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Today's video was quite long (45 minutes). The instructor, Illinca, spent quite a bit of time describing the expressive aspects of a special piece she chose that is outside of the primary method book. Since understanding the story behind a piece of music is intrinsic to expression, she first explained the background of the piece an then how each of the phrases express different parts and aspects of the story. After that, she described how different techniques can be used to express various emotions and ideas within the story and phrases.
This was quite a lot to digest and I'll be revisiting this lesson again tomorrow. In the meantime, I keep repeating most of the previous lessons and have added Bastien Level 1 to my practice since it reinforces in a complimentary manner the material I am learning in this course. I supplement the Bastien material with online demonstrations I find in YouTube.
One more thing, there are many excellent questions and answers on the forum that follow the lessons. Most date back to 2012, but all quite relevant and full of information for students such as myself.
This is Fern, who is one of the students taking the course. I practiced Tai Chi today to this beautiful rendition of the Moonlight Sonata. I was quite literally swimming in her music. I invite you to like her video if you enjoyed it as much as I did!😃
What I've noticed it's that Illinca, the instructo adjusted her lessons to suit the student body when she first began developing the course. There is a completely separate advanced course which I have not involved myself with, but even within the beginner's course, there are more advanced elements and pieces introduced, beginning with lesson 19, in order to address the advanced beginners who are taking the course and would like slightly more advanced pieces to practice.
Every lesson reveals elements of Illinca's teaching method, so it appears that all students, whether beginner, advanced beginner, intermediate or advanced, are walking through each lesson, but there are branches in the lessons for those who are more advanced.
Right now, I am studying the more advanced pieces, first bar by bar, then phrase by phrase, allowing repetition to guide me to greater skill and proficiency. I use Bastien's studies and techniques to augment and add more differences but at the same time more repetition to my daily practice. My approach is to slowly develop more and more body memory and connection between myself (including my creative mind) and my beautiful Kawai piano. I wonder if I should give it a name?
This also causes me to take the "full arm wave-like movement" of the Russian teacher, referenced by the OP above, with a grain of salt. I have watched her. She is impressive. But, I wonder if she is exaggerating the movements as an effort to teach the greater, yet more subtle, version that would be employed by a highly proficient pianist trained in those techniques. I have not, but would like, to see her performing in concert, where her sole and complete purpose would be to provide a perfect performance. It would be informative to compare her movements in actual performance to her movements in her training videos. If the teaching movements are purposeful exaggerations, it would be good for her students to know that.
Valentina Lisitsa uses exaggerated gestures when she performs, and she's clearly not in the learning phase! It's mainly a visual aid for the audience, adding drama and theatrics to the performance. Like those players who, when they hit a loud and powerful chord, they whip their head back like they just got an uppercut from Mike Tyson. Their hair flies around very dramatically and all that. Or how Lang Lang always looks like he's at the height of ecstasy when he plays. I saw a video of a woman performing Bach, and as she started playing the piece with her right hand, her left hand was stretched way above her head. How or why it got there, I do not know. But they're performers. It's theater. Guitar players practice that stuff in front of the mirror.
Middle-aged curmudgeon, started learning on Nov. 3, 2016.
To me Graham comes across as an example what would make an excellent instructor, ( at least for me I feel with the type of thing I look for ). Graham is very precise in saying everything that needs to be said, nothing more, nothing less. Sometimes, with other videos it's left to the imagination, the student has to read between the lines. Most of the time I am okay with it, because I ( try to anyway) read between the lines to get the right idea, but, you never know, this is where errors/misunderstandings can develop too. When it comes to the more subtle aspects, it could just be that one all important sentence, one word even, that could make a big difference in the end.
I like Graham Fitch too. I don't want a teacher to give me inaccurate information, even if they think they're doing it for my benefit. That's like getting a kid to eat his spinach by telling him he'll have super-strength like Popeye if he does.
But that's just me. To each their own.
Middle-aged curmudgeon, started learning on Nov. 3, 2016.
They appear to be "exaggerated" in accordance to the music which is being demonstrated, e.g. very slow portamento, legato, or staccato, for instructional purposes.
Just reading through this discussion, and this is the 2nd time you used this term, but I'm not sure it is what you mean to use. Portamento most commonly refers to a gliding between pitches or bending of pitches. It can have other uses as well, but I wonder if you meant "portato" which is more of a string term, notated as staccato and a slur at the same time, implying a long staccato if you will?
