Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyers Guide
Who's Online
128 registered (36251, Albunea, Almaviva, accordeur, Alexander Borro, agraffe, 28 invisible), 2337 Guests and 30 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2621297 - 03/07/17 11:32 PM Stride Hanon
john f Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 265
Loc: thailand
I have a book Stride Hanon by Peter Deneff, published by Hal Leonard.

Is this a good study to work on a little at a time or is it a waste of time? It seems to me that it might be good because the left hand does get quite a workout when playing ragtime or stride and could use some building up. What do you think?

Top
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2621508 - 03/08/17 01:09 PM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
Greener Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014


Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 2107
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I've not used the book and therefore cannot vouch for it, but my general feeling is that anything published by Hal Leonard is good.

My personal preference has always been repertoire over exercises, but also realize you need to start somewhere too. Guided instruction is good if it is at a correct pace for you and introduces material that you also like. Rag stride can be quite different then other types of stride, so would just be careful not to mix up too much in the beginning and so guided instruction (such as this) could help by introducing various types at the right time. i think.

Top
#2621715 - 03/09/17 12:14 AM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
john f Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 265
Loc: thailand
That brings up another question. Where can I find a detailed explanation of the differences between rag stride and stride? Something that has notes and instructions. So far the only differences I can tell or find is that ragtime l.h. stays closer most of the time to the middle of the keyboard and stride reaches down on 1st and 3rd beat to the lower end of the keyboard. Plus stride tries to travel at break neck speed whereas rag sort of strides along at a decent pace. I am sure that there is many more differences.

Another thing I have noticed is that some stride players play left hand stride and right hand whatever. Especially when playing pop song melodies with little or no improvisation. And very little syncopation, anticipation. What do you call that? Seems to be a lot of different ways that things are done.

Top
#2621719 - 03/09/17 12:38 AM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
Whizbang Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 1458
Originally Posted By john f
That brings up another question. Where can I find a detailed explanation of the differences between rag stride and stride? Something that has notes and instructions. So far the only differences I can tell or find is that ragtime l.h. stays closer most of the time to the middle of the keyboard and stride reaches down on 1st and 3rd beat to the lower end of the keyboard. Plus stride tries to travel at break neck speed whereas rag sort of strides along at a decent pace. I am sure that there is many more differences.


I think there's a YouTube video by Dick Hyman that you can find. Also search for "Dick Cavett Oscar Peterson" for a cool interview that was apparently never aired.
_________________________
Whizbang
amateur ragtime pianist
https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeschala

Top
#2621859 - 03/09/17 09:52 AM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
Greener Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014


Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 2107
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By john f
... So far the only differences I can tell or find is that ragtime l.h. stays closer most of the time to the middle of the keyboard and stride reaches down on 1st and 3rd beat to the lower end of the keyboard. Plus stride tries to travel at break neck speed whereas rag sort of strides along at a decent pace. I am sure that there is many more differences.

Don't know much about rag yet, but my observation is that it is very fussy about what notes to play where and when. The difference though, could be between reading a complete score vs. a lead sheet.

I am working on a Joplin piece currently and working on the sections in reverse order. The stride is broken with accents in it. So, bass note, accent note, top of chord (a 3rd or 6th but not much in it) and then back to bass note again. But, could be octave lower. Once you know exactly what notes they want, it is actually easier then what I will call lead sheet stride because the LH is either single note, or 2 note harmony. Not, 2 note harmony bass and full harmony at top of the chord as I would normally play in most lead sheet arrangements using stride.

However, it is rag that I have found can sometimes be very fast, so these exact combinations do not come easy. In same tempo pieces though, the rag stride is fewer notes from what I have found. Could it just be my arrangement? No, I don't think so. I have viewed several performances of the same piece on youtube and they are all using same arrangement.


Top
#2621873 - 03/09/17 10:24 AM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
john f Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 265
Loc: thailand
So far I could only find Dick Cavett Oscar Peterson Interview in 1979. 7 minutes. I watched several Dick Hyman numbers. Really not much help from either one. There may be other vides but I could not find them.

