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James P Johnson, I'd guess.

It's messy because there are not really crisp dividing lines between ragtime, novelty, stride, jazz.

120 bpm is ok, but that brings up a question.

If I play an old tune that is, say 90 bpm and I play it at 90 bpm using the bass chord stride pattern, what is that called?

I might even play some songs slower than that like 80 or 85 bpm. Do some stride players play faster than 120 bpm, because to me it does sound like some do.

If you're going to do some serious listening to stride, you should listen to :
- all the James P. Johnson solos (starting in 1921, I believe)
- all the Fats Waller solos from the 1929 session where there's Handful of Keys, etc
- anything you can find by Donald Lambert but that's a little harder to come by
- all the others: Joe Turner, Dick Wellstood, there are many others

And you will quickly realize that all tempos are represented. 220 bpm or above is not rare, but you'll also find slower
tempos (Numb Fumbling by Fats Waller on the 1929 session for example).

I said "start at 120" because it was a good starting point for me, the goal being to reach faster tempos later on.

But if you want to start slower, then fine. If you want to never play faster than 120, then fine. Do what you like!



Umm... well... I would venture to say that it's called an old tune played at 90bpm?
The tune becomes what you do with it; if you can sell it at 90bpm, or 60, or 140 it's all good.

Guys, I found this really neat piece of software that will be solve a significant portion of playing like the masters and finding out what they actually played. It slows down those fast playing tempo songs played by James P Johnson, Waller, and the stride masters and shows the actual notes the performer played on a keyboard, and naming the notes too. So even if you don't read music it shows you what keys on piano to play. It doesn't not change the key! As a matter of fact, all you have to do is do a search in its google browser for midi files then click on them and watch the built in keyboard for the notes. It has a tempo slow down and key change features too.
Check this out and let me know what you think. I downloaded a digital copy and I've been wanting something like this for a longtime. It's too good to be true. I looked at some of the notes and treasure stuff the masters do and I'm like WOW!

http://songtutorsoftware.s3.amazonaws.com/videos/songtutornow.html

Let me know what you think!

What I think is that by using this method/software, you can learn by rote exactly how they (the masters) or any other original composer or performer played it and even without needing to know how to read.

It has it's merits I suppose. I was initially taught by rote, but it came with live coaching too. As I understand it, this is just the raw goods.

If you want to exactly replicate what the greats were doing, well they are bound to be difficult arrangements if they are indeed an exact copy of what they were playing. I do not doubt they would be. I do think one would also need plenty of coaching though.

Overall I am not keen on it.

My preference would be just learn to incorporate your own stride into any piece that can use it, and in your own way. If this helps bridge a gap, or provide ideas is fine, but surely would not suggest starting with the toughest or fastest. Unless just trying to replicate a single piece or very few and not really caring about actually learning stride.

To me it is learning by rote and time would be better spent either learning to do stride from lead sheets or reading transcriptions. I think.

Hi All

I think it all has merit. If you're not a reader, or a poor reader, then reading transcriptions of the old masters is out of the question. There certainly are accurate transcriptions out there. Conversely if you don't have a great ear (that's me) then transcribing by ear is out of the question. Sure we can all improve our weak points, but I know after 45 years of playing and studying music that my ear isn't going to get any better. Stride Piano is difficult and the only way to learn it is a way that works for you. So reading it, listening to it (definitely), using software, learning by ear and making it up from lead sheets all has merit.

In the end as an amateur there are only so many hours I can devote to playing each week. If it works for you and you're happy with the results; then do it!

Cheers

Simon

Yes, I'll go along with that, nearly fully. I do not think stride is as hard as we make it out to be. Most of our exposure to stride is at break neck speed though, so maybe that is why. Once you become accustomed to it and familiar with the (common) chord patterns, it is not that tough and can be far easier than other styles.

O.o

OK Scott Joplin Fans

Does any one have a list of all of the works of Scott Joplin?

Can anyone provide me a link to a public domain site where I may download some of his music if it is not copyrighted?

I have some of it but I am sure not near all of it.

I am using the book I ordered plus some sheet music of Joplin's I have to study out how he played his bases. So far I am using Swipesy Cake Walk. The more I try playing this music, The more I like it.

I plan to play whatever speed sounds the best for each song. For sure some will be slower and some at break neck speed if I practice long enough.

I did a little research and came up with Max Morath, William Bolcom, and
William Albright. All three played, at least some numbers, slower than the main ones on U-Tube now.

What can be said about Jonny May as an instructor using computer? Any comments or information available?

Anything before 1923 is PD in the USA, and Joplin died before then IIRC, so all his stuff should be PD.

Google the "Lester S. Levy" collection at Johns Hopkins -- you can download and print PDF scans of their PD sheet music.

