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Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2608421 01/25/17 03:46 PM
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Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2608432 01/25/17 04:29 PM
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I've played the GP500. I think the action is quite nice, but the resonances and sustain of the piano are muddy. That could be because of poor resonance modelling, or the speaking system not eing as good as the one in the LX-17. And I really, really dislike that tacky golden plate on the casing.


Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2608446 01/25/17 05:27 PM
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I prefer Lounge Lizard to any of the sampled electric pianos, as well as the Pianoteq electric
model.



Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: Falsch] #2608558 01/26/17 02:34 AM
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I hate to admit it but that bras plaque was a major turn off for me too lol.. Usually I don't mind equipment being less than nice looking to my eyes if they work well but thát plaque is just too much. Gaudy


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Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: login] #2608561 01/26/17 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by login
I prefer Lounge Lizard to any of the sampled electric pianos, as well as the Pianoteq electric
model.



I am kind of jealouse of those who prefer modeling........ i hated my modeling EP's in my GEM RP-X long ago, despite that it received lot's of praise (even today) of the ' modeling' crowd.I did barely use the Gem after a couple of months. That was clearly a wrong purchase for me.

But i cannot imagine that you played the new Scarbee, Keyscape or the Acousticsamples renderings, because they sound vastly superiour to the two you mentioned (lz and pt) and i have heard most recordings online . Unless of course i do miss something completely.......
My understanding is that many 'modeling' users don't bother getting into the latest sample libraries, because they took the modeling road.( like that knowledgeable person called Evildragon that participates in most forums around the globe promoting Pianoteq as the best piano vst ever)
I think modeling is the way to go and 'modobass' is such a product that fully supports that notion.

Hiwever in piano and electric pianoland, i can't live with modeling for headphone use in isolation and recording. Live use ?..... awesome !!!!

Last edited by pianistje; 01/26/17 02:58 AM.
Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: JayGVan] #2608965 01/27/17 08:14 AM
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Jay,

so i guess there is no compatibility between the early-on V-Pianos and the new engine for the HP/ LX / RD lines? As in, since all this started I've been hoping i would go to the Roland website and see a downloadable update for my V-Piano that will make it sound like these new pianos. Because it sounds NOTHING like them in its current configuration. I know my V piano has out-of-date hardware in it but I have been hoping it is powerful enough to update to the newer (... i hope newer...) set of algorithms used in the supernatural modeled pianos recently released.
I played an FP-90 a few days ago in a music store around here and was very impressed with the sound of the piano(s). But i also remember being impressed with the V-piano when i first tried it out. And that is what scares me about this move by roland. My brain is excited and hearing what it wants to hear. Just like i did when i listened to the Garritan CFX demos (people actually like this piano?..). Familiarity breeds contempt quickly with digital piano sounds...

So, surely Roland didn't just stick the V-Piano software without any re-working in these new pianos, right? if they did, i wish they'd send me the settings!!!

Having said all that, i believe i will own a FP-90 or RD 2000 within the next couple years....


Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250;
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; True Keys American; UVI Yamaha C7; Ravenscroft 275; Garritan CFX
Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2608976 01/27/17 08:38 AM
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I reckon vpiano at 7+ years old has a different system architecture from the current HP/LX series - though I am guessing there is no difference in the actual chip doing the modelling on the RD-2000 - so yes - we want updates Jay ^^


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Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2608999 01/27/17 09:38 AM
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Jay is no longer affiliated to Roland. Please contact www.roland.com regarding any concerns/complaints. A Roland representative will get back to you (if at all) with the usual B.S.

Thank you smokin


Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: Pete14] #2609007 01/27/17 09:53 AM
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Hush! Don't step on our daydreams


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Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2609018 01/27/17 10:14 AM
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Well... Jay can at least attach a 70-200/2.8 VR to his D800 and then use that to smash his FP-90 to pieces next time half his pictures are blurry and he fails to keep time in La Campanella smile

Then, obviously, the only course of action will be to become an origami teacher.

(j/k, Jay smile )

Last edited by Falsch; 01/27/17 10:14 AM.

Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2609024 01/27/17 10:48 AM
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The big companies always got away with clouding their precise specs for a long time.
How many velocity layers ?, how many seconds before looping ?,how many notes are streched ? how large is the memory pool ?
And by the time they gave away bits and bytes about that a new phenomena kicked in,.........cosm, scm and other fancy modeling tools that were active to glue the limited memory together as if we were dealing with a multi gigabyte piano with seemless transitions all over the place , due to it's thousends of high quality recordings.

O boy did i buy into this nonsence,..... i could have, should have known better.
During the Frankfurther Messe in 1997 or 1998, I ran into the first original giga piano vst.
Roland had their RD600, Kurzweil the K2600, Yamaha the P150 if i recall correctly and this giga piano sounded so much better than all those mentioned.
I bought into the marketing crap for years, that Yamaha , Roland , Kawai, Kurzweil made the best sounding digital piano's available.
Something that won't happen again, because i discovered the ocean of vst's including some that sound vastly superiour than any hardware package.

I have to say the big companies are still very successfull in promoting themselves as the pinacle of certain digital instruments.
I bought some top guitar and bass libraries this year and boy do the guitars and basses on my integra7 sound fake in comparison.

Never knew, or felt the need the explore vst's, since i had the Roland SN guitars and also the Tyros2 SA voices and mega voices strumming guitars.
Reading how people rave about the new RD2000 it reminds me of myself when i bought the next after the next expensive hardware piano.
Yes when you are a weekend warrier then those hardware boards are excelent, but even the Gem Promega will do more than fine, understanding they get re- released again from Finland. Maybe time for the ressurection of the real mono triple strike piano that won't collapse live also ?

But for home use and recordings it surprises me that the big companies get away with their salesmen's talk.
Sure many Avant grand N3 users realise by now that the headphonesound is more or less on par with the Casio Privia line instaed of a multi gigabyte piano library.

I think that there are still many players out there that hardly played a superb set up with top vst's. That's the only explanation i've got and because i thought i had the 'best' sound out there after buying the latest hardware gem i understand this completely.


Last edited by pianistje; 01/27/17 11:03 AM.
Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2609045 01/27/17 11:46 AM
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The one reason why hardware piano's (and organs) still exist is because most VST-setups are only fit for a studio. I wouldn't put my MP7 setup in a living room. It's 2.5m wide, to begin with, has two huge studio monitors to the side, and a TV behind it for displaying digital sheet music and to control Pianoteq.

I bought the MP7 (and later Pianoteq and the speakers) to 'try' piano playing instead of organ playing, and I liked it. Then I went looking for a good hardware piano. The criteria were as such:

Appearance: As close as possible to an acoustic piano. Able to be disassembled.

Action: "Good." As long as it's not just crap, I can probably play it, because I'll not be venturing into the ultra-high-end of classical music. By the time I reach the level of playing something like La Campanella convincingly, I'll probably be ready to replace the piano.

Sound:
- Very long sustain.
- Very long resonances, and all/as many as possible that a real piano would also generate.
- Lots of sound customization options
- Very good sound placement/projection/sound stage

The LX-17 fit this to a Tee, so I bought it. I can't imagine swapping it for an LX-17E, LX-18, or whatever in the next 10 years. It might not sound close to any existing acoustic piano, but it sounds more than enough like a piano to me, with some changes to the sound characters to fit my tastes.


Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2609053 01/27/17 12:13 PM
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For production virtual instruments are far superior to current hardware, I think the only chance for HW to remain relevant for this is in fact modelling, since they will never carry libraries that are 20-50gb per instrument.

And even in modelling they are now behind, only roland offers it and only for pianos. Pianoteq has arps and many other tuned percussion instruments. There are other companies doing brass and strings, not quite there yet but I am sure after some years they will get better.

Stuff like Vienna Symphonic Orchestra is used in Hollywood soundtracks, as well as Omnisphere. So yeah, for production software is far ahead.


Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2609167 01/27/17 05:07 PM
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Oh no you said never and stated a limit on memory used/needed. Boy is your face going to be red in N years Login XD

I could have put together something more capable and flexible perhaps, but the cat, the kid, and the wife would have had way too much fun poking prodding pulling at knobs wires buttons and extension chords, not to mention the Frankenstein design vibe it would have gotten going in our living room.. Theres a market for them still, but I do hope one of them takes the plunge and makes something tinker friendly sometime.. maybe run their stuff on x86 hardware so ppl can load third party software but that is a big step to take.. they're in the business of adding value (for) themselves eh


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Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2609178 01/27/17 06:09 PM
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Wersi has had x86 organs that run Windows for over 15 years now.

I don't see why Roland coulnd't take an LX-17 cabinet, rip most of the hardware out of it, and use a computer running a VST. The piano itself would then only be used to control some of the VST options, with the tiny 'nerd-options' set at reasonable defaults. They can then be controlled by connecting a monitor, mouse and keyboard to the piano, or by a virtual desktop.

One of the instruments taking this approach is the Crumar Mojo, whiach runs the VB3 Hammond/Leslie VST. The organ/keyboard is used to control the big options such as "which Leslie-type", leakage, crosstalk, and drawbars, obviously, and the monitor/mouse/keyboard connection is used to control the tiny options most people won't ever fiddle with, such as voicing an individual tonewheel 0.05 cents higher.

Last edited by Falsch; 01/27/17 06:15 PM.

Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2609179 01/27/17 06:26 PM
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Crumar had something for pianos too - it was mainly for Pianoteq but could run sampled stuff too. Not sure how far the product got though.

Btw, I would want Roland to keep offering their modelling tech, whether that be on dedicated hardware or in sw, in addition to large "standard" sampled sounds.

Greg.

Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2609247 01/28/17 02:37 AM
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It is a difficult decision to make for the 'big names' - right now their pianos are walled gardens.. If one player opens up it might gobble up that part of the market that is more tech savvy but if all of them do it, and third party software keeps growing, how do they differentiate themselves?


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Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2609324 01/28/17 10:28 AM
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Well, the difference between a VPC1 connected to a computer, screen, and external monitor speakers and a 'computerized' CA100 would be huge. The first can hardly be in the living room, while the second one can.

Even if you use a VST, such as a customized version of Galaxy, or Ivory (or they have one made themselves), you can just have the piano control the options similar to what the Virtual Technician now does. Froma user perspective, it wouldn't even be necessary to know the piano actually runs on a computer.

If you put them a Wersi and a (newer) Roland organ side by side, it's not apparent that the Wersi runs on a computer, and the Roland doesn't. They both use buttons, drawbars, and a touchscreen as their controls. (I think it's a pity that something like a Roland AT-800 has to cost €15K, and that the orchestral organ market is therefore essentially dead.)

There is no technical reason for the current manufacturers to keep jacking around with their custom chips and boards, apart from introducing tiny improvements every 2-3 years. Of course, if you skip 2-3 generations, you'll notice those improvements, but it mostly is not worth it to upgrade from one generation to the next. Upgrading from HI -> PHI -> UPHI -> HI-XL one step at a time will probably be an unnoticeable improvement, while going from HI to HI-XL in one go will definitely be worth it.

If Kawai would sample one of their piano's at the level used by Nord (or Sampletekk, where they get their samples), or even higher, such as Galaxy D, and then build a speaker system to use that to its fullest extent, all those points would be moot.

Last edited by Falsch; 01/28/17 10:34 AM.

Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2609327 01/28/17 10:33 AM
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From what I read, Roland uses computing boards which are open source, and an OS which is also open source so kudos to that ^^ Still, nothing that anybody could easily modify - which is pretty much their intent I reckon. Or else perhaps nobody has bothered to try and modify anyways..


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Re: The Roland RD-2000 does have V-Piano! [Re: brooster] #2609329 01/28/17 10:37 AM
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What operating system does Roland use? I assume Roland uses an RTOS (Real Time Operating System), and there are quite a few, not even counting the ones kept proprietary by manufacturers.


Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
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