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Talk me into it. Or out of it. #2601072 01/04/17 03:47 PM
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Jolly Offline OP
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I'm currently doing a piano search for a church. Typical story...Small congregation, limited funds, unheated or cooled except for the day of services.

I suggested digital. I was told no, they want an acoustic. Period.

I've honed in on two pianos...

1. Kawai UST-9
2. Kawai K-200

I've seen the UST "in person", am waiting on a 200 to come in. I'm looking hard at Kawai because of the carbon fiber in the action - less humidity problems. It's also a "known" name, so it's easier to pitch.

Question, what are the differences between the two pianos and which one would you rather have, considering the situation?

And...is there another piano, from another maker, I should be considering?


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Re: Talk me into it. Or out of it. [Re: Jolly] #2601075 01/04/17 04:00 PM
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guyl Offline
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Originally Posted by Jolly
unheated or cooled except for the day of services.


Sure makes a better case for a digital.


What do snowflakes and Chickerings have in common? There are no two exactly alike!
Re: Talk me into it. Or out of it. [Re: Jolly] #2601085 01/04/17 05:22 PM
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Because churches are non-competitive, perhaps talk to others nearby to see what they have and how their pianos are holding up.



-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Talk me into it. Or out of it. [Re: Jolly] #2601102 01/04/17 06:37 PM
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gnuboi Offline
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Anyway you can find the previous-generation digital hybrid CS-10 at a discount? Looks just like a K2 but with digital innards. You would have to run a power cord to it, though.

Last edited by gnuboi; 01/04/17 06:38 PM.
Re: Talk me into it. Or out of it. [Re: Jolly] #2601104 01/04/17 06:46 PM
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Lakeviewsteve Offline
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How about talking with a good piano technician that has experience doing church pianos in your area? My technician in Milwaukee does those. In Louisiana you probably have too much humidity. Can't they at least store the piano in a room with a dehumidifier? The janitor could look after the humidifier and the piano could be moved to whatever area of the church they are going to use it when needed. It is sacrilegious to not do anything about taking care of it! If that church pastor and their congregation can't take care of a piano they have NO business getting one in my humble opinion.

Steve
Bösendorfer 170


Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 01/04/17 06:56 PM.

Bösendorfer 170
Re: Talk me into it. Or out of it. [Re: guyl] #2601113 01/04/17 07:06 PM
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Jolly Offline OP
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Originally Posted by guyl
Originally Posted by Jolly
unheated or cooled except for the day of services.


Sure makes a better case for a digital.


Brother, I've already fought and died on that hill. Acoustic it shall be.

Hallelujah!


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Re: Talk me into it. Or out of it. [Re: Jolly] #2601115 01/04/17 07:07 PM
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Ed A. Hall Offline
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I service pianos at a school district that has replaced a bunch of Baldwin 243's with Kawai UST-7's and UST-9's. The Kawai's are very decent pianos and have been holding up pretty well. Tuning wise, they seem to be more sensitive to changes in humidity compared to the Baldwin but their composite actions are nicer IMO. During the summer, the district turns off the AC and it gets very hot and humid. They then get tuned after the summer break.

For your church piano, I would highly recommend installing a Dampp Chaser with a 50 watt rod and humidistat as well as an undercover to cover the back of the piano. Also, see if they would be willing to keep the thermostat at 60 degrees during the winter and 82-85 degrees during the summer to take some of the shock off. Some churches I tune for do this and their pianos are very stable and only tuned once per year.

Re: Talk me into it. Or out of it. [Re: Ed A. Hall] #2601138 01/04/17 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed A. Hall
I service pianos at a school district that has replaced a bunch of Baldwin 243's with Kawai UST-7's and UST-9's. The Kawai's are very decent pianos and have been holding up pretty well. Tuning wise, they seem to be more sensitive to changes in humidity compared to the Baldwin but their composite actions are nicer IMO. During the summer, the district turns off the AC and it gets very hot and humid. They then get tuned after the summer break.

