Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum My student comes in with a piece....

It's not legato, so not a stretch (though I wouldn't suggest that myself, either).

You would be completely flabbergasted by what kids can learn when they really want to. Teach her by rote, with the "score" just being a guide to remind her of what comes next. This isn't ideal, but it isn't going to harm anything.

I once had a 12yo boy who really wanted to learn "Linus and Lucy" for a talent show. It was waaaay above his level, but he insisted (he started piano at 11yo). I counted out the rhythms with him and got him started. He came back the next week and had it learned and memorized (not totally polished, but still). After learning that piece, he went back to his regular rep and was a slow learner again, and had no interest in learning anything else. I later found out he learned the piece to impress a girl during the talent show. He got her attention, then switched to trumpet because that is what she played. (I found this out from his younger sister, who I also taught.)

@az
I have no idea what skips and steps are, so I wouldn't know. But I don't think I have ever met a child with already several years of schooling behind and without some sort of disability that could not learn the notes of something this simple if they are able to sing it and really wanted to. The 10 year olds I know are quite resourceful. Are you sure you're not underestimating kids because you look at it through the process of classical piano learning. Which is a lot harder.

Besides I have dyscalculia and still confuse finger numbers but that never has been more than a nuisance (I frequently write them wrong). The only issue is if one truly does not understand them.

Don't want to argue but sometimes I just get baffled from what I read here...is the reality we live in really that different?

Something like this:

I say, "Yes, we can learn this. But not until you are good enough with treble clef lines and spaces to pick out the notes. We'll get there fast, probably 2 months max if you study the things I ask you to do."

Then I play it, exactly as written, with the chords improvised in any of 1000 ways, to show that *I* can do it, and I'm not stonewalling because *I* have any problem with the piece or chords.

This establishes instant credibility. I do this in front of a new student and a parent.

I don't have any problems saying, "In the future, absolutely, but now is not the right time and will terribly delay progress in what I want you to learn."

Any parent who is fully on board with the idea that reading is vital will instantly agree that teaching by rote is a false step.

I go over major chords in all keys very early, with all students. So any student I have in the 2nd month or so will know the C, F and G chords in root position.

Well... Outo, yes, it is different. From your comments, it simply just doesn't sound like you have taught piano. I don't underestimate kids because I want to. In fact, I overestimate them most of the time because I have just started teaching and am finding out that a lot of things we take for granted after playing music for a long time, needs to be explained. I end up with some frustrated students, but I'm learning. It might look like something simple, but it is not simple if you want to teach it from the point of view of being able to read the notes, read the rhythm, and play it with proper fingering, and gracefully as well. The girl doesn't know her way around the keyboard yet, and a piece like this that is not in 5-finger C position requires jumping around the piano and I can already imagine her getting lost. Teaching someone a single tune by fumbling around on a piano to find the notes by ear or by copying someone else do it is completely different from teaching someone to read music bottom up. Here is a black note with a stem. Here is a white note with a stem... This is middle C. Now find middle C on the piano. With this girl, even though she is 10, when I taught her hot cross buns in the first lesson.. she kept playing the "one a penny" part twice as fast as the rest of the song. And I tried, believe me, modeling what she was doing, modeling the correct way, clapping, counting. Nope. She is a dancer too, so I thought rhythm would be easier for her, but it hasn't proved to be the case.

I'm teaching another girl who has been in Yamaha for two years. She can play do-re-mi and probably a lot of other things, but she didn't know where middle C is on the staff, couldn't read a lick of music, so today we learned steps (2nd) which go from line to space or space to line, and skips (interval of a third), which go from line to line or space to space.
The first piece is Yankee Doodle. You would be surprised how difficult it is, even after being taught steps and skips. They go down instead of up, or they step instead of skip. Do-Re instead of Do-Mi for example. or C-D instead of C-E if that's the way you know it.
She already knows how to play Yankee Doodle, by ear, because she is musical and because the method that they use in Yamaha encourages that. But I am teaching her new skills because I want her to be able to read music. Reading music is like learning another language. For most of the kids I've encountered thus far, it does not just come.

You sound like you are talking about another method that maybe is closer to what Yamaha does. I don't disagree with such a method, but I have another student that has been in Yamaha for four years, and cannot read music either. She has a wonderful ear, can transpose, real cool stuff, but her parents want her to read music, so here I am. Eventually, they'd like her to be able to play for church, to accompany, and that requires good sight-reading skills, if someone calls a hymn and nobody knows how to sing it.

When it comes to teaching reading notation in general I grew up with Michael Aron where you learn to play from the staff from day one. So I kinda find it strange how slow things are sometimes taught. Can't say if it is better or worse.

You might not be familiar with the current piano pedagogy that involves pre-staff notation, which teaches finger numbers, basic rhythm, and directional reading (using the black keys) before kids even learn the musical alphabet.

Once you learn this method, you might at first be shocked at how slow it goes. However, the more you use it, the more you will realize that the system sets a firm foundation upon which intervallic reading depends.

But, of course, that means you need to know what intervallic reading means in the first place.

It is not rocket science, but it is a science.

Hello my name,
In my opinion, if you teach this piece in any other way that teaching this student how to read it, it will come and haunt you sooner rather than later.

Off topic, but how do you quote various people in one post? Manually?

Yes.

You are speaking to people who have appointed Betsy DeVos as Secretary of Education. We are that different. https://www.theatlantic.com/nationa...-school-success/250564/?utm_source=atlfb

Hello my name,
first of all you are the teacher here, and you have your own gut instinct. Deep down you already know what you want to do, I would go and do it.
In my opinion, if you teach this piece in any other way that teaching this student how to read it, it will come and haunt you sooner rather than later.
Teachers, please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that those students with ease to read music show it from the very beginning (I do only have limited experience my self by observing my own children and their friends learning process, but there are remarkable differences in what I have seen) Those struggling (or learning at a slower pace by comparison) at the early stages and not very secure with finger numbers will find relief of learning any piece in a way different than by reading.
If you teach this piece by rote, your student will probably discover how much easier it is to play by copying others than learning to read. If you teach her how to memorize at the beginning of her piano path, other skills will take more effort and much longer to develop properly. Now is the school play, but she will present you other pieces soon.
If I was the teacher, I would offer an alternative to play in this occasion.Something that will not stop or slow down your lesson plan. Something that will be a true reflection of she can achieve in the short time you have.
But again, I am not a teacher, and my perspective can be totally skewed

I actually think it should be legato, but then I'm a choral singer (O give me a home where the buffalo roam--one phrase, no punctuation).

Since the child just started piano, it would be a shame to squash her enthusiasm so early on.