Top
#2622117 - 03/10/17 01:07 AM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
Nahum Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/27/14
Posts: 1876
Loc: Israel
Originally Posted By john f
That brings up another question. Where can I find a detailed explanation of the differences between rag stride and stride? Something that has notes and instructions.
In the book of John Valerio "Stride and Swing piano"
https://www.amazon.com/Stride-Swing-Piano-Leonard-Keyboard/dp/0634046632

Top
#2622145 - 03/10/17 04:23 AM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
fatar760 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/16
Posts: 105
Loc: London
How odd to see this thread as I recently commented on such a book:

"I've had the misfortune of purchasing a couple of these "new wave" of Hanon books. One of them is called Jazz hanon by Leo Alfassy and the other Stride Hanon by Peter Deneff.

I appreciate that these may not be the ones that have been spoken about in this thread but it seems to me that similar problems have arisen - notably that of fingering.

When I buy a book, based on the original meticulous Hanon exercises, I expect those wanting to embrace and capitalise on the Hanon name, to follow suit.

The fact that both books I have mentioned lack in any kind of fingering clarification, appears to me lazy and not keeping in the spirit of Hanon or, indeed, the majority of technique books that claim to improve ones playing.

Fingering can be a very subjective field but surely it's down to the authors of these books to offer some guidance? Or are they content just writing out 50 or so exercises and then flogging them to hopeful scholars looking for direction and improvement?"

Top
#2622201 - 03/10/17 09:55 AM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
Hidden son of Teddy Wilson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 153
Originally Posted By john f

Where can I find a detailed explanation of the differences between rag stride and stride?

So far the only differences I can tell or find is that ragtime l.h. stays closer most of the time to the middle of the keyboard and stride reaches down on 1st and 3rd beat to the lower end of the keyboard.


In my view: there's "ragtime", and there's "stride piano" (there is no "rag stride").

Ragtime is the music of Scott Joplin, Joseph Lamb, James Scott, etc, etc. It is composed, meant to be played as written, and usually has sections and interludes.

Stride piano is the music of James P. Johnson, Fats Waller, Willie the Lion, Donald Lambert, etc. It comes from ragtime, so early stride pieces are composed, have sections and interludes, but they are sometimes played a little looser, with variations. For examples, James P. Johnson recorded his Carolina Shout several times, and other pianists as well, and they are all different, sometimes just a little bit, sometimes quite different. Also stride piano is a style, you can take any song and play it in the stride style. Dick Wellstood recorded Giant Steps, Donald Lambert did a few classical pieces.

In ragtime the left hand, as you mentioned, does not travel as much. The bass note is higher than in stride, and the chord is lower. Also in ragtime the bass note is often an octave. In stride the bass note is usually a single note, far down, and the chord is higher up, giving a sound that is less muddied.

In stride piano, the left hand often has tenths in the bass, especially on medium tempos, those tenths can be broken upwards or downwards. Also some players "mess with the rhythm". Fats Waller doesn't do it that much, but James P. Johnson does it a lot. Things like oom-oom-pah-oom, or suspending the left hand for a while. Listen to his Liza on YouTube.

Stride piano is a style where the right hand is important too. Just because you're playing oom-pahs in the left hand (the so called "stride bass") doesn't mean you're playing the stride piano style. Stride incorporated blue notes and dissonance that ragtime does not have. This can be heard in Carolina Shout (one of the earliest stride pieces), and it is known that Thelonious Monk was inspired by James P. Johnson (as was Duke Ellington).
In the right hand, there's a certain way of syncopating the medody, characteristic figures in thirds, etc. That is all part of the stride piano style, and to me, playing a stride bass with bebop lines is perfectly doable, but it's not "stride piano" per se, it's... well, it's bebop lines with a stride bass.

Originally Posted By john f

Plus stride tries to travel at break neck speed whereas rag sort of strides along at a decent pace. I am sure that there is many more differences.


