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Yamaha SX series? #2607017
01/21/17 10:38 PM
01/21/17 10:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 269
Maryland, USA
D
Davdoc Offline OP
Full Member
Davdoc  Offline OP
Full Member
D
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 269
Maryland, USA
It appeared that Yamaha introduced a new line called SX series at NAMM, with available sizes that seemed to complement the CF series.

Is there any business insider here on PW, currently attending NAMM, who can provide some insights to this new line?

I got this news because Facebook popped up an ad from Yamaha Music. Two early commenters on that Facebook post were not very positive about it. I somehow couldn't find these two comments anymore.

One of them, I believe, was a regular here; he said the treatment Yamaha referred to had been done for years by other makers. The other said he had played many SX pianos and they are not comparable to his S600 (what's this?) I kind of doubt the second one, logically, mainly because this line is brand new and he would have to be extremely well connnected with Yamaha to be able to play "many" of them. Afterall, even it's been a few years now, CF series instruments are still hard to find, let alone many.

Last edited by Davdoc; 01/21/17 11:39 PM. Reason: Typo

1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
Kawai MP11

Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5
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Re: Yamaha SX series? [Re: Davdoc] #2607024
01/21/17 10:53 PM
01/21/17 10:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois
David Farley Offline
1000 Post Club Member
David Farley  Offline
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Posts: 1,667
Chicago, Illinois

Re: Yamaha SX series? [Re: David Farley] #2607026
01/21/17 11:00 PM
01/21/17 11:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 269
Maryland, USA
D
Davdoc Offline OP
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Davdoc  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2016
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As I said I couldn't find his comment anymore but I'm pretty sure he wrote S600, as I myself am aware of S6.


1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
Kawai MP11

Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5
Re: Yamaha SX series? [Re: Davdoc] #2607028
01/21/17 11:02 PM
01/21/17 11:02 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,077
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Rich Galassini  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,077
Philadelphia/South Jersey
These pianos (the SX series) are being officially unveiled at NAMM as I write this. The general public and, even their dealers, have not yet even seen them, let alone played them.

Just yesterday I met with Hugh Sung and Domenic Cicchetti for a private look at these pianos. Domenic Cicchetti is a jazz pianist who played for Liza Minnelli for 15 years, Meatloaf for 4 years, and has had a career within the music industry with Technics, Steinway, and now Yamaha.

I will put up a brief video as soon as I upload it so everyone here can get a "first taste".


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
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Re: Yamaha SX series? [Re: Davdoc] #2607081
01/22/17 03:22 AM
01/22/17 03:22 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,550
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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terminaldegree  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,550
Georgia, USA
I believe there were two on display- one in the premium piano room (by appointment only this year) and another in the main Yamaha room. If I recall my conversation with the product designers (note: this conversation was not happening in their native language), I believe only the premium room piano had the latest refinements to the rim (this was among the first of the production models in the world).

My group was evenly split on which piano they liked best in the room between the S7X and the new Bösendorfer 214VC.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Yamaha SX series? [Re: Rich Galassini] #2607104
01/22/17 06:09 AM
01/22/17 06:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 867
Germany
patH Offline
500 Post Club Member
patH  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 867
Germany
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
These pianos (the SX series) are being officially unveiled at NAMM as I write this. The general public and, even their dealers, have not yet even seen them, let alone played them.

Just yesterday I met with Hugh Sung and Domenic Cicchetti for a private look at these pianos. Domenic Cicchetti is a jazz pianist who played for Liza Minnelli for 15 years, Meatloaf for 4 years, and has had a career within the music industry with Technics, Steinway, and now Yamaha.

I will put up a brief video as soon as I upload it so everyone here can get a "first taste".
Will they really call it "Yamaha SX"?
I just googled Yamaha sx, and got plenty of hits for motor bikes.


Everything is possible, and nothing is sure.
Re: Yamaha SX series? [Re: Davdoc] #2607120
01/22/17 08:07 AM
01/22/17 08:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13
C
colcha Offline
Junior Member
colcha  Offline
Junior Member
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13


Yamaha C3X
Re: Yamaha SX series? [Re: terminaldegree] #2607130
01/22/17 08:54 AM
01/22/17 08:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 269
Maryland, USA
D
Davdoc Offline OP
Full Member
Davdoc  Offline OP
Full Member
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 269
Maryland, USA
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
I believe there were two on display- one in the premium piano room (by appointment only this year) and another in the main Yamaha room. If I recall my conversation with the product designers (note: this conversation was not happening in their native language), I believe only the premium room piano had the latest refinements to the rim (this was among the first of the production models in the world).

My group was evenly split on which piano they liked best in the room between the S7X and the new Bösendorfer 214VC.


It's also interesting how Yamaha prices the SX series (on MSRP) to define its market segment. Apparently they consider it lower than CF series, S7X being "cheaper" than CF4 on the website.

Aesthetics-aside (such as plate finish), the only superficially visible differences I could tell, as a total lay person, between CF6 and C6X are open pin block, thicker (outer?) rim, and one or two more bolts securing the plate to the rim of CF6. I wonder what's different, aside from the A.R.E. Yahama talks about, of SX series to the 'older' S, CX, or CF series.


