Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
85 registered members (Cheshire Chris, Cavokk, Bobetski, clothearednincompo, Bett, BoyFromBoonton, cliowa, 19 invisible), 891 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606591
01/20/17 08:27 PM
01/20/17 08:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,713
Suffolk, United Kingdom
E
EssBrace Offline
3000 Post Club Member
EssBrace  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
E

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,713
Suffolk, United Kingdom
Maybe we are at cross purposes. I'm sticking to my guns. To my mind it's effectively the key activating the sensors. If the sensors were where they would be struck by the reciprocal weighted part of the hammer, i.e., the hammer 'head', then I'd agree with you.


Roland RD-1000 | Yamaha CLP 645 | Broadwood Barless 7' 6"
(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606592
01/20/17 08:31 PM
01/20/17 08:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,445
UK
A
Alexander Borro Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Alexander Borro  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,445
UK
Originally Posted by Dave Horne
[i]
Start a new f****** thread. smile


I will, another day, seems noone ever talks about it though, I don't know of anyone owning one here, seeing it is still a keyboard of sorts.

Anyway, I was just mesmerised by that toy the few couple of times I tried it comparing to more conventional keyboards, must be just me and my obsession with it. :P smile

Last edited by Alexander Borro; 01/20/17 08:31 PM.

Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Alexander Borro] #2606595
01/20/17 08:34 PM
01/20/17 08:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,425
Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Online content OP
6000 Post Club Member
Dave Horne  Online Content OP
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,425
Vught, The Netherlands
Anyway, I was just mesmerised by that toy ...

I think the key word is ... toy.

My local music store also had that keyboard on display. I choose to ignore it.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: EssBrace] #2606601
01/20/17 08:49 PM
01/20/17 08:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,744
G
Gombessa Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Gombessa  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,744
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Maybe we are at cross purposes. I'm sticking to my guns. To my mind it's effectively the key activating the sensors. If the sensors were where they would be struck by the reciprocal weighted part of the hammer, i.e., the hammer 'head', then I'd agree with you.


Yeah I would feel better too if it was the hammer head contacted the sensor, though I don't think that physics-wise it follows.

One key fact, most visible in the Yamaha image: you can strike the key hard enough to impart momentum on the hammer, which will follow through its travel and strike the sensor even if the key never bottoms out. In other words, the key is not physically connected to the hammer, which flies on its own.

Because of you are arguing that it is really the key pressing the sensor due to the position under the lever, then it would be exactly the same problem even if it was the weighted end hitting the sensor. In the end it is still "the key" doing the hitting and it's still ignoring the independent momentum of the hammer.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606602
01/20/17 08:57 PM
01/20/17 08:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,713
Suffolk, United Kingdom
E
EssBrace Offline
3000 Post Club Member
EssBrace  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
E

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,713
Suffolk, United Kingdom
Apologies to Dave...we are OT!

But....to my mind the obvious place to have a sensor or sensors would be where the 'sensors' are in an acoustic piano, i.e., the strings are the 'sensors'. This is where the hammer strikes but I've never seen images that suggest the sensor position in any DP is in a place comparable to that point. I know the AG has optical sensors on keys and hammers. And the wooden Kawais' sensors are closer to the weighted part of the hammer than other conventional DPs although they are still nearer to the part of the hammer activated by the ends of the key rather then the weighted part of the hammer. It's probably an academic point because it's the results that count but even so...


Roland RD-1000 | Yamaha CLP 645 | Broadwood Barless 7' 6"
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606631
01/20/17 11:16 PM
01/20/17 11:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,157
Sydney, Australia
S
sullivang Offline
3000 Post Club Member
sullivang  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,157
Sydney, Australia
The ultra-exotic Alpha piano (does it exist yet?) purports to have the sensor where the strings would be, as far as I can tell: http://www.alpha-piano.com/beschreibung-alpha-piano

Greg.

Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Alexander Borro] #2606653
01/21/17 01:33 AM
01/21/17 01:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,747
Richmond, BC, Canada
C
Charles Cohen Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Charles Cohen  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,747
Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted by Alexander Borro
. . .
The internal engines in digitals do not use midi to connect with the build in sound engine ... AFAIK, I may be wrong though, but logically, I don't see why they would, they can program whatever they like to connect the action with the sound engine, for example, yamaha smooth release in the CLPs. MIDI is used with VSTs and such .. true.

I do vaguely recall in some cases people mentioning loading midi files to play back in their digitals on some models, that some of the nuances were lost, Not sure though, just a vague bit of memory. smile


I'm pretty sure you're wrong. In most DP's (mine, for example), the connection between the keyboard and the sound generator _is_ a MIDI data stream:

. . . You can record the MIDI data, and play it back,
. . . and it sounds the same as when you played it "live".

There are some subtleties -- "double-precision" MIDI (useless IMHO), and some keyboard actions send "note-off velocity" (which controls the speed of damping in the sound generator).

But basically:

. . . Press or release a key -->
. . . . . Generate MIDI data -->
. . . . . . . MIDI data is input to sound generator -->
. . . . . . . . Sound generator output is sent to amps and speakers.

