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Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. #2610380 01/31/17 02:39 PM
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brooster Offline OP
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Hello,

According to Roland the New RD-2000 has a V-Piano "engine" with less adjustable parameters than the previous V-Pianos. It has been said that there isn't any major change in the sound of this new RD-2000 and the V-Pianos from a decade ago.

In this forum there are people who have played the V-Piano saying that the V-Piano is better then the current HP-603-605 and LX-7 and LX-17 and there are people who have played the V-Piano saying the opposite.

Question to all - Does the RD-2000 sound the same as the V-Piano and V-Piano Grand?

To my ears the RD-2000 sounds better with the attack sounding much better.


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Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: brooster] #2610400 01/31/17 04:11 PM
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bennevis Offline
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Originally Posted by brooster


Question to all - Does the RD-2000 sound the same as the V-Piano and V-Piano Grand?

To my ears the RD-2000 sounds better with the attack sounding much better.

I've played both V-Pianos (actually, I own one of them - still wink ) and a couple of the newer modeled Rolands (can't remember which ones - my memory isn't what it was, due to my very, very, very advanced age).

But rather than me answering your question - does it matter? After all, you're the only one who can judge any piano, in relation to your own tastes. And I'm talking both digitals and acoustics.

Incidentally, when I bought my V seven years ago, it was entirely on the basis of me playing it in the showroom. I didn't even know anything about digitals (never having played any before, until I decided to buy one), much less about modeling v sampling. I didn't look anything up online (actually, I didn't own a home computer then) or read any brochures - not that I'd have understood any of the gobbledegook stuff at that time.

Then I found PW, and read about the V........ grin


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: brooster] #2610433 01/31/17 06:33 PM
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sullivang Offline
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Originally Posted by brooster
It has been said that there isn't any major change in the sound of this new RD-2000 and the V-Pianos from a decade ago.


What nincompoop said that?

Greg.

Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: brooster] #2610452 01/31/17 08:10 PM
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brooster Offline OP
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High placed nincompoops which gives credence to the nincompoopery.


The heavens declare the glory of God;
and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: bennevis] #2610453 01/31/17 08:14 PM
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brooster Offline OP
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Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by brooster


Question to all - Does the RD-2000 sound the same as the V-Piano and V-Piano Grand?

To my ears the RD-2000 sounds better with the attack sounding much better.

I've played both V-Pianos (actually, I own one of them - still wink ) and a couple of the newer modeled Rolands (can't remember which ones - my memory isn't what it was, due to my very, very, very advanced age).

But rather than me answering your question - does it matter? After all, you're the only one who can judge any piano, in relation to your own tastes. And I'm talking both digitals and acoustics.

Incidentally, when I bought my V seven years ago, it was entirely on the basis of me playing it in the showroom. I didn't even know anything about digitals (never having played any before, until I decided to buy one), much less about modeling v sampling. I didn't look anything up online (actually, I didn't own a home computer then) or read any brochures - not that I'd have understood any of the gobbledegook stuff at that time.

Then I found PW, and read about the V........ grin


Could you give some observations on the different models?


The heavens declare the glory of God;
and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: brooster] #2610463 01/31/17 08:58 PM
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Dave Ferris Offline
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I've played the V- Piano maybe 15 to 20 times over the years since it has been out. It's been in environments where the ambient noise level has been quiet and mid-level to high end studio monitors were being used. Also have heard it many times with good (not great) headphones. The last time I played one I'm guessing was at the GC. That was in their back, isolated studio room with acoustical treatment - and that's been at least 3 years.

Using that as criteria, even though I had only about 20 minutes with the RD2000 using terrible Roland phones, in a noisy environment - I highly preferred the RD2000 over the V-Piano. Both the action and tone.


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Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: brooster] #2610617 02/01/17 01:57 PM
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Doug M. Offline
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Originally Posted by brooster
Hello,

According to Roland the New RD-2000 has a V-Piano "engine" with less adjustable parameters than the previous V-Pianos. It has been said that there isn't any major change in the sound of this new RD-2000 and the V-Pianos from a decade ago.

In this forum there are people who have played the V-Piano saying that the V-Piano is better then the current HP-603-605 and LX-7 and LX-17 and there are people who have played the V-Piano saying the opposite.

Question to all - Does the RD-2000 sound the same as the V-Piano and V-Piano Grand?

To my ears the RD-2000 sounds better with the attack sounding much better.


V-piano vs RD2000
Both evolution of COSM modelling algorithms
Different processor chip
LX17/RD2000 = evolution of V-piano modelling algorithms (hence Rolands use of the phrase V-piano technology, rather than V-piano modelling).

LX17 sounds better than V-piano to my ears, without tweaking.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: brooster] #2610951 02/02/17 02:50 PM
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I haven't played a V-Piano. Probably never will.

