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So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) #2621674
03/08/17 08:48 PM
03/08/17 08:48 PM
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piano_primo_1 Offline OP
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I’ve been practicing say, about 8 or 9 years, . I think I suck at piano, should I continue?
Well, YES…never know what might happen
Besides it depends on who is listening....... grin(it's thier fault!
P.S. or maybe I learned more about tempo, exactness etc... which is good! So, it could be me!

Last edited by piano_primo_1; 03/08/17 08:54 PM. Reason: additional text info

Cheers!!!

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Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2621685
03/08/17 09:13 PM
03/08/17 09:13 PM
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If you enjoy it, then yes. If not, then don't bother. smile


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Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: Morodiene] #2621692
03/08/17 09:29 PM
03/08/17 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
If you enjoy it, then yes. If not, then don't bother. smile



Piano music yes,_ and I enjoy playing. So I guess it improves…somehow…. with a realization of possibility, practice.. etc etc …
Because there are pieces I play well…and I like ..
Sort of like, wanting what you have, than having what you wantGOT!
(Sheryl Crow)










Cheers!!!

Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2621709
03/08/17 11:11 PM
03/08/17 11:11 PM
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but I bet you are really good at practising by nowsmirk

for most of us there will come a time when we have to face some reality, how we handle it is what defines us.


Problems with piano are 90% psychological, the other 10% is in your head.

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Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: earlofmar] #2621720
03/09/17 12:38 AM
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I'm closing in on five years. I'm not very good, not by any objective measures. I do enjoy what little I can do, in small doses. So I'll keep at it, but lack the energy and enthusiasm of some of the early years.

There is a thread on another section about chess, math and piano. Many chess players will eventually reach a plateau as far as rating (aka skill level). From the plateau, moving up requires a tremendous effort. For some chess players, the major effort has already been made, and he/she is not likely to get significantly better. They have already put in the time, used good methods, and are near their potential.

Thinking out loud, this is likely true for a lot of activities. Golf, tennis, chess, running, swimming come to mind. If a person has already made a major effort, with decent methods, over a signficant length of time, he/she may be unlikely to get signficantly better, by any objective measures.

Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2621734
03/09/17 02:06 AM
03/09/17 02:06 AM
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I've been playing for roughly 7-8 years, but not consecutively, so I'm at an intermediate-ish level. There have been times when I wanted to quit yet again, such as when I hear people say I'll never be as good as my sister (she started about the same time I did) no matter how much I practice. People told me my technique is not good, etc. etc. However, I keep doing this because it is what I want to do, it is what makes me happy.

So, if piano makes you happy, keep going. Do it because of yourself and for yourself. If there is some other thing you want to pursue, by all means go ahead! Just ask yourself, will you regret it if you stop playing piano? When I temporarily quit piano, I did not regret it, still don't, it turned out to be a much needed break and I came back with renewed passion.

Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2621735
03/09/17 02:08 AM
03/09/17 02:08 AM
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I think you're being hard on yorself here. You're playing complex stuff, there's much to appreciate on this journey you took.
We all plateau at times, regather our strength and drive, and . . head for the summit!
Don't settle for a plateau. It's a place of despondancy.
The ABF recitals have been instrumental in assisting loads of us to reach hitherto unimagined personal bests, myself included, (you get 6 months to practice your piece,) and i been playing a lot longer than you.
Have a rest by all means.
But DON'T sell your piano. You'll regret it if you do.

Last edited by peterws; 03/09/17 02:12 AM.

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Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2621763
03/09/17 04:35 AM
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The beautiful thing about piano is that even if you reach a plateau in terms of your playing ability, there is so much wonderful music to learn. Progress continues by expanding your repertoire.

But for the vast majority of us, chances are there are ways for us to move past a seeming plateau.

The tricky bit is figuring out if we just need to keep doing what we are doing and be patient ("Rome wasn't built in a day"), or if we need to change things up and try different approaches ("The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result")

Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: barbaram] #2621772
03/09/17 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by barbaram
The beautiful thing about piano is that even if you reach a plateau in terms of your playing ability, there is so much wonderful music to learn. Progress continues by expanding your repertoire.

But for the vast majority of us, chances are there are ways for us to move past a seeming plateau.

