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Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: spanishbuddha] #2606309
01/19/17 11:42 PM
01/19/17 11:42 PM
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Dave Ferris Offline
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They had about a half dozen RD2000s to play, no lines. Not good phones - Roland's own - but I've heard worse. Definitely better then the Fostex phones Nord were using.

The action - wow, very nice ! On par with the CP4 definitely (I stilll prefer the CFX sample on the CP4 though). And blows away the Nord piano 3 as far as playability. The player connection is the best I've ever experienced on a Roland keyboard , and yes better then the RD800. It also meshes well with the main V-Piano sample. And that sounds even in all the registers. No notes jumping out. Jazz single note lines felt / sounded smooth and phrases were easy to connect. Something I've always had problems with on all Roland pianos in the past.

Part of the bad -- I had to deal with a EDM/ DJ production 25 yards away that was ridiculously over the top LOUD. Luckily I came in on the tail end of it and only had to endure about 7 minutes.

I found the FP-90 to play but another electronic production was starting…of course at ear splitting volume level. So I just had a short play the FP-90 in less then ideal conditions compared to the RD2000 -- I liked the player connection better on the 2000 then the 90. It sounded crisper and an overall more sophisticated sound -- more of a Pro feeling and sounding keyboard where the 90 gave me the impression of a home hobbyist . Could be a better DAC in the 2000 ? You could somewhat tell the action was the same but the 2000 felt easier and more fun to play. To be fair I didn't spend all that long on the 90 -- I really wanted to get out of there at that point because of the sonic pollution.

I like the design of the 2000. I didn't try to lift it but the depth gives the keyboard a somewhat compact look. It didn't seem overly long either.

I didn't try any editing or any EP, pad or organ sounds. I did do a LH bass split with the Ac. bass. That's not on par with the CP4's but it's good.

I think everyone will highly dig this keyboard. thumb cool

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Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606320
01/20/17 12:22 AM
01/20/17 12:22 AM
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RD-2000 looks sweet! But I think that I'll keep my RD-800 for a while longer. My best investment at this point would be into piano lessons!


Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800, Alesis VI61, Pianoteq 6.0
My motto: Play and Let Play!
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606329
01/20/17 01:15 AM
01/20/17 01:15 AM
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the Netherlands
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for stage the FP-90 might be less than ideal - another thread detailed how the user was disgruntled at sounds cutting out switching between engines - the RD2000 thread detailed that it has tone remain
https://youtu.be/qsAqsLX10uQ?t=307


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Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606368
01/20/17 06:58 AM
01/20/17 06:58 AM
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Vught, The Netherlands
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More information ...

I had arranged to meet with the seller tomorrow to pick up the RD800. It was mentioned earlier that the keyboard was three months old and that he had the receipt.

I mentioned in passing that I would want to see that receipt when I pick up the piano. I'm now told that he by accident gave that away when selling other keyboards he had for sale.

I'm reasonably sure this guy is honest, but I'm going to pass on this. I'll wait. If a job comes in where I need a keyboard, I'll will rent one from a friend.

Thanks everyone for your advice.





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Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606391
01/20/17 08:11 AM
01/20/17 08:11 AM
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I know from my dealer I could get brand new receipt printed out - they keep those records..


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Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606401
01/20/17 08:54 AM
01/20/17 08:54 AM
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Boynton Beach, FL
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Out of curiosity, why do you require a receipt? Does the Roland warranty transfer to 2nd users or something?


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Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Morodiene] #2606405
01/20/17 09:00 AM
01/20/17 09:00 AM
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Germany
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I would assume that the receipt would be the proof that the piano is indeed only 3 months old, as claimed by the seller.

Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606407
01/20/17 09:05 AM
01/20/17 09:05 AM
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At least in the EU, warranty is transferrable - the mandatory 1 or 2 year manufacturer's warranty. Additional free warranty or extra warranty purchased on top is not transferrable - but a seller can cooperate when this warranty is needed of course..


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Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Ferris] #2606415
01/20/17 09:28 AM
01/20/17 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris


I found the FP-90 to play but another electronic production was starting…of course at ear splitting volume level. So I just had a short play the FP-90 in less then ideal conditions compared to the RD2000 -- I liked the player connection better on the 2000 then the 90. It sounded crisper and an overall more sophisticated sound -- more of a Pro feeling and sounding keyboard where the 90 gave me the impression of a home hobbyist . Could be a better DAC in the 2000 ? You could somewhat tell the action was the same but the 2000 felt easier and more fun to play.


I always find this very strange. I also see comments like this with regards to the Kawai piano's, even if people are using headphones.

If the action is the same (which it is between the FP-90 and RD-2000) and te engine is the same (which is probably the case as well), both piano's should play and sound the same when played through the same headphones, if the settings are the same.


Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606418
01/20/17 09:38 AM
01/20/17 09:38 AM
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The modeling engine may be the same (or very similar, Roland may have made tweaks to it when they renamed it to the v-piano engine). Also the modelling may be different (just as they constantly tweaked supernatural pianos while keeping the name), there is no telling that "Concert Grand" is the same between rd2k and FP90.

Dave, all of my pianos have stickers with build dates (month/year) on them. And they were all within a couple of months of purchase. Would it save your decision for the rd800 is the seller could look for that and verify the age of the unit is less than, say 6 months old?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Morodiene] #2606421
01/20/17 09:49 AM
01/20/17 09:49 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,408
Vught, The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Out of curiosity, why do you require a receipt? Does the Roland warranty transfer to 2nd users or something?


Well, the seller stated that the piano was three months old. In earlier communication (or on the original selling page), it was stated there was a receipt to show that piano was recently purchased.

It just slightly bothered me that I learn at the last minute that the receipt was mistakenly given away when he sold other equipment.

I'm sure this guy is honest. He claims that someone else is interested in the piano, so that's that.

If he wants me to buy the piano, he knows what to do. Since the piano is supposedly only three months old, a receipt would be a good selling point for me if I were to sell that piano a few years on, right?



website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Falsch] #2606440
01/20/17 11:14 AM
01/20/17 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Falsch

If the action is the same (which it is between the FP-90 and RD-2000) and te engine is the same (which is probably the case as well), both piano's should play and sound the same when played through the same headphones, if the settings are the same.

I agree, but it is somehow part of our human nature to validate the most expensive and ''latest greatest''as the best.

The original Yamaha KX88 is seen as one of the best controller keyboards ever, due to it's wooden action and more......Strangely enough every Yamaha S,P and CP have received ''upgraded'' actions compared to the previous model.
If that were true than the original KX88 would totally pale compared with todays latest Yamaha stage piano offerings...
But, i still read on various forums that the original KX88 was/IS still one of the best....
I personally don't fall for the action upgrades (sound upgrades are more accurate and audible now and then) it is a travesty that has gone way out of proportion.....
Read how people rave about the extremely precise Roland PHA-III action in the V-piano when it came out.
and how every new action is clearly superiour than what was ''super duper'' in the first place.
And of course everyone can clearly feel that the PHA-50 is the next best thing untill the PHA-50+ comes along......''now that will be considered a major upgrade from the original PHA-50''.

And then someone buys a secondhand Kawai MP9000 or Yamaha KX88 from Ebay to publically state that those are the best actions he/she ever encountered.
I still use a Kawai MP8, test each and every new model when it comes out (most brands) and i have found nothing really worth to upgrade and a vast majority of latest ''super duper triple sensored actions'' that are so inferiour compared to the MP8 that i sometimes cannot believe what is said about those new hot actions.

People should test blinfolded only and choose what comes out as the ''winner''.
Even a good 1983 Violin was chosen over a Stradivarius without measerable pricetag by professional violinists who were blindfolded but could play the thing in realtime.
Some even ''heard/felt'' the soul of the true ancient Italien master in the 1983 violin that they had mistaken for a Stradivarius.
And many similar tests have showed how gullible we can be when we are fead with secondary info (flagship, latest greatest, upgrade, brandname, price, famous endorser etc.) that clearly clouds our perception.


Last edited by pianistje; 01/20/17 11:24 AM.
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606441
01/20/17 11:18 AM
01/20/17 11:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,524
Boynton Beach, FL
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Out of curiosity, why do you require a receipt? Does the Roland warranty transfer to 2nd users or something?


Well, the seller stated that the piano was three months old. In earlier communication (or on the original selling page), it was stated there was a receipt to show that piano was recently purchased.

It just slightly bothered me that I learn at the last minute that the receipt was mistakenly given away when he sold other equipment.

I'm sure this guy is honest. He claims that someone else is interested in the piano, so that's that.

If he wants me to buy the piano, he knows what to do. Since the piano is supposedly only three months old, a receipt would be a good selling point for me if I were to sell that piano a few years on, right?

I don't know. I've never asked for it when buying used stuff. Now having the original box and manuals, that's what would be nice. I'm sure you can tell from the condition of the unit how old it is, or rather, how well-kept it was. Something that's been banged around for 3 months could be pretty bad, or pristine.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: pianistje] #2606457
01/20/17 12:12 PM
01/20/17 12:12 PM
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Finland
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clothearednincompo Online content
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Originally Posted by pianistje
The original Yamaha KX88 is seen as one of the best controller keyboards ever, due to it's wooden action and more......


Plastic action, actually.