1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
Kawai MP11

Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5
Re: Yamaha SX series? [Re: Davdoc] #2607330
01/22/17 07:37 PM
01/22/17 07:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,034
San Francisco Bay Area
master88er Offline
1000 Post Club Member
master88er  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,034
San Francisco Bay Area
From my observations at the NAMM show, the main differences on both the Yamaha SX series and Bösendorfer VC series (from their brand counterparts) is in the rim. Both are incorporating harder woods: for example, the Bosie VC now incorporates Beech, something that the German manufacturers have been using for decades.

It's interesting that the marketing material, introducing this "revelation" states "The greatest challenge lay in the further development of the resonance case principle... because a maximum of resonance and ability to project sound should be achieved. The acoustic construction is thereby the most important and decisive area for building an outstanding concert grand piano" Pianos like Hamburg Steinway, Steingraeber, Grotrian, Bluthner, Sauter etc. have known this for centuries.

Better late than never... I guess. smirk


Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
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Re: Yamaha SX series? [Re: master88er] #2607493
01/23/17 09:24 AM
01/23/17 09:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,182
First Town, First State
BrianDX Offline
2000 Post Club Member
BrianDX  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,182
First Town, First State
Originally Posted by master88er
From my observations at the NAMM show, the main differences on both the Yamaha SX series and Bösendorfer VC series (from their brand counterparts) is in the rim. Both are incorporating harder woods: for example, the Bosie VC now incorporates Beech, something that the German manufacturers have been using for decades.

It's interesting that the marketing material, introducing this "revelation" states "The greatest challenge lay in the further development of the resonance case principle... because a maximum of resonance and ability to project sound should be achieved. The acoustic construction is thereby the most important and decisive area for building an outstanding concert grand piano" Pianos like Hamburg Steinway, Steingraeber, Grotrian, Bluthner, Sauter etc. have known this for centuries.

Better late than never... I guess. smirk

Wow; A passive/agressive comment at Yamaha.

Note the words Further development.


Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho Marx: "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."
Curriculum: Faber Developing Artist (Book 3)
Current: German Dance in D Major (Haydn) (OF); Melody (Schumann) (OF)
Re: Yamaha SX series? [Re: Davdoc] #2607531
01/23/17 12:16 PM
01/23/17 12:16 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,550
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
4000 Post Club Member
terminaldegree  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,550
Georgia, USA
To be fair, the one manufacturer is marketed rather strongly on tradition, and is in many ways built with that in mind (composers who wrote music for a specific model they still produce, and a couple of piano designs which are well over 100 years old). They've been extremely careful to make sure recent design changes are well liked by pianists and brand afficionadi, who are used to their signature sound.

The other manufacturer is likely trying to produce a tonal improvement that is easily implemented to the production targets of a much more prolific line. Nobody else has been able to produce pianos of that "landed" quality/consistency in similar numbers (there may be better pianos out there, but built in much smaller numbers than the demand for 7'6" Yamahas). I believe the S7X was built to slot against the Steinway B in certain situations, offering a longer length and some premium features, while being a lower cost piano than the extremely expensive CF line.

Both are daunting undertakings to revise or enhance what are considered successful models, and I can't imagine the pressure that was on the design teams to achieve a result that makes everyone happy.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Yamaha SX series? [Re: Davdoc] #2607640
01/23/17 05:04 PM
01/23/17 05:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,634
USA
8
8 Octaves Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015
8 Octaves  Offline

Gold Supporter until July 22 2015

8
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,634
USA
Originally Posted by Davdoc
It's also interesting how Yamaha prices the SX series (on MSRP) to define its market segment. Apparently they consider it lower than CF series, S7X being "cheaper" than CF4 on the website.

Aesthetics-aside (such as plate finish), the only superficially visible differences I could tell, as a total lay person, between CF6 and C6X are open pin block, thicker (outer?) rim, and one or two more bolts securing the plate to the rim of CF6. I wonder what's different, aside from the A.R.E. Yahama talks about, of SX series to the 'older' S, CX, or CF series.


The CF4 and CF6 are hand-crafted without robotic automation in the CFX concert grand workshop in small numbers. The labor involved in producing a hand-crafted piano is significantly more than a mass-produced one. Also, the materials selected for CF4 and CF6 are of the same quality as the CFX. Basically, they are a mini-CFX.

The CX are made in a giant automated factory, using less than absolute-most-premium materials compared to CF, and the workers, I'm sure are excellent, are not the same master craftsmen at the CFX workshop. (Nevertheless, I love my C3X!)

Yamaha does not mention hand-crafted anywhere in the SX marketing description. I would guess that's why a S7X would cost less than a CF6.

Re: Yamaha SX series? [Re: terminaldegree] #2608610
01/26/17 09:59 AM
01/26/17 09:59 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,077
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Rich Galassini  Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,077
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
To be fair, the one manufacturer is marketed rather strongly on tradition, and is in many ways built with that in mind (composers who wrote music for a specific model they still produce, and a couple of piano designs which are well over 100 years old). They've been extremely careful to make sure recent design changes are well liked by pianists and brand afficionadi, who are used to their signature sound.

The other manufacturer is likely trying to produce a tonal improvement that is easily implemented to the production targets of a much more prolific line. Nobody else has been able to produce pianos of that "landed" quality/consistency in similar numbers (there may be better pianos out there, but built in much smaller numbers than the demand for 7'6" Yamahas). I believe the S7X was built to slot against the Steinway B in certain situations, offering a longer length and some premium features, while being a lower cost piano than the extremely expensive CF line.

Both are daunting undertakings to revise or enhance what are considered successful models, and I can't imagine the pressure that was on the design teams to achieve a result that makes everyone happy.


Absolutely well said.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
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