The tricky bit is figuring out if we just need to keep doing what we are doing and be patient ("Rome wasn't built in a day"), or if we need to change things up and try different approaches ("The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result")


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Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2621786
03/09/17 06:24 AM
03/09/17 06:24 AM
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Quote
P.S. or maybe I learned more about tempo, exactness etc... which is good! So, it could be me!


Yep, playing a tune like you want it to sound that moment by varying rhythm, etc. plus forgetting about exactness sounds like an intriguing path to investigate. Trying to play a piece the exact same way every time might make a dead composer happy though. grin

Last edited by Rerun; 03/09/17 06:30 AM.

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Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: Sand Tiger] #2621788
03/09/17 06:32 AM
03/09/17 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Sand Tiger
I'm closing in on five years. I'm not very good, not by any objective measures. I do enjoy what little I can do, in small doses. So I'll keep at it, but lack the energy and enthusiasm of some of the early years.

There is a thread on another section about chess, math and piano. Many chess players will eventually reach a plateau as far as rating (aka skill level). From the plateau, moving up requires a tremendous effort. For some chess players, the major effort has already been made, and he/she is not likely to get significantly better. They have already put in the time, used good methods, and are near their potential.

Thinking out loud, this is likely true for a lot of activities. Golf, tennis, chess, running, swimming come to mind. If a person has already made a major effort, with decent methods, over a signficant length of time, he/she may be unlikely to get signficantly better, by any objective measures.


I find this to be true for many activities I've dabbled at. Once I reach a level I'm personally happy with I then find it hard to find the motivation to continue striving for further incremental improvement. But I rarely give up on the activity as a result of reaching a plateau, I simply enjoy it at the level I was able to achieve without going berserk with increased effort.

I guess it comes down to setting realistic goals in the first place relative to the time and effort you are willing to devote to achieving them. If I said I wouldn't be happy unless I reached the level of a classical concert pianist, then I would never ever be happy.


Roland GP-607
Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2621821
03/09/17 08:13 AM
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Recently I returned to piano after almost selling my Kawai upright. It was a totally new experience for me. I credit it to my increased understanding of drawing and Tai Chi. The beauty is in the gesture. The movement that creates a single tone, with shading and expression that you might love. It is exactly the same with all of the arts.

The ability to play fast and complicated pieces is both a skill (absolutely not necessary to enjoy playing the piano) and a business thing (keeps the music industry in business). But this aside, anyone can enjoy playing piano if they do it for the beauty and enjoyment of the music that is created with each quiet gesture. But the gesture should be relaxed and full of expression as a single dance movement.

Last edited by Richrf; 03/09/17 08:53 AM.
Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2621835
03/09/17 08:44 AM
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If you love to play piano, keep on doing it. I may not be good, but I love the piano and the sounds it makes.


Always working to improve "Chopsticks". I'll never give up on it.
Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2621836
03/09/17 08:45 AM
03/09/17 08:45 AM
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I guess at times everyone feels they “have to” give a voice to their most negative internal critic.
Well ,yesterday was “my time”
But in spite of how I perceive my progress , I realize overall it’s positive to play or keep a personal goal and hobby.


Cheers!!!

Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: Richrf] #2621858
03/09/17 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Richrf
Recently I returned to piano after almost selling my Kawai upright. It was a totally new experience for me. I credit it to my increased understanding of drawing and Tai Chi. The beauty is in the gesture. The movement that creates a single tone, with shading and expression that you might love. It is exactly the same with all of the arts.

This is beautiful, Richrf.


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Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2621865
03/09/17 10:01 AM
03/09/17 10:01 AM
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I liken piano progress to taking a hike up a mountain. You are going up a slight incline, but the trees prevent you from seeing just how far up you've come. Once in a while, there's a break in the trees and you can see the vista, but most of the time you simply have to trust that you're making progress. You just have to keep your eyes on the path in front of you until the next vista comes along.

And with anything, the more you know, the more you realize how little you know. I don't think I'll ever stop learning about piano, but there are certainly things that take away from my progress - things that I choose to do instead with the energy I have. Perhaps when I've exhausted these other outlets (singing and composing), piano will become primary, but for now, I'm satisfied with whatever progress I can make with the time and energy I have.

Piano will be there for me when I'm ready to focus on it again, Lord willing.


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Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: PianoStudent88] #2621868
03/09/17 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by PianoStudent88

This is beautiful, Richrf.


Thank you.

Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2621995
03/09/17 05:36 PM
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I attended the local symphony a few weeks ago and heard Stephen Hough. I have NO illusions about every sounding anything remotely like this--not even in the same stratosphere! But, I really don't find that too discouraging. When I play, I enjoy it--I enjoy practicing and I love the whole process. As someone said on this forum, it is "me time". I never play for others, it is something I do just for me.



Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2622011
03/09/17 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by piano_primo_1
I’ve been practicing say, about 8 or 9 years, . I think I suck at piano, should I continue?

When I was a student, I sucked at lots of things grin.

The things I didn't particularly care for (sports, and anything resembling physical exertion), I discarded at the earliest opportunity. Those that I loved - piano, singing in the choir - I kept plugging at, purely for enjoyment. Mine, that is. I always had a healthy disregard for 'peer pressure' (I delighted in being 'different' wink ), and for other people's opinions of me. And I never envied other students - instead, I admired those who were better than me (which was most of them), and always lent my support to those few brave enough to perform in the school lunchtime recitals. Their playing gave me something to aspire to.

So what if my progress at piano was slower than a snail's? I enjoyed playing - for myself. Others can stick to their hero worship of various soccer teams and kick spherical objects around; I'll tickle the (non-ivory) ivories and play what I want. (As well as what my teacher wanted of course - I also wished to keep improving year by year.....).


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: Richrf] #2622025
03/09/17 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Richrf
Recently I returned to piano after almost selling my Kawai upright. It was a totally new experience for me. I credit it to my increased understanding of drawing and Tai Chi. The beauty is in the gesture. The movement that creates a single tone, with shading and expression that you might love. It is exactly the same with all of the arts.

The ability to play fast and complicated pieces is both a skill (absolutely not necessary to enjoy playing the piano) and a business thing (keeps the music industry in business). But this aside, anyone can enjoy playing piano if they do it for the beauty and enjoyment of the music that is created with each quiet gesture. But the gesture should be relaxed and full of expression as a single dance movement.


I too have studied martial arts extensively, taiji most recently, and this is so true! The beauty is in the gesture. Yes!
My instructor teaches gesture and choreography at the keyboard, and there are definite parallels.

Speaking of gesture, check out Piano2138's contribution to the last adult recital. Those gestures are just wonderful, and the playing is fantastic.

To speak to the original topic, I will never be a professional, but I can always be a bit better, day by day, and the journey is golden for me.


Last edited by Forrest Halford; 03/09/17 07:20 PM. Reason: martial arts, not martial rats

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Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2622031
03/09/17 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by piano_primo_1
I’ve been practicing say, about 8 or 9 years, . I think I suck at piano, should I continue?
Well, YES…never know what might happen
Besides it depends on who is listening....... grin(it's thier fault!
P.S. or maybe I learned more about tempo, exactness etc... which is good! So, it could be me!


The fact that you presented this topic suggests (to me) that you are in dire need of direction. You are what I call "floundering".

It happens to me periodically, also. I get to a point where I lose a sense of real progress. I feel that I am just practicing "stuff" without real purpose.

That is where a teacher can help, immensely.

For some time, I have been engaging the assistance of a teacher once a month through the use of Skype. He has been very helpful in keeping me on track with a sense of what I should do next.

I think you could benefit from a teacher working with you periodically to just discuss things with you and giving you that little nudge of motivation.

Learning to play the piano can be very discouraging when things do not go as you had envisioned. And ... of course, it never does. A teacher can help get you through some tough moments.

Just a thought.

Good Luck to you.


Don

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Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2622079
03/09/17 10:21 PM
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I've been playing for almost two years, and a couple of things keep it wonderful for me.

First, I have a love of excellence, and as importantly, the pursuit of it. I love getting better, and getting better is on the path to getting excellent. I get a lot of joy and satisfaction from doing something as well as I could have at the moment I did it. So, the fact that I have not yet achieved an objective standard of excellence at piano is just not any kind of problem for me.

Second, I have accepted that along my journey I will continually be at a point of not being as good as I will become, but better than I was before. So, some contentment is in order, always. To keep the beauty of music around me all the time, I spend considerable time exploring YouTube and the local book stores for interesting, enjoyable, and beautiful music to play and listen to. I have found many little treasures, within or just beyond my limited playing ability, and I have countless happy hours learning and enjoying them.