I'm still experimenting with the different sound setups of the LX-17. It has 10 tone characters and 5 sound boards, so I'll have something to test. At this point, I like soundboard 2 with all notes at character +1, and then voiced for the HD598 headphones. Still have to experiment a bit with the speaker system. I'm trying to make the biggest Grand Piano I can, an upright, and a large, heavy mellow piano, and a headphone setup.

The resonances and the sustain in the current HP/LX series are just so completely epic.

At this point in time I wouldn't trade the LX-17 for anything else, *except*... *maybe* a Kawai CS11, if that one had come in multiple pieces. (To be assembled I mean; not broken.)

I don't really care if it sounds like one acoustic or another; the only thing that counts is that I like the tone and how it plays.

Last edited by Falsch; 02/02/17 02:52 PM.

Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: brooster] #2610957 02/02/17 03:08 PM
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Have you noticed that the character parameter seems a bit too sensitive?

For example, if you go -1 (one click to the left) the sound seems to get too dark/deep. In other words, the change is very abrupt and not gradual/subtle.

Also, I noticed that if you go further down (-2 for example) some notes, especially in the lower end, go out of tune. This shouldn't happen since there is a tuning parameter for that.

Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: brooster] #2611008 02/02/17 06:18 PM
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I own a v-piano and i don't think it sounds anything like the FP-90 that i've recently played. I think they have definitely refined the algorithms and the processors over the years for this new generation. the modeled sound of the fp-90 (and i assume the rd 2000 will be the same..) seems far more realistic than the v-piano.

as i mentioned in an earlier thread if per chance it IS the same then i wish they'd give me the settings or a software update to get that new sound (and that is why i don't think it is the same ..). I am surprised they would call what's in the RD 2000 the V Piano engine since i don't think the original product was very successful....?

Now my v-piano spends its days being used as the worlds most expensive piano vst keyboard controller. and it has worked great for that. the thing is so well built it will probably never die.


Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250;
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; True Keys American; UVI Yamaha C7; Ravenscroft 275; Garritan CFX
Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: Doug M.] #2611015 02/02/17 06:33 PM
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sullivang Offline
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Originally Posted by Doug M.

LX17/RD2000 = evolution of V-piano modelling algorithms (hence Rolands use of the phrase V-piano technology, rather than V-piano modelling).


I wonder why they didn't use the phrase "V-Piano technology" for the LX17.

Greg.

Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: Pete14] #2611041 02/02/17 08:11 PM
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Falsch Offline
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Have you noticed that the character parameter seems a bit too sensitive?

For example, if you go -1 (one click to the left) the sound seems to get too dark/deep. In other words, the change is very abrupt and not gradual/subtle.

Also, I noticed that if you go further down (-2 for example) some notes, especially in the lower end, go out of tune. This shouldn't happen since there is a tuning parameter for that.


They're different characters; not just lower is deeper, and higher is brighter. Also, at least in the app (and probably in the manual), it's mentioned that character can, and will, influence both volume and tuning. It is specifically said that you get best results by using these options in tandem.

I don't want an extremely bright or dark piano. I've found the following:

- Soundboard 1: 'standard piano sound'
- Soundboard 2: Also standard, but fuller, thicker.
- Soundboard 3: Mellow, quite dark.
- Soundboard 4: Upright-like
- Soundboard 5: Wiry 'dzingy' sound

Character 0 is 'default', and sounds good, but some notes in the higher middle registers need fixing as they go 'dinggggg!' like an electric piano.

Character +1 (for all notes) gives the piano a very nice singing tone. I liked it, with soundboard 1 through the HD598 headphones. I'm going to try it with soundboard 2, and settings similar to "European Grand" (from the app), through speakers.

Character -1 is a bit duller, which I use to fix the notes that go 'ding' as mentioned above.

I haven't yet tried higher values. I'm trying to create the following piano's:

- Concert: A huge, full, singing, forever sustaining grand, based on soundboard 2, probably. (My own version of "European Grand" from the app.)
- Ballad: Upright, based on soundboard 4
- Mellow: Yeah... mellow. Based on soundboard 3
- Bright: Adjusted for Sennheiser HD598 headphones.

This stuff is a lot of work though.


Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: sullivang] #2611044 02/02/17 08:15 PM
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Falsch Offline
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Originally Posted by sullivang
Originally Posted by Doug M.

LX17/RD2000 = evolution of V-piano modelling algorithms (hence Rolands use of the phrase V-piano technology, rather than V-piano modelling).


I wonder why they didn't use the phrase "V-Piano technology" for the LX17.

Greg.


JayGVan has moved on from Roland to another career at Nikon, and he was the only one keeping the marketing department in check. Now they're going berserk. In the next update, they'll tell you that the LX-18 has 'all the technology of an acoustic grand piano', in a digital upright cabinet. It will be so realistic that it actually goes out of tune every half a year by slowly adjusting its parameters, and you'll have to set them correct again to give you the full acoustic experience.


Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: brooster] #2611051 02/02/17 08:37 PM
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I had nothing to do with the marketing department. I spent over 12 years, selling to the retailers, who then sold to end users. I trained retailers on the button pushes, what to say about each important feature, and how to demo them to end users to their best effect.

Roland wanted to differentiate the HP/LX from the V-Piano. So the V wasn't mentioned in the marketing for the HP/LX series. Although the lineage is there in SuperNatural Piano Modelling, the core customers are different.

The RD-2000 is more closely related in terms of core customer, so it makes sense to make mention the V-Piano lineage in the marketing for it.

It's not a conspiracy.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: JayGVan] #2611054 02/02/17 08:49 PM
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TonyB Offline
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Originally Posted by JayGVan
I had nothing to do with the marketing department. I spent over 12 years, selling to the retailers, who then sold to end users. I trained retailers on the button pushes, what to say about each important feature, and how to demo them to end users to their best effect.

Roland wanted to differentiate the HP/LX from the V-Piano. So the V wasn't mentioned in the marketing for the HP/LX series. Although the lineage is there in SuperNatural Piano Modelling, the core customers are different.

The RD-2000 is more closely related in terms of core customer, so it makes sense to make mention the V-Piano lineage in the marketing for it.

It's not a conspiracy.

Jay


Jay -

I have been reading your posts for quite some time now. I have to say, you show a very high degree of restraint and patience here in these forums. smile

Tony


Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: Falsch] #2611060 02/02/17 09:21 PM
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Pete14 Offline
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Originally Posted by Falsch
Originally Posted by Pete14
Have you noticed that the character parameter seems a bit too sensitive?

For example, if you go -1 (one click to the left) the sound seems to get too dark/deep. In other words, the change is very abrupt and not gradual/subtle.

Also, I noticed that if you go further down (-2 for example) some notes, especially in the lower end, go out of tune. This shouldn't happen since there is a tuning parameter for that.


They're different characters; not just lower is deeper, and higher is brighter. Also, at least in the app (and probably in the manual), it's mentioned that character can, and will, influence both volume and tuning. It is specifically said that you get best results by using these options in tandem.

I don't want an extremely bright or dark piano. I've found the following:

- Soundboard 1: 'standard piano sound'
- Soundboard 2: Also standard, but fuller, thicker.
- Soundboard 3: Mellow, quite dark.
- Soundboard 4: Upright-like
- Soundboard 5: Wiry 'dzingy' sound

Character 0 is 'default', and sounds good, but some notes in the higher middle registers need fixing as they go 'dinggggg!' like an electric piano.

Character +1 (for all notes) gives the piano a very nice singing tone. I liked it, with soundboard 1 through the HD598 headphones. I'm going to try it with soundboard 2, and settings similar to "European Grand" (from the app), through speakers.

Character -1 is a bit duller, which I use to fix the notes that go 'ding' as mentioned above.

I haven't yet tried higher values. I'm trying to create the following piano's:

- Concert: A huge, full, singing, forever sustaining grand, based on soundboard 2, probably. (My own version of "European Grand" from the app.)
- Ballad: Upright, based on soundboard 4
- Mellow: Yeah... mellow. Based on soundboard 3
- Bright: Adjusted for Sennheiser HD598 headphones.

This stuff is a lot of work though.


Thanks for the info.

I didn't know that it was normal for the character parameter to affect the tuning as well.

Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: JayGVan] #2611070 02/02/17 10:00 PM
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Falsch Offline
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Originally Posted by JayGVan
I had nothing to do with the marketing department....


I know smile I thought the rest of my post made it obvious that I was joking smile

Last edited by Falsch; 02/02/17 10:00 PM.

Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: brooster] #2611076 02/02/17 10:58 PM
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It did to me....but likely not to others.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: TonyB] #2611077 02/02/17 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyB
Originally Posted by JayGVan
I had nothing to do with the marketing department. I spent over 12 years, selling to the retailers, who then sold to end users. I trained retailers on the button pushes, what to say about each important feature, and how to demo them to end users to their best effect.

Roland wanted to differentiate the HP/LX from the V-Piano. So the V wasn't mentioned in the marketing for the HP/LX series. Although the lineage is there in SuperNatural Piano Modelling, the core customers are different.

The RD-2000 is more closely related in terms of core customer, so it makes sense to make mention the V-Piano lineage in the marketing for it.

It's not a conspiracy.

Jay


Jay -

I have been reading your posts for quite some time now. I have to say, you show a very high degree of restraint and patience here in these forums. smile

Tony



Hahaha Thanks Tony.

I'm no longer a Roland guy, but I tend to be pretty patient. Except when things get just plain stupid. I guess now, I am not protecting my employment, nor my employer...SO I am a bit more free to say what I really think.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: Question for V-Piano and V-Piano Grand owners. [Re: brooster] #2611085 02/02/17 11:48 PM
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Jay: thanks for the info - appreciated.

Falsch: no, I didn't realise you were joking about Jay, FWIW.

Greg.

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