Portamento would be the range between staccato and legato. There are many different techniques that can be used within this range that the instructor demonstrates. She usually suggests playing a piece with portamento at the beginning learning stages and gradually introduce other dynamics once the student becomes familiar with the piece.
To me Graham comes across as an example what would make an excellent instructor, ( at least for me I feel with the type of thing I look for ). Graham is very precise in saying everything that needs to be said, nothing more, nothing less. Sometimes, with other videos it's left to the imagination, the student has to read between the lines. Most of the time I am okay with it, because I ( try to anyway) read between the lines to get the right idea, but, you never know, this is where errors/misunderstandings can develop too. When it comes to the more subtle aspects, it could just be that one all important sentence, one word even, that could make a big difference in the end.
I like Graham Fitch too. I don't want a teacher to give me inaccurate information, even if they think they're doing it for my benefit. That's like getting a kid to eat his spinach by telling him he'll have super-strength like Popeye if he does.
But that's just me. To each their own.
Graham Fitch's mode of teaching is not to my own personal taste. In regards to providing accurate information - well since every teacher has their own way of teaching, one can take the stance that they are all accurate or that they are all inaccurate. I prefer to take the stance that they are all different, since that would be accurate.😃
Portamento would be the range between staccato and legato. There are many different techniques that can be used within this range that the instructor demonstrates. She usually suggests playing a piece with portamento at the beginning learning stages and gradually introduce other dynamics once the student becomes familiar with the piece.
Interesting. I've never heard it used in that way before. Thanks for clarifying.
I'm wondering if what is meant is portato, because the definition matches that of portato. Also, I don't think it's dynamics, but articulation. (Hopefully to avoid confusion)
noun MUSIC 1. a slide from one note to another, especially in singing or playing a bowed string instrument. 2. piano playing in a manner intermediate between legato and staccato. "a portamento style"
Portamento is a type of articulation that can be played with a variety of dynamics which the instructor illustrates. For me learning to play the piano is all about hearing a sound inside of me and using many different techniques to manifest this sound via the gesture. The instructor often emphasized this concept since at this end it is about bringing one's own artistry to the music. It is far less about mechanics and far more about spirit.
noun MUSIC 1. a slide from one note to another, especially in singing or playing a bowed string instrument. 2. piano playing in a manner intermediate between legato and staccato. "a portamento style"
Portamento is a type of articulation that can be played with a variety of dynamics which the instructor illustrates. For me learning to play the piano is all about hearing a sound inside of me and using many different techniques to manifest this sound via the gesture. The instructor often emphasized this concept since at this end it is about bringing one's own artistry to the music. It is far less about mechanics and far more about spirit.
What you've added makes a lot more sense to me. Portamento literally means "to carry the mind", and so that can be done in a number of ways, I had not heard of it used as a means of in between legato and staccato, however.
What you've added makes a lot more sense to me. Portamento literally means "to carry the mind", and so that can be done in a number of ways, I had not heard of it used as a means of in between legato and staccato, however.
Clearly the meaning of portamento as lying between staccato and legato must be fairly widespread or it would not appear as the basic Google definition, but possibly it may be more regionalized in its usage.
I can understand derivation of this word since surely musicians, as artists, wish to convey their spirit through the music they create. I most enjoy teachers that embrace this spirit in their teachings.
Clearly the meaning of portamento as lying between staccato and legato must be fairly widespread or it would not appear as the basic Google definition, but possibly it may be more regionalized in its usage.
Morodiene is an expert teacher in the area of singing, and I studied violin for a few years - both instruments where you control pitch and can slide pitch. Even the definition you found through google has the pitch definition coming first. It is not lack of knowledge that created the confusion.
Btw, did you miss my post on portAto?
It is not puzzling that Morodiene, as a singer, thought of the usual meaning of portamento first, and had not heard of portamento being used to mean portato.
I am not disputing the use of the term "portamento" - only stressing that it is most often used to mean the sliding of a pitch, and anyone used to that term may not be familiar with the other. It is not ignorance or lack of knowledge, far from it.
Horowitz studied in Russia, and so did Neuhaus. They would not be good references for English usage. My multilingual music dictionary shows a blurring of "portato" and "portamento".
"Heinrich Gustavovich Neuhaus (Russian: ГеÌнрих ГуÑтаÌвович ÐейгаÌуз, Genrikh GustavoviÄ Nejgauz; 12 April [O.S. 31 March] 1888 – 10 October 1964) was a Soviet pianist and pedagogue of German extraction." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Neuhaus
Music is an international language practised internationally but described in many languages, so there will always be some confusion of terminology.
