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Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: Piano Math] #2602544
01/09/17 04:30 PM
01/09/17 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Piano Math
I have a 5 foot 4 inch baby grand (Hailun 161) in a 13 by 17 foot room with a 9 foot ceiling. The room has one standard bedroom door for an entrance (that opens into a hallway). I am very pleased with the resulting volume and tone. There is a bookcase and computer desk (and chair) in the room as well (and carpeted floor). I can play with the Lid full open, partially open, or closed with no problems. It has become a great practice room for me wile others are in the living room watching T.V, etc.
Your room is 83% larger than an 11x11 room.

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Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: pianoloverus] #2602565
01/09/17 05:08 PM
01/09/17 05:08 PM
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You keep changing the original question, and ignoring relevant responses you do not like. The plain and simple fact is that a better piano will sound better, no matter what size the room, and larger pianos are usually better.


Semipro Tech
Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: Almaviva] #2602584
01/09/17 05:56 PM
01/09/17 05:56 PM
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A seven footer should fit nicely. Just make sure you treat the room. Acoustic foam and high quality bass traps are now cheap, cheap, cheap! thanks to eBay.


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: Almaviva] #2602589
01/09/17 06:06 PM
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Why would anyone want a bass trap in their piano room? It is not a good idea to have a fishing stream in the same room as a piano!


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Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: Almaviva] #2602619
01/09/17 07:22 PM
01/09/17 07:22 PM
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Much cheaper option : ear plugs.

Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: Bosendorff] #2602621
01/09/17 07:26 PM
01/09/17 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Bosendorff
Much cheaper option : ear plugs.


The problem I've had with them is that their frequency curve is far from flat. The result is an extremely tubby sound.



-- J.S.

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Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: JohnSprung] #2602622
01/09/17 07:28 PM
01/09/17 07:28 PM
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Ear plugs do not change the size of the piano.


Semipro Tech
Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: Almaviva] #2602628
01/09/17 08:01 PM
01/09/17 08:01 PM
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You can put a larger piano in a small room but you have to be willing to do some work to adjust the sound to the room. Voicing will help but just to a point. You may have to add carpets, or soft furnishings to diffuse or absorb some of the sound.

You really can't control a really large sound (soundboard, bridges, rim) from the hammer alone. If you try to voice it down too much you will kill the tone. If the soundboard is very live no amount of hammer voicing will avoid some pretty intense forte sound. However, the better the regulation, the more control the player has over the dynamics.

Remember, piano studios and practice rooms in universities have large pianos in those pretty small rooms all the time.



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Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: Almaviva] #2602695
01/09/17 11:35 PM
01/09/17 11:35 PM
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Personally I am happy with how my baby grand has the same dynamic range as before but everything transposed down the volume scale. The hammer felt was not touched but their mass reduced and with the new regulation touch is more precise, piano is better adapted to the room and sustain is longer.

Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: BDB] #2603029
01/10/17 08:59 PM
01/10/17 08:59 PM
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Richmond, Virginia
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Originally Posted by BDB
Originally Posted by Almaviva
Originally Posted by BDB
Probably 9 feet, fitted in diagonally.


Yes, but wouldn't a concert grand blow the windows out of a room that small?

Please remember that an 18' x 14' living room is practically on the other side of the doorway of this 11' x 11" music room.


Were you planning on packing it with explosives?


You know very well that I was concerned that a grand piano would be too loud for this small room, especially a 9' concert grand.

I repeat the question - what is the largest size grand piano that would fit in this room AND STILL SOUND DECENT? (Please remember that I will have to fit in this room, so allow 3' in length for me.)

Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: Almaviva] #2603039
01/10/17 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Almaviva
[I repeat the question - what is the largest size grand piano that would fit in this room AND STILL SOUND DECENT?


Seriously, I'd think 7'-6" would be about the biggest you could reasonably go, with the room and piano both treated for the purpose. Certainly there's no reason to go smaller than 6'.

You'll have to do some acoustic treatment in the room and voice the piano for it no matter what.




-- J.S.

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Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: Almaviva] #2603048
01/10/17 10:22 PM
01/10/17 10:22 PM
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Because of the size of the room and especially since it is completely enclosed except for a door, I think even the smallest piano(grand or vertical)will have serious problems.

Some people have mentioned university practice rooms to justify pianos in very small rooms, but they almost universally seem to say this acoustic arrangement is poor. There is a limit to how slowly a key can be depressed before it will not produce any sound, so I am not convinced by those who say that with correct technique one can always play softly enough on a well regulated piano.

In my first post in this thread, I said my thoughts were not based on actual experience so that I could be wrong. So I asked if anyone actually has had a positive experience with a grand in a completely enclosed room around 11x11. I don't think there have been any examples so far. And why did Dell Fandrich design a piano specifically for home use if he didn't think many pianos were too loud for their space?

