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help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? #2605987
01/19/17 09:00 AM
01/19/17 09:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,388
Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Online content OP
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I recently sold my CP5 for €1000, a fair price for me and the guy who bought it.

I now have my eye on a very slightly used, three month old RD800 for €1300, a mere €300 out of pocket for an essentially new stage piano.

The RD2000 just came out and I suspect the price here will be around €2300. (The suggested price might be €2500 but I'm willing to bet the dealer will sell it to me for €2300.)

I'm at a loss on what to do. Suggestions?



website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
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Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2605990
01/19/17 09:11 AM
01/19/17 09:11 AM
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Boynton Beach, FL
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I guess it depends on what you will use it for and if you need the added features of the 2000 enough to justify the extra expense.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2605991
01/19/17 09:16 AM
01/19/17 09:16 AM
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EssBrace Online content
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For me it would be about which is the best piano for my ears and my touch. I assume the RD-2000 is about more than just additional features. We know it has a superior (well, updated) action. And it would appear to have a different piano sound engine.

Judging purely from what we already know (and a rather underwhelming short test of an RD-800 at my nearest dealer last year) I'd go RD-2000.

I may have missed it in other threads but Dave, have you ruled out CP4 and/or MP7, and if so, why?

Last edited by EssBrace; 01/19/17 09:18 AM.

Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano 3 | Dexibell Vivo P7
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2605992
01/19/17 09:19 AM
01/19/17 09:19 AM
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Keep this in mind:

1. Better piano sounds
2. Improved action
3. Brand new
4. Covered under warranty
5. Even though it costs more, it will be worth more when you eventually sell it



Roland FP-90; Yamaha MX49; Pianoteq 5 + most add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X; Focusrite Saffire 2i2; For performing: Yamaha PSR-S970; FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic.
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Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: EssBrace] #2605998
01/19/17 09:33 AM
01/19/17 09:33 AM
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Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Online content OP
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I may have missed it in other threads but Dave, have you ruled out CP4 and/or MP7, and if so, why?


I tried the MP11 (and the ES8 ...?) but didn't like the physical looks of it. I was also surprised that the default piano on the MP11 was not to my liking, I preferred the third piano in the menu, the Jazz Piano.

The CP4 seemed a lot like the CP5 and I wasn't interested in selling my CP5 just to buy a CP4, I wanted something more different. I was also amazed at the stupid placement of the headphone output, smack dab in the middle of the keyboard. What were they thinking?

I narrowed my choice essentially down to the Roland RD800 and now Roland has come out with a replacement for the RD800.

I'm also looking at resale value as well. If I buy the RD800 for €1300 I should be able to sell that for €1000 or so in three years _if_ Roland keeps the selling price of the RD2000 high.

A new RD800 can be had here for €1850.

I don't have much work at all and when I do play it's usually acoustic. I just wanted a new toy to play with, one that makes sense to sell at a decent price in three, four, or five years.

There's also something nice about having the latest keyboard.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606004
01/19/17 09:45 AM
01/19/17 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
There's also something nice about having the latest keyboard.


You said it. As long as you do actually like it you'll be future proof for three years at least with the RD-2000.

Yes, take your point on the MP11. I like the appearance of ES8 and MP7 though. But that's just personal preference. And like you I would feel like the CP4 was such a small incremental upgrade (if any at all) although bear in mind Dave Ferris's observations. I think he likes the CP4 a good deal better than the CP5 (which he also liked).

You may scoff (and I can't yet talk from personal experience) but the action in the Nord Piano 3 is receiving plenty of praise and seems to be regarded as a very significantly better action than Nord Piano 1 or 2. It has a small footprint and is easy to cart about. And those piano sounds...to die for!

For the brief period when the RD-800 and RD-2000 are available simultaneously I reckon there'll be some tasty deals on the last of the RD-800s so I don't think you need to hurry the decision.


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano 3 | Dexibell Vivo P7
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606007
01/19/17 09:49 AM
01/19/17 09:49 AM
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I really have no advice about RD800 vs RD2000, just two general things:
Quote
If I buy the RD800 for €1300 I should be able to sell that for €1000

Aren't you being overly optimistic about the resale value in 3 years? A 3.25 year old used board with two prior owners that has been superceded three years ago (at that time), is supposed to drop only €300 in the next 3 years? I'm no expert, so I could be wrong, but for a lay person, it seems optimistic...

And: As I understand you, part of your motivation for selling the CP5 and getting the RD800 was to "get something new". Now ask yourself: How satisfied would you be with this "something new" if you knew that it actually isn't "new" but "previous generation"?

It feels like you want us to convince you to go for the RD2000. smile Well, if your budget supports it, I would say go for it! grin

Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606008
01/19/17 09:53 AM
01/19/17 09:53 AM
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After watching all the new RD2000 videos I went and played my RD800 for a while. Absolutely no need for me to updgrade. I find my own edited piano patches to sound just as good as in the videos (some even better). I don't use the stock sounds at all. They're too stiff and un-organic.

Good luck with your decission.


Roland RD800, EV ZXA-1.
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: JoBert] #2606011
01/19/17 10:01 AM
01/19/17 10:01 AM
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Vught, The Netherlands
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Aren't you being overly optimistic about the resale value in 3 years? A 3.25 year old used board with two prior owners that has been superceded three years ago (at that time), is supposed to drop only €300 in the next 3 years? I'm no expert, so I could be wrong, but for a lay person, it seems optimistic...

I bought my CP5 for €2150 when the going price was €2300. I sold it six years later for €1000. That was a fair price though the keyboard was six years old.

One issue with the RD2000 is the width. My flight case would have to be altered, (removing the side foam material and replacing it with something thinner). I'm also sure the width of the RD2000 poses problems with other folks as well.

The RD800 should fit in my flight case with no alterations at all. Nothing is as easy as it seems.





website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: EssBrace] #2606038
01/19/17 11:09 AM
01/19/17 11:09 AM
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Glendale, Ca.
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I'm heading out shortly to go down there today. Definitely want to attempt to play the RD2000 and report back with a general idea or a fwiw first impression of it.

I just hope that #1 -- they have a generous amount of units set up so you don't have stand in a long line to play. I don't stand in a line to play a digital piano. wink
#2- the headphones they provide aren't $35 / Radio Shack quality.

Agree on all counts on the MP11. Best action in a stage piano available, yet Kawai piano sounds aren't my thing. The jazz piano was the only one that would work for me and I still prefer Yamaha sound and player connection.

I do think the CP4 is a significant upgrade from the CP5, both action and sound. And of course weight. I do still like the CP5 for home but the action is getting a little light for me these days.

I'm curious to try out this new Roland action. If I like it I, could see the FP-90 for home replacing the CP5. I don't need all those features of the 2000 , plus the internal speakers are something I really would want. At 10 lbs. heavier then the CP4, that pretty much rules out the RD2000 for me for gigs.

Hope to come back with a good report on it though. smile


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606047
01/19/17 11:41 AM
01/19/17 11:41 AM
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I think the RD-800 will hold up its price for a few years. Roland's stage pianos aren't too common on the used market and they go pretty high from what I've seen. It's hard to find an rd-300nx for under $900 for instance.

IMO $1300 is really good right now for an rd-800, if you buy that you could still sell it in a year andmake your money back (or more) if you decide you want to upgrade to the 2000.

I'm as much of a GAS guy as the next, and the 2000 looks amazing, but if I had an 800 I don't think I'd be running out for an update unless I really needed the new performance/gigging functions.

Here's another question: of you mainly want acoustic piano and are set on Roland's best sound and action in a slab, how about an FP90 for ~$1700?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606056
01/19/17 12:05 PM
01/19/17 12:05 PM
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If you really want the RD2000, and you're pinching pennies, you could get the RD800 now and then wait until Black Friday in December to buy the RD2000 and then sell the RD800 for close to the same price.

I don't know if they have the same deals in Europe as they do here, but I was able to get a mind-boggling deal on the FP90 that I couldn't get now.


Roland FP-90; Yamaha MX49; Pianoteq 5 + most add-ons; 2 Yamaha HS8s; ATH-M50X; Focusrite Saffire 2i2; For performing: Yamaha PSR-S970; FBT Maxx 2a's, Crowne Headset Mic.
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606091
01/19/17 01:21 PM
01/19/17 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
I recently sold my CP5 for €1000, a fair price for me and the guy who bought it.

I now have my eye on a very slightly used, three month old RD800 for €1300, a mere €300 out of pocket for an essentially new stage piano.

The RD2000 just came out and I suspect the price here will be around €2300. (The suggested price might be €2500 but I'm willing to bet the dealer will sell it to me for €2300.)

I'm at a loss on what to do. Suggestions?