There might be something beyond that in some very-high-end DP's -- the DisKlaviers, Avant Grands and V-Grand and such. But for everything from a Casio CTK keyboard to a Kawai CA97, that's a good model.



. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606682
01/21/17 05:30 AM
01/21/17 05:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 763
Finland
C
clothearednincompo Online content
500 Post Club Member
clothearednincompo  Online Content
500 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 763
Finland
While we are obsessed by off-topic technical details (sorry...), this is from Kurzweil's MP20 product page:

"Great piano control starts with the keyboard action and the MP20 has one of KURZWEIL's best proprietary hammer-action keyboards. Hammer motion, not key motion, is sensed to provide the most accurate dynamic control possible."

It must be something really fancy and unique, right? Hammers swinging freely like in a grand? Or AvantGrand.

Here it is on the left side:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v1QQB21QeE&feature=youtu.be&t=1m8s

So, if you go for the optional Fatar action, which is supposedly an "upgrade" you end up with an "inferior" action where the sensors are triggered by the keys instead of the hammers. Yuck!

Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606733
01/21/17 09:04 AM
01/21/17 09:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 57
New Orleans area
R
Rally Offline
Full Member
Rally  Offline
Full Member
R

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 57
New Orleans area
I guess it is safe to say that self-absorbed people are either too lazy or ignorant of how to start their own thread.

Last edited by Rally; 01/21/17 09:44 AM.
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Rally] #2606744
01/21/17 09:48 AM
01/21/17 09:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 272
The Netherlands
P
pianistje Offline
Full Member
pianistje  Offline
Full Member
P

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 272
The Netherlands
Originally Posted by Rally
I guess it is safe to say that self-absorbed people are either too lazy or ignorant of how to start their own thread.

Ah i thought that the thread starter had all the answers he was appearently after :-)

Dave Horne Quote :
Quote

Well, thanks for listening. Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky. smile

Everything else that has been discussed in the latter stages of this thread is therefor a huge bonus wow

Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606750
01/21/17 10:34 AM
01/21/17 10:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 208
New York
R
Rhodie73 Offline
Full Member
Rhodie73  Offline
Full Member
R

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 208
New York
Geeezz folks back OT. Dave I was the one that posted the "leaked" pic of the now RD2000 and I've already made the decision to go for it! I've owned an RD800 and it's nice, no complaints really except for that damn power cable debacle. However after reading Dave Ferris's mini review and PM'ing him, I'm pretty much sold. If I had the time this year I would have been at NAMM to try things out, but unfortunately I'm in NY and going across the nation wasn't happening this year the wife said lol. Anyway I appreciate that we have forum members here, always willing to give useful information and experiences. To me the RD2000 is a no brainer when compared to the RD800 because of the inclusion of the V-Piano engine with its extensive editing. Now for $2499 you get a better action, v-piano tech, improved supernatural EP's, flash wave expansion to download new sounds and much more comprehensive master keyboard controller features all in a package that is still relatively giggable. I'll take it! I'd say cough up the extra cash and spend your money once rather than get something you know will probably sell after you play the latest and greatest. I see the RD2000 as being a purchase that will last a while for me because of many of the uncompromising technologies included in it. When I need new piano sounds I simply construct them with the V-piano tech. When I want a different kind of vintage EP I simply mess around with the supernatural parameters to create "my sound". Finally when I need "other" sounds I simply go on the Axial site and download them.

Last edited by Rhodie73; 01/21/17 10:37 AM.
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2608428
01/25/17 05:14 PM
01/25/17 05:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 110
NC
M
Macsaint777 Offline
Full Member
Macsaint777  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 110
NC
Very much enjoyed reading all these thoughts, and I personally am about to place a pre-order for the RD-2000 with Sweetwater because it simply gives me all the MIDI functionality I need, whereas the RD-800 I have now is AWESOME but not the best for MIDI. Anyone who is interested in the RD-800 in the USA, I have one for sale on Ebay right now. Excellent condition and comes in flight case with pedal and manual.

I figure with my Nord Electro 5D and an RD-2000, that should cover most any hardware and software needs.

Here is a link, and I am open to counter offers as well. http://www.ebay.com/itm/122325430978?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


Last edited by Macsaint777; 01/25/17 05:17 PM.

Nord Electro 5D, Roland RD-2000, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Macsaint777] #2608465
01/25/17 08:05 PM
01/25/17 08:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,809
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,809
Hamamatsu, Japan
Macsaint777, welcome to the forum!

Originally Posted by Macsaint777
I personally am about to place a pre-order for the RD-2000 with Sweetwater because it simply gives me all the MIDI functionality I need, whereas the RD-800 I have now is AWESOME but not the best for MIDI.


May I ask what kind of MIDI functionality the RD-2000 offers that is lacking in your RD-800?

Kind regards,
James
x



Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Kawai James] #2608474
01/25/17 08:46 PM
01/25/17 08:46 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 532
B
Beakybird Offline
500 Post Club Member
Beakybird  Offline
500 Post Club Member
B

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 532
Originally Posted by Kawai James


May I ask what kind of MIDI functionality the RD-2000 offers that is lacking in your RD-800?