Somebody had to say it, so I might as well do it. wink

Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: clothearednincompo] #2606462
01/20/17 12:39 PM
01/20/17 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Originally Posted by pianistje
The original Yamaha KX88 is seen as one of the best controller keyboards ever, due to it's wooden action and more......


Plastic action, actually.

Somebody had to say it, so I might as well do it. wink

Wooden keys of course and a plastic mechanism,

Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: clothearednincompo] #2606466
01/20/17 01:03 PM
01/20/17 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Originally Posted by pianistje
The original Yamaha KX88 is seen as one of the best controller keyboards ever, due to it's wooden action and more......


Plastic action, actually.

Somebody had to say it, so I might as well do it. wink


I was always sure it had a wooden action. I even think I've played one and noted the wood keys but I must've imagined it. It was only recently that I remembered what the unique thing about them was. It was an oil damped action, not a conventional hammer action. I've also got it into my head that Roland used exactly the same action on one or two of their early DPs and controllers.


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano 3 | Dexibell Vivo P7 | Yamaha CLP 645
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606470
01/20/17 01:23 PM
01/20/17 01:23 PM
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How about we put a little more credence into the opinion of the guy who actually went and played and listened to the instrument - instead of those who never have...

Just my .02




Last edited by polo1; 01/20/17 02:01 PM.
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: pianistje] #2606478
01/20/17 01:51 PM
01/20/17 01:51 PM
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Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted by pianistje

I agree, but it is somehow part of our human nature to validate the most expensive and ''latest greatest''as the best.

The original Yamaha KX88 is seen as one of the best controller keyboards ever, due to it's wooden action and more......Strangely enough every Yamaha S,P and CP have received ''upgraded'' actions compared to the previous model.
If that were true than the original KX88 would totally pale compared with todays latest Yamaha stage piano offerings...
But, i still read on various forums that the original KX88 was/IS still one of the best....
I personally don't fall for the action upgrades (sound upgrades are more accurate and audible now and then) it is a travesty that has gone way out of proportion.....
Read how people rave about the extremely precise Roland PHA-III action in the V-piano when it came out.
and how every new action is clearly superiour than what was ''super duper'' in the first place.
And of course everyone can clearly feel that the PHA-50 is the next best thing untill the PHA-50+ comes along......''now that will be considered a major upgrade from the original PHA-50''.

And then someone buys a secondhand Kawai MP9000 or Yamaha KX88 from Ebay to publically state that those are the best actions he/she ever encountered.
I still use a Kawai MP8, test each and every new model when it comes out (most brands) and i have found nothing really worth to upgrade and a vast majority of latest ''super duper triple sensored actions'' that are so inferiour compared to the MP8 that i sometimes cannot believe what is said about those new hot actions.

People should test blinfolded only and choose what comes out as the ''winner''.
Even a good 1983 Violin was chosen over a Stradivarius without measerable pricetag by professional violinists who were blindfolded but could play the thing in realtime.
Some even ''heard/felt'' the soul of the true ancient Italien master in the 1983 violin that they had mistaken for a Stradivarius.
And many similar tests have showed how gullible we can be when we are fead with secondary info (flagship, latest greatest, upgrade, brandname, price, famous endorser etc.) that clearly clouds our perception.

Of course, and YMMV for pretty much every opinion that's out there on actions and sound. But I certainly don't begrudge anyone wanting to buy something new, nor do I begrudge these companies trying to come up with newer and better. In the end, I do benefit when I'm looking to buy something.

So if you're satisfied with what you have and you don't suffer from GAS and you don't have immense amounts of disposable income lying around, then great. But for those who actually like how a new action feels or they buy into hype about it, well, let them have their fun. smile


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Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: polo1] #2606492
01/20/17 02:37 PM
01/20/17 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by polo1
How about we put a little more credence into the opinion of the guy who actually went and played and listened to the instrument - instead of those who never have...

Just my .02


Thank you. smile Again I was playing both under adverse conditions. But I still feel I can tell the player connection difference between two instruments …specs aside.

And I like I posted yesterday before I went down :

Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
.I'm curious to try out this new Roland action. If I like it, I could see the FP-90 for home use only replacing the CP5. I don't need all those features of the 2000 , plus the internal speakers are something I really would want.


I certainly haven't ruled out the FP-90 but on first play I did prefer the sound and feel of the RD2000. But the internal speakers are a high priority with me for here in the office. I'm in no hurry - I wouldn't be taking either DP out. I'm still perfectly happy with the CP4 for gigs. I'll just wait till both hit the GCs or where ever the FP-90 can be played.

Last edited by Dave Ferris; 01/20/17 02:51 PM. Reason: added thoughts
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606493
01/20/17 02:41 PM
01/20/17 02:41 PM
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If I had to choose between the two Rolands, I'd quite easily choose the RD-2000 just based on the greatly improved tone quality.

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