For your church piano, I would highly recommend installing a Dampp Chaser with a 50 watt rod and humidistat as well as an undercover to cover the back of the piano. Also, see if they would be willing to keep the thermostat at 60 degrees during the winter and 82-85 degrees during the summer to take some of the shock off. Some churches I tune for do this and their pianos are very stable and only tuned once per year.


I don't know if these guys would keep up with what needs to be done with a damp-chaser or not.Their current old piano (a Baldwin 243) doesn't have one. Currently, they tune 2-3 times a year.

I know that talking to them about the thermostat is going to be a no-go. On the bright side, you don't have low humidity here and winters are usually mild (unusually so, this year).

Better to have a Damp-Chaser that gets taken care of some of the time, or no Damp-Chaser at all?


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Re: Talk me into it. Or out of it. [Re: Jolly] #2601141 01/04/17 09:55 PM
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Ed A. Hall Offline
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Originally Posted by Jolly


I don't know if these guys would keep up with what needs to be done with a damp-chaser or not.Their current old piano (a Baldwin 243) doesn't have one. Currently, they tune 2-3 times a year.

I know that talking to them about the thermostat is going to be a no-go. On the bright side, you don't have low humidity here and winters are usually mild (unusually so, this year).

Better to have a Damp-Chaser that gets taken care of some of the time, or no Damp-Chaser at all?


All that would be required to take care of the Dampp Chaser (humidistat and 50 watt rod) is to keep it plugged in. Since your area doesn't experience long periods of low humidity​, the humidifier part of the Dampp Chaser would not be required.

Hey, at least the church is having their piano tuned 2-3 times per year. That's actually rare at least in my area.

What's wrong with the Baldwin 243 and why don't they fix it?


Re: Talk me into it. Or out of it. [Re: Jolly] #2601160 01/04/17 11:17 PM
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The UST-9 is a much more strongly built piano than the K-200, plus is taller giving longer bass strings and a fuller tone. It's clearly the better choice if it can be budgeted for. Plus the large casters and stronger back design make it much more forgiving when moved around.


Don Mannino, MPA
Kawai America
Re: Talk me into it. Or out of it. [Re: KawaiDon] #2601460 01/05/17 08:57 PM
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Jolly Offline OP
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Originally Posted by KawaiDon
The UST-9 is a much more strongly built piano than the K-200, plus is taller giving longer bass strings and a fuller tone. It's clearly the better choice if it can be budgeted for. Plus the large casters and stronger back design make it much more forgiving when moved around.


Thanks, Don. I appreciate it.

Interesting story about the Kawai dealer we were working with...he had and example of every vertical in the store before Christmas, up to and including the K-500. Normally, at Christmas, he sells more grands. This year, he sold every vertical he had, with the exception of one K-400.

You just never know...


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Re: Talk me into it. Or out of it. [Re: KawaiDon] #2601576 01/06/17 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by KawaiDon
The UST-9 is a much more strongly built piano than the K-200, plus is taller giving longer bass strings and a fuller tone. It's clearly the better choice if it can be budgeted for. Plus the large casters and stronger back design make it much more forgiving when moved around.


I couldn't agree more.


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My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Talk me into it. Or out of it. [Re: Ed A. Hall] #2601638 01/06/17 01:02 PM
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gnuboi Offline
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Originally Posted by Ed A. Hall
What's wrong with the Baldwin 243 and why don't they fix it?


How old is it anyway? 150 years? wink So, why not just service the good ol' 243?

Last edited by gnuboi; 01/06/17 01:03 PM.
Re: Talk me into it. Or out of it. [Re: gnuboi] #2601829 01/06/17 10:39 PM
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Jolly Offline OP
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Originally Posted by gnuboi
Originally Posted by Ed A. Hall
What's wrong with the Baldwin 243 and why don't they fix it?


How old is it anyway? 150 years? wink So, why not just service the good ol' 243?


By most accounts, around 40 years old. That old piano is so whupped, the best thing you could do for it, is to raise the lid and run a new piano up under the old lid.

It's dead, Jim.


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