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Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
Doug M. #2603270 01/11/17 01:41 PM
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IMHO it is another of those areas where one can get obsessed about specs, and convince oneself it will improve the sound when often it is just changes the sounds a little, which one may like .. or not, or, the specs are already far beyond what the ear can really tell as different/improved like ultra low distortion figures and crosstalk for improved imaging.

Anyway, I have a magni 2 these days, which I find excellent. It is does what a good amp should do, amplify, nothing more nothing less.

Having had a few others over the years to try out and returned. I use it as a replacement for my audio interface out at the moment, since the headphone out on my audio interface is a bit poor, not in a sense that it can't go loud enough, but it is just not clean enough and has some distortion issues with some headphones I do have, damping issues, sloppier bass, issues where clearly I can tell the difference.

Perhaps the MP7 might also suffer from that, I suspect, hence the Kawai recommendation. It is not just always a question can it go loud enough, but does it drive cleanly and consistently over the frequency range. Let the ears be the guide, not the specs, I always say to myself.

There are some expensive option out there I have heard, returned etc , and still they have some issues like they claim ultra fidelity sound, then you plug a low impedance headphone into them and you hear the noise floor and hiss even in low gain, not to mind high gain, which naturally they will never tell you in the specs, the magni, no problemo in that case.

I know that something like the magni 2 will serve me well for as long as it lasts with any can I can throw at it without issue.
It does what a headphone amp should do, nothing fancy without colouration, it works well in low and high gain with all phones from low to high impedance I have without complication and get a clean output, and the phones sound as they were designed to sound, as if there is nothing interfering in the sound chain at all.

Now, If you can tell the difference, or more importantly claim a higher fidelity sound with a 1000 pound amp versus a cheaper one that both plainly amplify in a blind test, but nothing fancy, like add 3d, or bass boost, or widen the soundstage, or warm thing up a bit,
like these, which admittedly can be fun

http://ifi-audio.com/


which some may prefer, by all means go ahead, that doesn't necessarily mean it is better, but it is different (IMHO of course)

OTOH the other hand, if you do want a bit of colouration, warmth or other things, add a bit of distortion, like the effect of tubes because that is your intention, there are many options out there too, pay as much as you want, if that's your cuppa.

Last edited by Alexander Borro; 01/11/17 01:50 PM.

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Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
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Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
Andrew_G #2603271 01/11/17 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AndrewGleibman
I have some experience with Sennheiser HD650 connected to my MP7. There is not any need to amplify, and the quality of sound is superb. I can hear and discern many simultaneous sounds and nuances. For example, if I play and hold some MP (mezzo piano) bass accord and then play and hold b1 note, in 3-4 seconds I hear typical string decay overtones of the b1 note. The overtones are pulsating as if this is from a real string. No other headphones, which I have, allow me to hear this. Then, vibration of a damper pedal provides additional nuances, which are clearly discernible with HD650.

I recommend to increase MP7 damper resonance setting and add some reverb to non-pedaled notes. (Not sure this is related to the headphones quality).



Well, there you have it. That's all I would need to hear. smile thumb

Originally Posted by CyberGene
I spent quite some time last week researching for a good headphone amp for HD-650 which I am/was planning to buy and two that came out as pretty good are:
Violectric HPA V90 - €450
Beyerdynamic A20 - €398

or Violectric's budget brand analog:
Lake People G103-S - €229

Lake People is the budget brand of the Violectric.

.


All excellent , Pro quality level stuff…although not as familiar with the Beyer. Sennhesier makes an amp (with the DAC) too that is high rated and expensive.

Last edited by Dave Ferris; 01/11/17 01:50 PM.

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Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
TonyDIGITAL #2603272 01/11/17 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyDIGITAL
Have you tried the HD700? Is has a lower impedance compared to HD600 / HD650 and has a much wider sound stage IMHO


Thanks, I'll check the HD700 out. I'm pretty new to high spec headphones... What exactly does "wider sound stage" mean; also, in your opinion, what are the other pros & cons of the HD700 compared to the HD600 / HD650?


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
Dave Ferris #2603273 01/11/17 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
Originally Posted by AndrewGleibman
I have some experience with Sennheiser HD650 connected to my MP7. There is not any need to amplify, and the quality of sound is superb. I can hear and discern many simultaneous sounds and nuances. For example, if I play and hold some MP (mezzo piano) bass accord and then play and hold b1 note, in 3-4 seconds I hear typical string decay overtones of the b1 note. The overtones are pulsating as if this is from a real string. No other headphones, which I have, allow me to hear this. Then, vibration of a damper pedal provides additional nuances, which are clearly discernible with HD650.

I recommend to increase MP7 damper resonance setting and add some reverb to non-pedaled notes. (Not sure this is related to the headphones quality).



Well, there you have it. That's all I would need to hear. smile thumb

Originally Posted by CyberGene
I spent quite some time last week researching for a good headphone amp for HD-650 which I am/was planning to buy and two that came out as pretty good are:
Violectric HPA V90 - €450
Beyerdynamic A20 - €398

or Violectric's budget brand analog:
Lake People G103-S - €229

Lake People is the budget brand of the Violectric.

.


All excellent , Pro quality level stuff…although not as familiar with the Beyer. Sennhesier makes an amp (with the DAC) too that is high rated and expensive.


This is good to know, as the good amps aren't cheap


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
Dave Ferris #2603275 01/11/17 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
Originally Posted by AndrewGleibman
I have some experience with Sennheiser HD650 connected to my MP7. There is not any need to amplify, and the quality of sound is superb. I can hear and discern many simultaneous sounds and nuances. For example, if I play and hold some MP (mezzo piano) bass accord and then play and hold b1 note, in 3-4 seconds I hear typical string decay overtones of the b1 note. The overtones are pulsating as if this is from a real string. No other headphones, which I have, allow me to hear this. Then, vibration of a damper pedal provides additional nuances, which are clearly discernible with HD650.

I recommend to increase MP7 damper resonance setting and add some reverb to non-pedaled notes. (Not sure this is related to the headphones quality).



Well, there you have it. That's all I would need to hear. smile thumb

Originally Posted by CyberGene
I spent quite some time last week researching for a good headphone amp for HD-650 which I am/was planning to buy and two that came out as pretty good are:
Violectric HPA V90 - €450
Beyerdynamic A20 - €398

or Violectric's budget brand analog:
Lake People G103-S - €229

Lake People is the budget brand of the Violectric.

.


All excellent , Pro quality level stuff…although not as familiar with the Beyer. Sennhesier makes an amp (with the DAC) too that is high rated and expensive.


I see they have two (HDVD 800 and HDVD 600) both of which are over £1000...ouch.

What is DAC?

Oh, I see... DAC

Last edited by Doug M.; 01/11/17 02:00 PM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
Doug M. #2603341 01/11/17 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by TonyDIGITAL
Have you tried the HD700? Is has a lower impedance compared to HD600 / HD650 and has a much wider sound stage IMHO


Thanks, I'll check the HD700 out. I'm pretty new to high spec headphones... What exactly does "wider sound stage" mean; also, in your opinion, what are the other pros & cons of the HD700 compared to the HD600 / HD650?


Wider Sound Stage means that the sound through the HD700 is like you sit in front of the piano with roomy sound while with the HD600 I felt like my head is inside the piano.

I was quite content with the HD600 and wanted to keep it for using with my VST but then I've started to "optimize" my music listening experience with tubes amp (Schiit Vahalla 2 / Modi 2 Multibit DAC) and landed on the HD700 instead. When I got back to plug the HD700 into the Tascam I was like "my goodness..."


[Kawai VPC1/ES100 - VSTs: Garritan CFX, Pianoteq 6 Standard & UVI - Ableton Live - Presonus iOne/iTwo - Sennheiser HD700/6xx - Presonus E5+T10, iloud micro monitors]
Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
Doug M. #2603733 01/12/17 05:16 PM
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in the same topic, I'm considering to buy the hd 700, but some negative reviews led me to the 650.

now i'm debating between the 650 and the 700.

would you recommend the 700? (money is not an issue)

Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
euphoria #2603736 01/12/17 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by euphoria
in the same topic, I'm considering to buy the hd 700, but some negative reviews led me to the 650.

now i'm debating between the 650 and the 700.

would you recommend the 700? (money is not an issue)


Like the actual touch of the piano keys you might want to actual connect the HD700 / HD650 to your DP / DAC&amp to judge them with your DP / VST / types of music in order to make a choice.

I'm using Pianoteq / UVI Ravenscroft and listening to Jazz / New Age which lead right to the HD700.


[Kawai VPC1/ES100 - VSTs: Garritan CFX, Pianoteq 6 Standard & UVI - Ableton Live - Presonus iOne/iTwo - Sennheiser HD700/6xx - Presonus E5+T10, iloud micro monitors]
Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
Doug M. #2604100 01/13/17 02:49 PM
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Not discounting Tony's experience above (as I haven't personally heard the HD700), but in general the HD700 is a very divisive headphone (although a lot of that was due to the initial launch price).

Personally I am a huge fan of the 600 and 650, and if you find the 650 comfortable (I do, but I know some don't due to clamp) then it is still one of the best headphones you can get.

Haven't tried them with an MP7, but they work great with my MP10.


Playing since April 2010.
Kawai MP10
Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
Doug M. #2604126 01/13/17 03:48 PM
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much to my regret, I cant test them before I buy,
both the 650 and the 700 good models,

for piano playing experience, i think the soundstage is advantage hence i tend to go for the 700,
however, my question - are the 700 playable for long time (few hours)? (without headache or any other symptoms) ?
because if they are too bright for instance, this sometimes more accurate for professional audio but less playable for long time. (i hope you get my point)

Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
Deffie #2604144 01/13/17 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Deffie
Not discounting Tony's experience above (as I haven't personally heard the HD700),but in general the HD700 is a very divisive headphone (although a lot of that was due to the initial launch price).