Thanks for the link. While searching for PD scores I came across a book by The American School of Ragtime Playing by H. J. Beckerman. He states in the Preface of the Book that Ragtime can be made very melodious when play slowly and in strict time. Published in 1918.

Following is the list of piano pieces. (He also composed some songs and an opera)

Marches

Crush Collision March
Combination March
THE ROSE-BUD MARCH
MARCH MAJESTIC

Waltzes

Syncopated

Bethena Waltz
Pleasant Moments

Non-syncopated

Bink's Waltz
Augustan Club Waltz
Harmony Club Waltz

Collaborations

Heliotrope Bouquet (Louis Chauvin)
Sensation (Joseph Lamb)
Lily Queen (Arthur Marshall)
Swipesy Cake Walk (Arthur Marshall)
Kismet Rag (Scott Hayden)
Felicity Rag (Scott Hayden)

Leaves

Maple Leaf Rag
Fig Leaf Rag
Rose Leaf Rag
Palm Leaf Rag

Plants

Gladiolus Rag
The Chrysanthemum
Sunflower SLOW DRAG
Weeping Willow
The Sycamore
SUGAR CANE RAG
PEACHERINE RAG

Girls

Antoinette March and Two-Step
Cleopha
Leola
Eugenia

Rags and other

Solace, A Mexican Serenade
The Entertainer
The Easy Winners
The Favorite
Stop-Time Rag
Reflection Rag
Paragon Rag
Wall Street Rag
Something Doing
The Strenuous Life
Scott Joplin's New Rag
Searchlight Rag
The Nonpareil
The Ragtime Dance
Magnetic Rag
Pine Apple Rag
Original Rags
EUPHONIC SOUNDS
THE CASCADES
COUNTRY CLUB
A BREEZE FROM ALABAMA
SILVER SWAN RAG
ELITE SYNCOPATIONS



All of Joplin's pieces are in the public domain and you'll be able to find the majority on imslp.org.

Take a look at this regrettably short clip of a pianist in the DC area...
https://www.facebook.com/borahmlee/videos/10150126157628266/

He sure has a fast hand. Sounds good. I wonder at my age if I can ever get my hands to move even half that fast.

I have been listening to different stride players lately. In the past I never listened to stride much except Scott Joplin's music. I have found one that plays close to what I would like to play. He is Allen Dale. He is on U-tube. He play's old tunes and some church music. I like the way he plays. There is others on U-tube I like too but I am not too much in favor of the break neck speed playing. I like to hear the melody of the song come through. I do not think I will ever improvise much, it just does not seem to be my thing. I listen to some and like it but I cannot help but wonder, where is the melody.

I am still searching around on u-tube for artist that I like the way they play. Here is another one and he plays exactly the way I would like to play stride and jazz if I ever learn enough. For sure I do not believe I will ever be near as good as he.

Check out Hank Jones on U-Tube, Oh, look at me now. His stride playing here is what I dream of being able to play like.

Maybe not. But maybe for one piece you could come close.

"Check out Hank Jones on U-Tube, Oh, look at me now."

Keep practicing. The guy is great. Good taste though, he has very good rhythm and a great sound. If you play a lot of stride, you could get there, in terms of what he is doing LH. He is mixing stride with shell chords played like block chords LH. Anyway it is effective and swings.

Not sure I understand shell chords and block chords. I have been looking at block chord vids tonight on u tube and they are hard to understand. They seem to leave out a lot of explanation about what they are doing and why.

A shell I think is when you play the Root and 5th or 7th of the chord in the left hand. The other notes of the chord plus melody go in the right hand. This is the same as discussed in my other thread, 6th, 7th, 9th chords. I think.

Block Chords, I am lost and I understand, all mixed together. If I understand it correctly you almost change chord on each melody note - C, D, E, G becomes CM, dm, em, G7 in your right hand with a melody note on top, while playing a C, F, or G7 chord in your l.h. in the key of C.

Then the U-Tube went on to explain that there are two ways to play block chords and my brain went dahhhhh blank.

Just meant he wasn't always playing the straight stride pattern like we were discussing earlier. I think it was in this thread . At any rate, it seemed like he was comping around more with just the shell chords without the part on top. But he switches back and forth to regular stride. Or as I remember.

Yes, a shell just leaves out notes and is as you describe. A block chord to me, is just playing the complete chord at once and more like what you would be doing at the top of the stride.

The style has nothing to do with the progression of the piece though. When Mr. Jones is playing it seems he is changing chords every beat in LH, but really he may only be changing intervals and where he plays the chords, but still following the progression of the piece.

I see what you are getting at though. I think. You can of course always get fancy (within reason) and mix things up with your own little riffs and progressions to add appeal and your own style. Fine if it comes later.