BTW I have a 7' Mason BB in a 12x18x8 living room that opens into a 7x18 kitchen on one end and a long hallway/foyer at the other end. Both openings are around 7' wide. I play with the lid down and lid hinge folded back.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 01/10/17 10:35 PM.
Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: Almaviva] #2603054
01/10/17 10:44 PM
01/10/17 10:44 PM
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Portland, OR
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The alcove my piano is in is a similar size (I think it's 10x12), but it only has three walls and opens into a larger room, so it's not as confined of a space. I always felt like the M&H easily overpowered the space (though it was also very difficult to play softer than mf on that piano), but the C2X seems ideally suited for the space. I could get something larger in that alcove, but I don't know that I would want to. I think certainly I would keep it under 7'.


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Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: Cassia] #2603056
01/10/17 10:59 PM
01/10/17 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Cassia
The alcove my piano is in is a similar size (I think it's 10x12), but it only has three walls and opens into a larger room, so it's not as confined of a space.
The effective space your piano is in is the 10x12 room plus the size of the larger room. More than twice the size of the room the OP is considering.

Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: Almaviva] #2603062
01/10/17 11:37 PM
01/10/17 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Almaviva
Originally Posted by BDB
Originally Posted by Almaviva
Originally Posted by BDB
Probably 9 feet, fitted in diagonally.


Yes, but wouldn't a concert grand blow the windows out of a room that small?

Please remember that an 18' x 14' living room is practically on the other side of the doorway of this 11' x 11" music room.


Were you planning on packing it with explosives?


You know very well that I was concerned that a grand piano would be too loud for this small room, especially a 9' concert grand.

I repeat the question - what is the largest size grand piano that would fit in this room AND STILL SOUND DECENT? (Please remember that I will have to fit in this room, so allow 3' in length for me.)


There are just too many variables for anyone to give you a definite answer. I was very concerned about this when buying a grand. There was no way to know beforehand and I needed to make the decision between 170cm and 150cm. It helped the decision that smaller was a lot let expensive. It turned out good, the piano fits well in the room and is very pleasant to play. But I had no way of knowing beforehand... And I still don't know whether the larger one would have been good as well.

Btw. My Yamaha U1 is much less pleasant in sound. It is in a smaller room, but with a lot of acoustic treatment and it sounds awful. The grand has a much more pleasant basic tone. When I tried to treat the upright to make it less loud it sounded stuffy. But when I cover the grand it just sounds a little less loud but still sings...

Last edited by outo; 01/10/17 11:45 PM.
Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: outo] #2603068
01/10/17 11:57 PM
01/10/17 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by outo


There are just too many variables for anyone to give you a definite answer.


This is a good point. Are you working with a dealer who would let you try out a piano in your space before you buy? That may be the way to go.


Yamaha C2X
Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: Almaviva] #2603075
01/11/17 12:55 AM
01/11/17 12:55 AM
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your experience with a vintage M&H A is very different from how easily our 1919 BB plays softly. perhaps the divergence came from how they were restored.

Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: huaidongxi] #2603078
01/11/17 01:04 AM
01/11/17 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by huaidongxi
your experience with a vintage M&H A is very different from how easily our 1919 BB plays softly. perhaps the divergence came from how they were restored.


Mine was mostly original. The action was very worn, hence the difficulties with control.


Yamaha C2X
Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: Almaviva] #2603094
01/11/17 02:27 AM
01/11/17 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Almaviva
Originally Posted by BDB
Originally Posted by Almaviva
Originally Posted by BDB
Probably 9 feet, fitted in diagonally.


Yes, but wouldn't a concert grand blow the windows out of a room that small?

Please remember that an 18' x 14' living room is practically on the other side of the doorway of this 11' x 11" music room.


Were you planning on packing it with explosives?


You know very well that I was concerned that a grand piano would be too loud for this small room, especially a 9' concert grand.

I repeat the question - what is the largest size grand piano that would fit in this room AND STILL SOUND DECENT? (Please remember that I will have to fit in this room, so allow 3' in length for me.)


A good 9 foot piano will sound decent in any room it will fit in. The reason nobody asks the logical opposite question is because just about everyone recognizes that a spinet will not sound as decent as a 9 foot grand no matter how small the room is, as long as the pianos fit in.

I can play my pianos so they are uncomfortably loud in the room that they are in. The important thing is that I do not have to. That would be less likely to be true if they were smaller.


Semipro Tech
Re: Maximum size of grand piano to be used in 11 x 11 room [Re: Almaviva] #2603124
01/11/17 03:51 AM
01/11/17 03:51 AM
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Is the room purely a piano room? If it is going to be used for any other purpose one should consider the appearance of the piano in proportion to the room.


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