Personally I am a huge fan of the 600 and 650, and if you find the 650 comfortable (I do, but I know some don't due to clamp) then it is still one of the best headphones you can get..


It was brought out as a lower price point alternative to the HD800. I haven't read any reviews (aside from here) how it fares on a DP but in general, quite a large percentage of serious HI FI headphone people don't care for it listening to music.

Even a few people here have posted how the 800, while being incredibly clear and detailed, isn't the most warm and flattering headphone to listen and practice with for longer periods of time.

Supposedly Sennheiser has addressed this "too sterile" sounding issue with the release of the HD800s. That's serious bucks though. Personally like Deffie said and quite a few others have commented- I can't see anyone being disappointed with the sound of the HD650s on any DP. wink


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5
Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
Doug M. #2604389 01/14/17 03:47 PM
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anybody can thumbs up for hd 700?

Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
Doug M. #2604638 01/15/17 11:43 AM
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For me the HD700 is definitively a thumbs up. I didn't compared it to the HD650 but to the HD600 only. With a price difference of only $40 over the HD650 it's a clear keeper for me.


[Kawai VPC1/ES100 - VSTs: Garritan CFX, Pianoteq 6 Standard & UVI - Ableton Live - Presonus iOne/iTwo - Sennheiser HD700/6xx - Presonus E5+T10, iloud micro monitors]
Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
Doug M. #2604646 01/15/17 12:15 PM
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First thing the original post was 600 vs 650 on a MP7 and impedance issues. I have a MP7 and the HD 650 headphones. It worked fine for me without a preamp. Although I did buy the following pre amp and have had excellent results.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01I19SBAW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It was $50 and sound great. Also the HD 650 does not tire my ears or get uncomfortable over a long session.

Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
Doug M. #2604897 01/16/17 07:41 AM
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I'm considering to buy the schiit jotunheim as dac/audio interface.

is there any benefit for playing piano with this dac over simple focusrite scarlett 2i2 / komplete audio 6?
how about latency?

if someone know, please let me know.


thanks

Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
euphoria #2604901 01/16/17 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by euphoria
anybody can thumbs up for hd 700?


As I live in Manchester, UK, I'm thinking of finding a vendor and testing the HD600/650/700 & 800. I may even take my MP7 also. Will need to ring the vendors I've found online, to see if they are in stock.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
TonyDIGITAL #2604907 01/16/17 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by TonyDIGITAL
For me the HD700 is definitively a thumbs up. I didn't compared it to the HD650 but to the HD600 only. With a price difference of only $40 over the HD650 it's a clear keeper for me.


Only $40 difference?

In the Netherlands, prices are:

HD599: €249
HD600: €279
HD650: €309
HD700: €599 (price in Germany is around €450...)

So IMHO, de HD598/599, 600, and 650 are all in the same price bracket, and so choosing one is a matter of taste, while the 700 is in another league; at least in the Netherlands.

Last edited by Falsch; 01/16/17 08:26 AM.

Roland LX-17 PE == At GF's condo: Kawai MP7 == Currently in storage: Focal Alpha 80, Pianoteq with Kremsegg I, II and Ruckers II addons.
Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
Doug M. #2604919 01/16/17 09:17 AM
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I have the Hd650, very happy with it, don't use an amp, my apogee duet does fine, so does do mp11.

Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
euphoria #2604934 01/16/17 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by euphoria
I'm considering to buy the schiit jotunheim as dac/audio interface.

is there any benefit for playing piano with this dac over simple focusrite scarlett 2i2 / komplete audio 6?
how about latency?

if someone know, please let me know.


thanks


If you're talking about directly hooking it up to your piano, then you'd only be able to use the amp portion (I'm not aware of any DP that outputs a digital signal over USB that you'd be able to use with the Jotunheim).

If you're going to use it with a PC and Pianoteq or similar then both the DAC and amp in the Jot should be a sound quality improvement over a simple audio interface (I got to demo the Jot for a week as an amp only and thought it sounded very good).

As far as latency it's going to be basically the same as the audio interface; you'll need to use ASIO (likely ASIO4All) and your latency will be dependent on your PC / buffer size.

Last edited by Deffie; 01/16/17 03:18 PM. Reason: forgot the quote

Playing since April 2010.
Kawai MP10
Re: MP7 headphone choice: Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650
Doug M. #2605017 01/16/17 03:41 PM
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great, yes i'm going to use it with pc with some vsts, (mostly ravenscroft by vi labs)

i saw that the jotunheim has pre-out xlr outputs, can these be connected to active monitors?

thanks

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