Tempos in stride can be faster than in ragtime, for sure, but there are lots of stride pieces at medium or slow tempos

Originally Posted By john f

Another thing I have noticed is that some stride players play left hand stride and right hand whatever.
Especially when playing pop song melodies with little or no improvisation. And very little syncopation, anticipation. What do you call that? Seems to be a lot of different ways that things are done.


Then it's "whatever" on top of a stride bass, but not stride piano.

Hope this helps.

Top
#2622203 - 03/10/17 09:58 AM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
john f Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 265
Loc: thailand
Stride Hanon by Peter Deneff is the book that I have. I started this thread to see if it was better to shelf the book or use it. I also have the Scott Joplin school of ragtime - a little advanced for me but not too much. My main problem is I never before learned to read bass cliff. Working on it now.

Top
#2622245 - 03/10/17 12:19 PM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
Whizbang Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 1458
_________________________
Whizbang
amateur ragtime pianist
https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeschala

Top
#2622250 - 03/10/17 12:45 PM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
Hidden son of Teddy Wilson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 153
I forgot to mention that in stride piano bass lines often form a richer counter melody (and also the upper note of the tenth if tenths are being used).
And I also forgot to mention the swing 8ths ! Well there's a lot more to say anyway...

Top
#2622259 - 03/10/17 12:51 PM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
fatar760 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/16
Posts: 105
Loc: London
Originally Posted By john f
Stride Hanon by Peter Deneff is the book that I have. I started this thread to see if it was better to shelf the book or use it. I also have the Scott Joplin school of ragtime - a little advanced for me but not too much. My main problem is I never before learned to read bass cliff. Working on it now.


Can I ask what you make of the lack of fingering in the book? And what solutions are you coming up with in their absence?

Top
#2622504 - 03/11/17 01:31 AM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
john f Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 265
Loc: thailand
Lack of fingering never bother me in any book. I was taught to work out the best fingering I was capable of and stick with it. Not to change fingering on a piece every time I played it. I usually got suggested fingering from my instructor, but not always. I have just looked through the book. So far I have not tried to play any of it.

Top
#2622520 - 03/11/17 02:50 AM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
john f Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 265
Loc: thailand
Thanks wizebang, I just watched that vid.

Top
#2622523 - 03/11/17 03:02 AM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
john f Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 265
Loc: thailand
I do not know what my music will be called after I learn more about jazz, but, I do not think it will be called any kind of jazz or stride/ragtime for that matter.

I like to be able to hear and recognize the melody of the song I am playing. Adding some jazz licks and dressing up the melody is fine as long as the melody is still there. I will probably use the l.h. stride or ragtime movements as well as other stuff I know for l.h. I do like the overall sounds that come from playing l.h. as stride and ragtime players play it, but at a slower speed.

However, to play anything at a fast break neck speed, to me is just noise. I like Maple Leaf Rag at around 120 bpm and The Entertainer at a slower pace yet. March tempo is 120 bpm.

Top
#2627042 - 03/26/17 04:04 AM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
Nahum Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/27/14
Posts: 1876
Loc: Israel
I came to the conclusion that the usual Hanon is more useful for jazz pianists than for classical pianists: there are various melodic patterns that diversify the melodic line in tonal improvisation.

Top
#2627597 - Today at 02:29 AM Re: Stride Hanon [Re: john f]
Charles Cohen Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 3514
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By john f
. . .

I like to be able to hear and recognize the melody of the song I am playing. . . .


TV-history note:

One of the people in Sid Caesar's jazz band was the "radar man". His job was to ensure they didn't get too close to the melody.

It takes all kinds . . .
_________________________
. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker

Top

Moderator:  sharpsandflats 
Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.
Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
A. Geyer Pianos
A. Geyer Pianos
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Whole step-Half step scale fingering
by Tango
03/28/17 02:48 PM
Any audient id14/22 audio interface users ?
by Alexander Borro
03/28/17 02:20 PM
Baby Grand, Opinions Welcome
by upbeat
03/28/17 02:12 PM
Just bought GHS piano
by Oreki
03/28/17 12:49 PM
Humidifier
by Brian Young
03/28/17 12:19 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Forum Stats
87,159 Registered Members
44 Forums
178,639 Topics
2,610,692 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission