Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Time to vent about non-qualified teachers!

Why not ..? Isn't it still valid? We revive music from ages and ages ago, so why not valid posts?

Normally I would agree with you, but in this case a quick read-through of the OP tells us that nothing has happened in the last 10 years.

People who know nothing are still teaching, and if anything the probably has gotten worse.

Typically, the original participants are long gone.

Of course, many music-related topics are still relevant. That's why you can start a new thread at any time!

Hey, you can't get rid of some of us!

I thought I recognized the thread, saw the OP by John C, a comment by yours truly, and realized that I was in a time warp.

I often learn from other people's questions. Everyone puts things in a different way, and very often comes up with questions that I may not have thought to ask myself, but, on reading them, realize and appreciate their validity.

If I had time, I would definitely browse the long-buried questions here, just like I browse and learn from the music of long-dead composers or performers.

Roll on the exhumations of zombie threads!

People like to think that certification somehow makes someone a good 'qualified' teacher. What a load of crap. The people with masters degrees that still can't teach won't suddenly become model teachers after they take a course or two. The ones that never learned piano properly in the first place won't become model teachers either. In the end the way to find a good teacher is to talk with them and their current students and look for some results. It would be nice if all it took was to look at a few letters after their names. Here in Canada there's a huge problem with the new RCM teacher certification. I'm certainly not going to fall in line with it. One of their requirements is that your students take their exams. So if you teach a whole pile of beginners and don't think they need more exams in their lives you might as well not follow their program. It's ridiculous.

Just because you have a degree in music does not mean a degree in pedagogy, or that you are good with children. Most parents do not realize an accompanist may not be a teacher may not be a soloist may not be a director may not be classroom music teacher may not be a beginning student teacher may not be good with adults, etc...let alone, oh, you teach piano, so you can also teach voice, right?


I go to piano teacher workshops, I peruse this site and individual teacher websites, I glean free worksheet pages on everything, I read the front pages in my lesson books, and I read curriculum for fun! I use the complete series (Lesson Book with matching Theory Book, etc...) .
I work with kids at my church in a semi non-music capacity, jsut to get how they act and feel, and for fun. And, to hear what they say.

There is a grumpy piano performance degreed doctor that I know who is terrible with little kids- he want the lights out and wanders around muttering while drinking coffee. No parents allowed.

But some parents want him because he plays mesmerizingly. I try to tell them that for a dedicated high schooler or adult, this is the guy you may want, to really delve into the music and the analysis of it all.

For a young elementary student, you want more of a Mary Poppins type-- High expectations, can explain concepts well, fun, but lovingly strict.

I try to be Mary Poppins.

My degree and education is average, but if you knew me, "teacher" would be used as an adjective.

And yes, this site is also used for comparisons and venting.

We are not alone when we visit here. We do not have company meetings or employee picnics, or comment cards or managers, but we have each other.

And, that is why I keep coming to visit!

I have a adult friend, nearing 60 I'd guess, who's been taking piano lessons for 6 years or so. She bought a really nice Steinway upright that I covet when she bought the new house. She takes from the teacher attached to the local music store.

I know she practices. The usual unqualified teacher complaints mentioned above don't apply - she does read, she knows note names, key signatures, can count, etc. I see different lesson books on the piano from time to time.

But after all these years she cannot yet play anything fluently, even very simple things.

That seems strange to me. Is this common?

Yep. I can't tell you how many transfer students I have had who had taken lessons from "the little old lady down the street" for several years just because she was "female and old with a grand piano, so she must be a good piano teacher" (cliches), yet the student is too afraid to play anything outside of "middle C position", plays every single barline, replies with finger numbers when I ask for note names, and is playing in method books far down the line (while refusing to move away from middle c??) from where they actually are, just because of time spent at lessons, not from actual progression.

I also have had the preteen transfer student who is playing Beethoven Sonatas already, but only the notes, missing 80% of the "musicality", and already talking about hurting while playing.

Since we are allowed to vent: Nothing irks me more than seeing my friends on Facebook who have no formal musical training at all, other than piano lessons when they were a kid, who are teaching students, have full "studios", and the kids LOVE them, but, holy cow they shouldn't be teaching at all. Met a few violin teachers like this, too...

I have one friend who finally knows better, though. She let her kid pick the teacher because the kid loved her, but lessons are not going well, so she is having her kid switch to me, and not letting her kid decide this time.

Also, I see a lot of piano teachers who have it out to not let boys succeed. We talked about this during my pedagogy training decades ago and I thought it was just someone's bias, but at one point, my studio of 54 students was made up of about 40 boys, all transfers from teachers who hated them and made it no secret sometimes. I still don't understand what that was all about, but those parents were really sad when I relocated and had to drop them all. I still feel absolutely terrible about that...

I realize I'm chiming in on this thread quite late in the game, but I just ran across it tonight. As someone who has taught and also worked in retail piano sales, I would like to share a story with you.

I had a family come in with their piano teacher a few years ago. The teacher was there to assist them with their purchase. The parents questioned why some pianos have two pedals and some have three. The 'teacher' explained the functionality of the sustain and the una corda correctly.....but, when it came time to explain the middle pedal.....her response was "Oh, you don't need to worry about that one. I've never used it and your child will never need it anyway.....I'm not sure what it's for."

*SMH* Unbelievable.

It's a built-in foot massager, right?

It does vary depending on the piano what it does. For some pianos it's a mute and it has a fixed position. For others, it's sostenuto. Either way, it's only used on a handful of pieces that I'm aware of, but certainly she should have known what it does regardless.

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for sharing the retail story!