Third, and related to the second, play music that you love! Play music that you love! And, play music that you love! If standard repertoire doesn't excite you, do yourself a favor and move away from it, and toward music that does excite you. You deserve it!

Good luck finding a happy way to piano! smile


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Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: Forrest Halford] #2622082
03/09/17 10:25 PM
03/09/17 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Forrest Halford
[

I too have studied martial arts extensively, taiji most recently, and this is so true! The beauty is in the gesture. Yes!
My instructor teaches gesture and choreography at the keyboard, and there are definite parallels.

Speaking of gesture, check out Piano2138's contribution to the last adult recital. Those gestures are just wonderful, and the playing is fantastic.

To speak to the original topic, I will never be a professional, but I can always be a bit better, day by day, and the journey is golden for me.



Hi,

Can you provide a link to the recital that you are referring to. I can't locate it. Thanks!

Yes, the route is from hearing the music that one wishes to express and emote it through the gesture and then through the instrument. It is a wonderful feeling.

Last edited by Richrf; 03/09/17 10:25 PM.
Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2622093
03/09/17 11:04 PM
03/09/17 11:04 PM
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All of the comments are well taken, thanks for the encouragement.
I appreciate the realistic views that should accompany a negative ‘take” on piano study.
As most of you said in so many words.. i.e.
The playing of piano is more of a process than a static one time event.
-that is important to keep in mind when continuing a study of piano or any instrument or goal.
Yet, it’s also good to hear that advice from others , even if it seems obvious, because that realistic and positive attitude seems to gets lost when you to be going along the way.


Cheers!!!

Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: Richrf] #2622095
03/09/17 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Richrf


Hi,

Can you provide a link to the recital that you are referring to. I can't locate it. Thanks!

Yes, the route is from hearing the music that one wishes to express and emote it through the gesture and then through the instrument. It is a wonderful feeling.


here ya go... she/he is #21 on the roster

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2614487/all/Recital_45__---__February_15,_.html


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Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2622098
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Thanks!

Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: piano_primo_1] #2622884
03/12/17 03:09 AM
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In the mountains of NC
It's only after you've advanced from "practicing" to "playing" that you'll trully be able to recognize, understand, and appreciate the difference between the two.

Getting there is a journey than many have difficulties traversing and completing.

Best wishes in getting there!

Regards,
Andy


1979 Yamaha C7D - Yamaha P115 - Korg MicroKORG synth. - Korg Kaossilator Pro synth.
Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: barbaram] #2623399
03/13/17 05:29 PM
03/13/17 05:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,555
Reseda, California
J
JohnSprung Offline
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JohnSprung  Offline
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J

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,555
Reseda, California
Originally Posted by barbaram
("The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result")


Um, OK .....

But what if you actually *get* a different result? ;-)

I've had that happen recently. I've only had time to play the same ol' stuff for a few months, and I'm making objectively far fewer mistakes, and subjectively playing with better expression. Learning works that way, especially with physical skills.

(BTW, I'm not actually good. It's still basic cocktail bar stuff, and could use a lot of embellishment.)



-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: Morodiene] #2623400
03/13/17 05:32 PM
03/13/17 05:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,555
Reseda, California
J
JohnSprung Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
JohnSprung  Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
J

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,555
Reseda, California
Originally Posted by Morodiene
And with anything, the more you know, the more you realize how little you know.


That's for sure. There was a time when I actually thought I was good.... ;-)



-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: So, when you realize….(a li'l rant) [Re: Forrest Halford] #2623642
03/14/17 01:22 PM
03/14/17 01:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 673
Bowling Green, KY
F
Forrest Halford Offline
500 Post Club Member
Forrest Halford  Offline
500 Post Club Member
F

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 673
Bowling Green, KY
Originally Posted by Forrest Halford
Originally Posted by Richrf


Hi,

Can you provide a link to the recital that you are referring to. I can't locate it. Thanks!

Yes, the route is from hearing the music that one wishes to express and emote it through the gesture and then through the instrument. It is a wonderful feeling.


here ya go... she/he is #21 on the roster

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2614487/all/Recital_45__---__February_15,_.html


I meant PikaPianist... #46 on the roster... gestures are wonderful!


PTG Associate Member
Haydn Hob. XVI: 23 in F major
Debussy Arabesque #1, Reverie
Bach BWV 874, 883
My beliefs are only that unless I can prove them.

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