scott:

From the sound of your questions and comments along the way ...

It sounds like you may be doing too much jumping around between one activity and another.

I would suggest you take the method book you have chosen (Alfred's) and begin again and take it page by page and make sure you can perform everything on each page flawlessly, on the beat (metronome ?) and in a relaxed, comfortable manner before you go to the next page. I think that will cut down on the number of questions you have and comments about things you are struggling with. If you go too fast, you will struggle with everything and eventually give up.

Just a thought.

Good Luck to you

Hi dmd

Thanks for your reply again, I remember talking to you previously.

I remember being advised on the thread to drop some of my ideas like czerny as I may be "spread myself too thin" - I came to the decision to do 15 mins of scales, 30 mins on Alfred's then another 15 mins on a whatever piece I'm working on for my enjoyment at the end.

I did this religiously until I purchased a proper digital piano (I had a 61 key unweighted keyboard then) and I was so happy to have something that sounded good that I wanted a little while to just play music and get used to the touch of weighted keys. Call it getting carried away with excitment!

Anyway I plan on getting back to my routine in a few days and will start at the beginning of Alfred's so I can take my time and improve dynamics, timing etc.

I was thinking of making my own Alfred's thread or posting links in the main Alfred's thread to my recordings to get each piece "passed off" before moving to the next. Does this seem like an idea that would work to you?

It could.

Try it. When you think you have done a very good job on something, post it and see what others think. Then you will get an idea of what is needed before moving on.

Anything that gets you to stay with something until you can call it WELL DONE. No matter how simple, you must get it exactly right before moving on. If you don't do that, you end up with lots of stuff that you can do "sort of" and that adds up to nothing as time goes on.

If I were you I would not do ANYTHING but the Alfred's method book. Do it very well.

That stuff you are doing for your enjoyment ... It probably is much too difficult for you and probably does you more harm than good. I would wait until you have experience some SUCCESS in the Alfred's method book. The Alfred's book suggests some additional material after you have gone through a few pages successfully. There is no point in fooling with other stuff until you can actually play a little bit successfully.

This concerns me a bit that this piece might be a bit too much of a stretch for you. I'm not saying you can't do it, but if it is this hard, it is possible that you lack the necessary skills needed to get this piece to where most people would be satisfied with it.

May I ask what piece it is?

FWIW, playing so slowly it sounds like a different song is about right. If there are any mistakes or hesitations or tension, however, then it's too fast.

What are the four bars you're working on slowly? Is it something we might know or that you could post an image of? We might be able to offer more advice if we knew what was causing the hesitations.

The improvements that show up after a night's sleep are the ONLY improvements. The others are just in temporary working memory. It's how you play a piece without practising it first that matters. Ask someone who's recorded their playing!

I'd also be interested to know what else you are currently doing before getting back to your previous routine, where you got that routine (if it wasn't of your own design) and where your ambitions lie in terms of the piano.

I know it may seem ridiculous to you's when I tell you what has been giving me the problems but it is bars 13-16 of nuvolé bianche - arpeggios in the left hand with a simple melody in the right hand. I did try again this morning and I was much better as I can consistently play it at 50% speed and have managed it at roughly 100% a few times although I'm not wanting rush.

Zrtf90 - for your last question - I have simply being learning nuvolé bianche to this point and I already knew the notes for moonlight sonata to bar 20 so I have been adding the dynamics. I just wanted to make some nice sounds with my new piano I guess.

I will be returning to a routine today or tomorrow. That routine was just a compromise of various suggestions in a previous thread, dmd is advising I stick solely with Alfred's for now though.

I would recommend finding some easier pieces. There are lots of arrangements of beautiful songs that are edited for beginners. Check out the showtime and Funtime series by Faber. I totally get about wanting to play something better than the Alfred's, but I think you are setting yourself up for frustration trying to play intermediate and advanced pieces as a beginner. As adults it is hard, because we know what we want to do, we understand the music, we can read it, the brain is ready to play, but the hands don't have the skills.

Reading your recent post below, your expectation of what you could learn as a complete beginner is not totally realistic. You'll do better to stay focused on Alfred Book 1 you mentioned you are starting and complete it cover to cover mastering every piece before checking back with Nuvole Bianche by Ludovico Einaudi or Fur Elise by Beethoven. Even then it would be too soon. No amount of slow practice will help nor is it productive when it is way above your current skill level.

Ideally, you should be able to sight-read and play a piece at least about half speed for it to be appropriate for your skill level. Along with being able to play it at least half speed, slow practice is a tool within that context. Don't worry, you're in good company, and plenty of people here try to learn things way over their heads all the time. The danger is that it is demoralizing when you spend enormous amount of time on something and still cannot play it; it leads to giving up. Otherwise there is no real harm if you're careful to not injure yourself while doing it. Some times, repetitive stress injuries can be serious from practicing incorrectly. Since you have a weightless keyboard, the chances of that is diminished.

Piano music, even easy sounding piano music, is actually much harder than non musical people realize, and the two pieces mentioned above are not for beginners. Welcome to the long haul. You are in good company. This experience will give you an appreciation of how hard learning piano is. Also, as soon as possible, ditch that 61-key thing and get something that has 88-keys with weighted action like a used Yamaha P95 in working condition ($350?). Until you got that, you're wasting the time you spend on a non-weighted keyboard.

8 octaves - I am definately gonna spend the vast majority of my time on perfecting Alfred's. I know I'll still tinker a little with a harder piece but for my enjoyment and not part of my routine. I just enjoy it so much.

I got a new digital piano a last week, it's a Casio px760 so it has got 88 weighted keys