Obviously she should have known about the middle pedal. However it's used on so few pieces, IMHO it's fine to purchase a piano with 2 pedals. My friend has a very fine Grotrian with "only" 2 pedals (not a real old piano), and my Fandrich vertical also has 2 pedals.

Now there's a way to boost new piano sales.

I am secretly happy to read a " vent about teachers" post ... we are currently looking for a new teacher ( our beloved teacher is moving :-(((. The teachers we have come across ... it is ridiculous...

I am willing to pay a fair amount for a qualified teacher with a decent instrument and basic teaching skills ... but lesson prices don't correlate with experience or skill AT ALL. We have interview capable teachers that teach on a superb instrument for $15 and obviously in-experienced teachers that teach on a keyboard ( yes a KEYBOARD - and not a nice one either) for $35 an hour.
And all teachers will try to convince us that they are just " great" ... I don't play the piano so I had to enlist the help of a friend to sit in with " trial lessons" ... We interview one teacher - who didn't play well - and my son is only about a year into it - his pieces are not challenging at all ... My friend made a comment half in joke about maybe needing practice and the " teacher" told her that she just bought the piano and didn't;t have time to play the last " few years" - yikes!
And don't get me started about teachers not listening to the need of the students ... I told every teacher when we first inquired that we are not interested in recitals and exams ( major test anxiety which tends to trigger migraines ) - if you want a student who loves to play, practices, is self driven and on the calm/ quiet side - we are your people ... if you are looking for a student that does recitals and exams - we are not a good fit ... Still .. most teacher tried to pressure my son into explaining why he doesn't want recitals and made him feel horrible for not wanting to try ( he was ashamed to admit that he gets so nauseated when stressed that he is scared to show up all over the keys - he was in tears when a teacher just ket insisting to tell them WHY no recitals ... they are FUN) ...
Sorry for the vent ... we had great teachers and I am eternally grateful for the wonderful dedicated teachers that are out there ! You guys rock

I think when confronted by the possibility of a student never being at a recital, many piano teachers would feel a great loss. You're seeing it as a communication issue. ie. the teacher is not hearing our message. The teacher is likely hearing it loud and clear, and feels that a big part of the child's piano education will be missed. To you, it's just one day that you need to avoid. To the teacher it's six or eight weeks of practicing towards a tangible goal. It's a chance to get a piece to a higher standard and get the student to memorize it.

I've taught one boy who didn't want piano recitals. I taught him for three years. But he ended up quitting. So another concern of the teacher might be that the student's staying power will be diminished.

I've thought of even not taking on students who don't participate in recitals. It's like having a family member that never shows up at Thanksgiving. It's a shame. I see my students as a group of sorts that needs to cohere at times.

The best thing would be if your son DID get the courage to gradually get in front of people and play. It could begin with asking the neighbor to come over and hear him play.

Piano is a performance art. Recitals are fun. And to be honest, I feel sorry for your son. Imagine going through life afraid of getting up in front of an audience. My father would tell such a person to "stand up and be counted!" How will he be able to handle job interviews when they include four interviewers? (I've been to such job interviews.) How will he be able to react in a medical emergency, say in a bus when he's older, and he has to react with others present?

Not all students see recitals as fun. And I know from personal experience, that not playing in recitals does not affect your ability to be a leader as an adult. Yes, You could still act in an emergency even if you have never played in a recital. Yes, your reluctance to playing in a recital does not mean that you would be reluctant to give a speech as an adult, or effectively participate in a job interview with multiple interviews.


You're creating a link that is that is not accurate for adult functioning.
In fact there are some teachers that do not believe in recitals for their students but still believe in teaching piano in a quality way.

Wow. Stop the presses! Ummmmm.... $15 - $35 an hour? How are these teachers surviving? Maybe the cost of living is very low where you live. Where I am, teachers charge twice that. Count your blessings if you can get quality instruction that cheaply.
The "teacher" couldn't play first year music? Ouch!

I've never understood this penchant across the pond for what is, effectively, showbiz foisted on often unwilling children. Like beauty pageants for little girls.

Fine if the kids enjoy public adulation, but horrible for those that don't. Like me, and most of my fellow students when I was in boarding school, when there were weekly lunchtime recitals which anyone - student or teacher, or combination of both - could sign up for. They were guaranteed a supportive audience, no matter what their standard, or what they chose to perform.

But the only ones who ever performed (apart from one or two staff members who fancied themselves as performers) were those students intending music as a career.



You are making several specious associations. Firstly, piano is only a performance art if you believe that all music-making is performance art, which is patently false. (Is religious chant a performance art?)

And secondly, many otherwise confident people who can talk in front of huge audiences crumble when they have to perform - whether sing, or play a musical instrument. I have performance anxiety when it comes to performing solo (though I have no problem singing in a choir), but for my jobs after I finished with university, I've had to go through an interview every six months, usually in front of a panel of the great and good - and succeeded in every one of them.

Oh, and by the way, I've lost count of how many lives I've saved in public situations over the years (when I've sometimes also had to order strangers to do things, in an authoritative manner - I've never had any problem doing this).
I've seen colleagues who are able to do the same, even though they are shy and meek in normal life.

Well, I agree that it's shocking that the teacher had no idea what the "middle pedal does", but I absolutely agree with "not worrying about it. I have never used it other than to demonstrate to students what it does.

By the way, on pianos I've played on I don't recall it ever working properly on an upright. All the uprights I grew up with simply had a middle pedal that either worked like a sustain pedal but with the felts lifting away only in the bass, which to me was even less than useless.

I find the sostenuto pedal something interesting to talk about, and demonstrate, but not important at all for playing.