Kind regards,
James
x



The RD-2000 has an internal USB interface, so you don't need a sound card. You can go directly from a soft synth through USB into the speakers of the RD-2000. You can record directly from the RD-2000 to the computer without audio cables, etc.


Roland FP-90; Pianoteq 6 + many add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X and Samson SR850 headphones; Xenyx Q802USB interface. 2; I make a living playing a Yamaha PSR-S970 with FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic. I also play guitar.
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2608500
01/25/17 10:53 PM
01/25/17 10:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,809
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,809
Hamamatsu, Japan
Beakybird, yes you're right.

However, while certainly useful, I'm not sure that's not strictly MIDI related, is it?

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2608504
01/25/17 11:18 PM
01/25/17 11:18 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 532
B
Beakybird Offline
500 Post Club Member
Beakybird  Offline
500 Post Club Member
B

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 532
It's an audio interface. You can record audio directly to DAW without 1/4" cables. I assume it's MIDI capable. I read somewhere though that the audio is 44khz, inferior to most soundcards.


Roland FP-90; Pianoteq 6 + many add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X and Samson SR850 headphones; Xenyx Q802USB interface. 2; I make a living playing a Yamaha PSR-S970 with FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic. I also play guitar.
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2608514
01/25/17 11:51 PM
01/25/17 11:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,809
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,809
Hamamatsu, Japan
Beakybird, again, the RD-2000's built-in audio interface is undoubtedly very useful.

However, Macsaint777 mentioned that his/her RD-800 is "not the best for MIDI", so I was thinking more along the lines of how the board is used controlling zones, key ranges, etc.

I expect Macsaint777 will return shortly to confirm if he/she was referring to the built-in audio interface on the RD-2000, or another improvement more specifically related to MIDI functionality.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Kawai James] #2609564
01/29/17 05:09 AM
01/29/17 05:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 110
NC
M
Macsaint777 Offline
Full Member
Macsaint777  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 110
NC
Apologies for being away so long! I was specifically referring to the knobs and faders that are set up to govern 8 different zones, and very easily with the touch of the red/green indicator LED buttons. I used to use (I did indeed sell it last week) my RD-800 for controlling various MIDI parameters in Omnisphere and Keyscape (Spectrasonics) but I was always bothered by the fact that the RD did not have a modulation wheel. I typically assigned my modulation function, usually filter cutoff- to one of the knobs on the RD. I found the knobs not so good for sweeping filter cutoff quickly, and I am hoping the RD-2000 does not have the same stopping point in the middle of the knobs as the RD-800 does. I placed a pre-order for the RD-2000 with Sweetwater and just order a new MacBook Pro to replace my late 2013 model, so I am looking forward to have a vast amount of power and MIDI capability on hand. With the RD-2000 covering keyboard sounds, my Nord Electro 5D covering Organ and whatever samples I need to import, and then the Mac for software, I think that should do it for me! Speaking of MIDI and the RD-800, I also found the lack of versatility for external controls to be rather frustrating. Example: I hooked up a Jupiter 80 (which I sold last week as well) to the RD-800 and I could not find a way to transmit ONLY keyboard MIDI and not controller MIDI to the JP-80. It was really strange because even my Nord E5D, which I consider very very basic in the MIDI department- has the ability to not receive external controls and still have its sounds triggered. The way Scott Tibbs shows the RD-2000 working so well with MainStage, it looks like they designed it with a good deal more "Master-Controller" functionality in mind, whereas the RD-800 is a fantastic stage piano, it is not best as a MIDI controller beyond basic functions. Kawai James, Thank you for the welcome! Good to be here! Dave Ferris, you were instrumental (yes pun intended) in my decision to pre-order the RD-2000. Sweetwater matched the price AltoMusic quoted me, which was a GOOD BIT under list for the RD-2000, so according to Sweetwater, February 12 is when they expect the RD-2000 to arrive. Can't Wait!

I work as Apple tech support and type for a living as a Senior Advisor. Please forgive any typos as I have been typing for a good 12 hours now.


Blessings!



Nord Electro 5D, Roland RD-2000, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2609604
01/29/17 09:22 AM
01/29/17 09:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 507
Tennessee
B
brooster Offline
500 Post Club Member
brooster  Offline
500 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 507
Tennessee


The heavens declare the glory of God;
and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Macsaint777] #2609793
01/29/17 10:20 PM
01/29/17 10:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,809
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,809
Hamamatsu, Japan
Macsaint777, thanks for the clarification.

It certainly sounds like you'll have an excellent setup between the Roland, Nord, and Mac!

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Piano World 

Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New here
by Cheshire Chris. 03/24/19 07:12 AM
Digital Piano Room Placement Guide
by dhts. 03/24/19 07:06 AM
Together as one
by Markuska. 03/24/19 06:31 AM
KAWAI CA78 General questions for new user
by Bobetski. 03/24/19 05:58 AM
Ornament Accidental Changes for the Bar?
by abrogard. 03/23/19 08:01 PM
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics191,092
Posts2,810,130
Members92,859
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2