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Here is yet another update with more bugs fixed. I recommend this version over all the previous versions. There were some issues with microphone calibration and smoothness of the indicators. - Now mic calibration is done on the fly. - The indicators are more stable. I hope I won't post any updates for a while. At least until I discover (or reported) a serious bug. Happy tunings ! https://app.box.com/s/8m0xa6djvv0hzd8k21bvngtkbidhbbya
Last edited by Hakki; 12/24/16 11:27 AM.
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Please download again if you have downloaded the file. I have just made a little correction to mic calibration and updated the file. No version change.
Happy Holidays!
edit: In any case, if you see that A4 inharmonicity value is not zero on program launch, just reset it to zero by pressing "I" button.
Last edited by Hakki; 12/25/16 02:05 AM.
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I can't run it because I get a pop up screen that says it is from an unauthorised developer. I could run V16 ok before however.
Edit: I had upgraded my MacBook and operating system so that I could try this out.
Last edited by Chris Leslie; 12/25/16 02:40 AM.
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Chris thank you for your interest.
I just reverted it back to original version 2.2. Because the correction I did for mic calibration did not work. So please download it once again. sorry for the confusion.
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
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In order to run something on a Mac from an unidentified developer, control-click on it and in the pop-up menu, choose Open. You will only have to do this once.
Semipro Tech
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In order to run something on a Mac from an unidentified developer, control-click on it and in the pop-up menu, choose Open. You will only have to do this once. Thank you BDB. It works now.
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I have just used this application to tune a whole piano and will provide some comments and suggestions. The piano I used was my old Weber upright which had not been tuned for about 2 years. I might also point out that it has been about three years since I tuned a piano with a device, an Accu-tuner, and I do not have much experience with other tuning devices with which to compare this application:
Firstly, congratulations to Hakki for writing an excellent application. I do appreciate the amount of effort and dedication that has gone into this as well as the frustrations and tribulations.
This piano tuning application appears to work by somewhat following the path that an aural tuner would follow. With this method, the inharmonicity of the piano is gradually built up as the tuning progresses, including as we progress through the temperament. Therefore, I guess that the next note being tuned has a frequency decided from the partial data from the previous notes tuned. This is the way it basically happens when we tune aurally. There is an initial seeding of the starting octave however from a selection for a piano type at the start. I am not sure why this information could not also be derived from initial iH data.
The sensitivity and ease of reading of the display was good. The graphic has is a rotating pattern that goes clockwise or anticlockwise for sharp or flat of the target frequency. There is also a small red pattern that averages every 10 successive readings and thus smooths out the movement somewhat. The target frequency, actual frequency, iH and cent data is also displayed as text. When the string is close enough to the target pitch and stable then the colour of the note changes to red and the IH is recorded. At that stage the unisons or the next note can be tuned.
The tuning can be saved or loaded to disk file. However, it is the iH only that appears to be saved. Therefore, when reloading the file for another tuning the target pitches will be regenerated when the file is loaded.
I notice that if the pitch is greater than 30 cents from the target then the graphic display ceases to change. This is a little inconvenient although the text data is able to tell you if you are too sharp of flat and by how much. Perhaps it would be good if the graphic display could also indicate if the note is too far sharp or flat.
There is an auto pitch option that switches to the correct pitch with a step of up to an octave. I did however find this function to be rather erratic and would often go wild. I could not use it successfully when tuning, but it was useful when doing a simple final chromatic check of all the notes. I know however how tricky auto switching is for the programmer.
The very upper notes were easy to tune. The display was a lot more stable than I remember the Accu-tuner was.
The graphic display is a little spartan, but at this stage the functionality is the focus.
I have made a video of the temperament area playing chromatic M3rds, 4ths, 5th, M6th and octaves. I will post this when I get it organised.
Last edited by Chris Leslie; 12/26/16 09:18 PM.
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Chris thank you very much for the in depth review and the video. Would you mind posting the ih data F3 through A4. I would like to analyze the results.
Also I would like to thank you for inspiring me to learn java. It was your tuning simulation program that led me to seek for the possibility of using Java for a tuning application.
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0 0 0 0 0 2.7310435504276014E-4 2.6446059039207035E-4 2.791609125809155E-4 2.7255740982718904E-4 2.631026197275978E-4 2.8153581578478236E-4 3.6253502923618214E-4 3.2510111251580034E-4 3.502470119615416E-4 4.097207723810593E-4 4.2569596924937295E-4 4.679084871046953E-4 5.236179759505643E-4 5.919003392363494E-4 6.52489061995863E-4 7.298444043925395E-4 7.617926504430315E-4 0 0 0 0 Edit: I only saved F3 to A4 and forgot to save the rest of the piano.