Option 1: RD800 + Pianoteq = modelled piano plus SN samples with old interface.

Option 2: RD2000 = all in one instrument, new interface.

Look at photo of both interfaces, maybe test the RD800. Decide whether the newer interface or functionality is something you would make use of. Decide whether you like Pianoteq better than SN-Vpiano technology pianos in the RD2000.

I think that unless you're in a band with the requirement for amazing array of sounds/rhythms etc, the MP7 plus pianoteq will be just as good for most peoples needs (I prefer the Kawai epianos for eg). Many who play live want the modelled pianos built in to avoid laptop crash related failure.

Ask yourself: what extra functionality do I actually want over and above the FP-90?

I guess it's down to: "What do you want specifically Dave?"


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606093
01/19/17 01:26 PM
01/19/17 01:26 PM
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FP-90 is a good call. The basic principle piano sounds will be the same or similar, albeit with fewer options for customisation on the FP-90. Same action. Better form factor (for Dave's needs). decent-ish built in speakers. Cheaper. And available now to audition/buy. Worth thinking about...


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano 3 | Dexibell Vivo P7
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Beakybird] #2606107
01/19/17 01:51 PM
01/19/17 01:51 PM
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Vught, The Netherlands
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If you really want the RD2000, and you're pinching pennies, you could get the RD800 now and then wait until Black Friday in December to buy the RD2000 and then sell the RD800 for close to the same price.

That's essentially what my wife suggested.

If that guy still hasn't sold that RD800 I think I'll buy it and hold on to it until the prices drop on the RD2000.

I can afford to take my time.

Thanks.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606129
01/19/17 02:27 PM
01/19/17 02:27 PM
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The person selling their 800 put it up for sale just in time - before the new 2000 came out.

I wonder why they are REALLY selling the 800? smile


Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606149
01/19/17 03:04 PM
01/19/17 03:04 PM
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The FP-90 is interesting, for sure. I don't think it has a compressor, and I'll bet the EQ options (3-band, I think) aren't as good as those on the RD-800. There's one "Ambience" setting, not the kind of fully-adjustable reverb / echo / delay you'd get in a purpose-built stage piano. And it doesn't have drawbars, a nice feature on the RD-800.

For band use, the subtleties of "SuperNatural modeling" might not mean much, compared to the plain (and well-proven) "SuperNatural" (sampled) sounds on the RD-800.



. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: polo1] #2606173
01/19/17 03:51 PM
01/19/17 03:51 PM
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Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Online content OP
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Originally Posted by polo1
The person selling their 800 put it up for sale just in time - before the new 2000 came out.

I wonder why they are REALLY selling the 800? smile



I asked why he was selling the keyboard. His answer was that he has arthritis and playing is too painful. He also has a lot of other equipment for sale as well.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606175
01/19/17 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
Originally Posted by polo1
The person selling their 800 put it up for sale just in time - before the new 2000 came out.

I wonder why they are REALLY selling the 800? smile



I asked why he was selling the keyboard. His answer was that he has arthritis and playing is too painful. He also has a lot of other equipment for sale as well.


Ah... that's too bad... frown


Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606178
01/19/17 03:58 PM
01/19/17 03:58 PM
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It's not clear to me, picking up on Morodienne's point, you have justified why the RD2000 over the RD800, other than it's the newer version of the model series. Always nice to have the latest when changing or upgrading, but not always necessary.

Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: spanishbuddha] #2606309
01/19/17 11:42 PM
01/19/17 11:42 PM
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They had about a half dozen RD2000s to play, no lines. Not good phones - Roland's own - but I've heard worse. Definitely better then the Fostex phones Nord were using.

The action - wow, very nice ! On par with the CP4 definitely (I stilll prefer the CFX sample on the CP4 though). And blows away the Nord piano 3 as far as playability. The player connection is the best I've ever experienced on a Roland keyboard , and yes better then the RD800. It also meshes well with the main V-Piano sample. And that sounds even in all the registers. No notes jumping out. Jazz single note lines felt / sounded smooth and phrases were easy to connect. Something I've always had problems with on all Roland pianos in the past.

Part of the bad -- I had to deal with a EDM/ DJ production 25 yards away that was ridiculously over the top LOUD. Luckily I came in on the tail end of it and only had to endure about 7 minutes.