I can understand derivation of this word since surely musicians, as artists, wish to convey their spirit through the music they create. I most enjoy teachers that embrace this spirit in their teachings.
In this case it is not spirit but precision. In an instrument where you can create pitch and sustain a note, you can hold that pitch or change it after producing it. One way is a long sustained slide called glissando or "gliss", the other is a more brief kind of sob which is the portamento. there is a specific word used to describe that desired pitch effect.
Then you have the articulations - the ultra sharp staccato that lasts only a tiny point of time, with big spaces between notes on the one hand, and legato at the other extreme where one note almost blends into the next, and there is no separation --- and in between. The portato of violin or piano cannot be duplicated on piano, but something close to it can be produced. It's sort of the fine line between legato and the beginning of staccato. This too is a definite thing rather than something vaguely about feelings.
... Right now, I'm studying gestures more costly. I just finished a video that delves into the subject more deeply. Gestures (movements) mad are always congruent with the music sound, rhythm, and dynamics desired
I think the above statement should end with the sound desired and perhaps what is meant.
It just all seems like a lot more to think about, to me. There is already a lot to think about, just with the music. I believe, that if you focus on the sound you want to produce, the gestures will take care of themselves. Not the other way around.
The way I was taught, fingering wasn't considered highly important, was never fussy or much discussed. Gestures not at all. What was always important though, was the sound. How to bring out the melody or move from here to here quickly and softly, which may have included a tad bit of fingering. Listening closely for the sound was always the focus.
There is surely value in exaggerated movements and exaggerated everything for teaching purposes, but I do not agree with focusing on physical movements to get the sound. Find the sound and once you have found it, repeat it and practice it to secure the gestures you need to achieve it. If you want to get fancy after that for visual flair that's fine as you've already secured the sound. The end product may all look as one, but personally i think the approach is backwards. But, then again, maybe mine was.
... Right now, I'm studying gestures more costly. I just finished a video that delves into the subject more deeply. Gestures (movements) mad are always congruent with the music sound, rhythm, and dynamics desired
I think the above statement should end with the sound desired and perhaps what is meant.
It just all seems like a lot more to think about, to me. There is already a lot to think about, just with the music. I believe, that if you focus on the sound you want to produce, the gestures will take care of themselves. Not the other way around.
The way I was taught, fingering wasn't considered highly important, was never fussy or much discussed. Gestures not at all. What was always important though, was the sound. How to bring out the melody or move from here to here quickly and softly, which may have included a tad bit of fingering. Listening closely for the sound was always the focus.
There is surely value in exaggerated movements and exaggerated everything for teaching purposes, but I do not agree with focusing on physical movements to get the sound. Find the sound and once you have found it, repeat it and practice it to secure the gestures you need to achieve it. If you want to get fancy after that for visual flair that's fine as you've already secured the sound. The end product may all look as one, but personally i think the approach is backwards. But, then again, maybe mine was.
Yes, what I said, and what the instructor emphasizes, is that the sound comes first and manifests as a gesture. She then demonstrates the various gestures that one might use, but in practice the are literally an infinite number of infinite gestures that manifest. Ditto with Tai Chi, dancing, drawing, etc. And if the gestures are large and dynamic and reflect the spirit of the artist, so be it. That is the nature of artistry. First comes imagination and physical gesture follows.
I can understand derivation of this word since surely musicians, as artists, wish to convey their spirit through the music they create. I most enjoy teachers that embrace this spirit in their teachings.
In this case it is not spirit but precision. In an instrument where you can create pitch and sustain a note, you can hold that pitch or change it after producing it. One way is a long sustained slide called glissando or "gliss", the other is a more brief kind of sob which is the portamento. there is a specific word used to describe that desired pitch effect.
Then you have the articulations - the ultra sharp staccato that lasts only a tiny point of time, with big spaces between notes on the one hand, and legato at the other extreme where one note almost blends into the next, and there is no separation --- and in between. The portato of violin or piano cannot be duplicated on piano, but something close to it can be produced. It's sort of the fine line between legato and the beginning of staccato. This too is a definite thing rather than something vaguely about feelings.
One can seek precision in art if one wishes. It is the difference between Rembrandt and Monet - both seeking precision in their own manner.
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