Last edited by Chris Leslie; 12/27/16 01:32 AM.
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The M3/M6 are pretty good, I get these numbers: M3 FA 7.6 F#A# 7.8 GB 7.8 G#C 8.3 AC# 8.3 A#D 8.4 BD# 9.8 CE 10.9 C#F 11.7 DF# 12.7 D#G 14.0 EG# 13.1 FA 14.8 M6 FD 8.5 F#D# 8.3 GE 9.5 G#F 9.9 AF# 10.6 A#G 10.9 BG# 11.9 CA 13.2 The P4 P5 and octaves are very bad though, even I can hear it. Kees
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The temperament sounds fine to me, all things considering. All things considering includes ih of the piano, hammer string mating & string levelling, each and every string within the temperament range (whether or not it has false strings) etc... will determine what the piano sounds like in the end.
Then, one has to ask, how fast or slow can/must a 4th and 5th sound in the temperament for ET (not speaking of octave stretch)?
The temperament sounds like the ETD has taken ih into account, with the 5ths maybe a slight bit narrower in the lower part and more just higher up, and the 4ths increasing in width/beat speed gradually from the lower part of the temp to the top. Overall it sounds as if the program has done a good job. There may be a slight bit of drift that has taken place. Just for sanity sake, drift does happen and that for a number of reasons, but at the end of the day stability TRUMPS pedantic accuracy.
The difficulty when speaking about piano tuning is that one needs to be able to separate between the "concert venue tuning" scenario and the everyday average "troubled" piano scenario. I have learnt a lot from some here on PW, but all along the way I have had to remind myself that there are the "Pristine white marbled floor palaces" that need just a light mopping (a piano that is in excellent condition and only needs a fine tuning) and a old shabby shack that needs outside and inside renovation (an every day fairly well worn piano that needs more than just a tuning and which the customer is not interested in having anything else done). With the former, it is straight forward (usually) and the end result is satisfying, with the latter, it is a realisation that this is the best it is going to sound in it's present condition and at that moment in time, apart from a complete rebuild and restringing etc...).
What I am trying to say is that some pianos no matter how well they are tuned are just not going to sound like one would like, never mind like a grand piano that is in a concert hall and that is meticulously kept in tune and in good regulation etc...
I think that F3 does sound a bit more whiny but that may be a flaw that is inherent in the unisons string/s or that area of the piano.
Mark Piano tuner technician
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Thank you, DoelKees for posting the beat rates and Mark Davis for your detailed comments.
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Chris, I have analyzed the results. Your temperament already sounds very good.
And I think you might have got good results with the third stretch option III as well. It utilizes a pure 4:2 octave for the temperament, which would result in slightly faster 5ths, if the 6:3 beats are not objectionable for the octaves.
BTW, anybody else tried the program ?
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Hakki,
I would have tried it but initially when you posted I could not view the video as I do not like to use use Adobe Flash. Later I saw that your program uses java and I have disabled java runtime.
Its not that I am concerned about HB tuner but I admit to heeding the growing warnings about security.
Ian
I'm all keyed up 2016 Blüthner Model A
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Hakki, On my website, i have a page dedicated to publishing links to piano tuning software that base their calculations on measured partials. Do I have your permission to link to your software download? If not, it's OK. I understand if you are concerned it might cause bandwidth or other problems. http://morethanpianos.com/electronic-tuning-devices-and-software-list/I would have PM'ed you. But, you have PM disabled. Thanks, -Joe
Last edited by daniokeeper; 01/04/17 04:58 AM. Reason: Correct html tag for webpage
Joe Gumbosky Piano Tuning & Repair www.morethanpianos.com (semi-retired) "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
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Joe,
The program is under development and I shared it only here exclusively for evaluation and feedback. For the moment I am sorry to say no to your request. Thank you.
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I understand.
Thanks. -Joe
Joe Gumbosky Piano Tuning & Repair www.morethanpianos.com (semi-retired) "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
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Hakki, I encourage you to accept Joe's offer and get it out there. The program is basically working and has a unique feature that sets it aside from the others, i.e. iH is collected as we progress rather than measured at the beginning. Only Stopper's program does this I think.
It is often the case that those creating something are never really satisfied no mater how far they get. But there comes a time, sooner rather than never, that our creations need the creative boost and encouragement caused by public exposure.
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Hi Chris,
The Verituner also collects IH and calculates as you work. You can pre-measure, but it is not required. Your first measurement should be A4, though.
Joe Gumbosky Piano Tuning & Repair www.morethanpianos.com (semi-retired) "The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
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