I found the FP-90 to play but another electronic production was starting…of course at ear splitting volume level. So I just had a short play the FP-90 in less then ideal conditions compared to the RD2000 -- I liked the player connection better on the 2000 then the 90. It sounded crisper and an overall more sophisticated sound -- more of a Pro feeling and sounding keyboard where the 90 gave me the impression of a home hobbyist . Could be a better DAC in the 2000 ? You could somewhat tell the action was the same but the 2000 felt easier and more fun to play. To be fair I didn't spend all that long on the 90 -- I really wanted to get out of there at that point because of the sonic pollution.

I like the design of the 2000. I didn't try to lift it but the depth gives the keyboard a somewhat compact look. It didn't seem overly long either.

I didn't try any editing or any EP, pad or organ sounds. I did do a LH bass split with the Ac. bass. That's not on par with the CP4's but it's good.

I think everyone will highly dig this keyboard. thumb cool


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606320
01/20/17 12:22 AM
01/20/17 12:22 AM
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RD-2000 looks sweet! But I think that I'll keep my RD-800 for a while longer. My best investment at this point would be into piano lessons!


Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800, Alesis VI61, Pianoteq 6.0
My motto: Play and Let Play!
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606329
01/20/17 01:15 AM
01/20/17 01:15 AM
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for stage the FP-90 might be less than ideal - another thread detailed how the user was disgruntled at sounds cutting out switching between engines - the RD2000 thread detailed that it has tone remain
https://youtu.be/qsAqsLX10uQ?t=307


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Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606368
01/20/17 06:58 AM
01/20/17 06:58 AM
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More information ...

I had arranged to meet with the seller tomorrow to pick up the RD800. It was mentioned earlier that the keyboard was three months old and that he had the receipt.

I mentioned in passing that I would want to see that receipt when I pick up the piano. I'm now told that he by accident gave that away when selling other keyboards he had for sale.

I'm reasonably sure this guy is honest, but I'm going to pass on this. I'll wait. If a job comes in where I need a keyboard, I'll will rent one from a friend.

Thanks everyone for your advice.





website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606391
01/20/17 08:11 AM
01/20/17 08:11 AM
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I know from my dealer I could get brand new receipt printed out - they keep those records..


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Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606401
01/20/17 08:54 AM
01/20/17 08:54 AM
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Out of curiosity, why do you require a receipt? Does the Roland warranty transfer to 2nd users or something?


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Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Morodiene] #2606405
01/20/17 09:00 AM
01/20/17 09:00 AM
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I would assume that the receipt would be the proof that the piano is indeed only 3 months old, as claimed by the seller.

Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606407
01/20/17 09:05 AM
01/20/17 09:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,221
the Netherlands
Goss Offline
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Goss  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,221
the Netherlands
At least in the EU, warranty is transferrable - the mandatory 1 or 2 year manufacturer's warranty. Additional free warranty or extra warranty purchased on top is not transferrable - but a seller can cooperate when this warranty is needed of course..


Roland HP605|Senheiser HD558|MSFT Surface Pro 4|coffee
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Ferris] #2606415
01/20/17 09:28 AM
01/20/17 09:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 460
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Falsch Offline
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Falsch  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 460
Originally Posted by Dave Ferris


I found the FP-90 to play but another electronic production was starting…of course at ear splitting volume level. So I just had a short play the FP-90 in less then ideal conditions compared to the RD2000 -- I liked the player connection better on the 2000 then the 90. It sounded crisper and an overall more sophisticated sound -- more of a Pro feeling and sounding keyboard where the 90 gave me the impression of a home hobbyist . Could be a better DAC in the 2000 ? You could somewhat tell the action was the same but the 2000 felt easier and more fun to play.


I always find this very strange. I also see comments like this with regards to the Kawai piano's, even if people are using headphones.

If the action is the same (which it is between the FP-90 and RD-2000) and te engine is the same (which is probably the case as well), both piano's should play and sound the same when played through the same headphones, if the settings are the same.


Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: help with a decision ... RD800 or RD2000? [Re: Dave Horne] #2606418
01/20/17 09:38 AM
01/20/17 09:38 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,089
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The modeling engine may be the same (or very similar, Roland may have made tweaks to it when they renamed it to the v-piano engine). Also the modelling may be different (just as they constantly tweaked supernatural pianos while keeping the name), there is no telling that "Concert Grand" is the same between rd2k and FP90.

Dave, all of my pianos have stickers with build dates (month/year) on them. And they were all within a couple of months of purchase. Would it save your decision for the rd800 is the seller could look for that and verify the age of the unit is less than, say 6 months old?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
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