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My 8-year old has been taking piano lessons for 1.5 years now. We just have a rinky-dink keyboard that's not even 88 keys and doesn't have weighted keys. We obviously need to get something much better. At first, I was thinking we'd get an acoustic upright but now I'm seriously considering buying a really good digital, like the Roland HP-506...

Some reasons why: I really like the idea of being able to lower the volume at times. The piano will be in a common area, near the kitchen and adjacent to another living area. This is good because my kid is more apt to practice if he's around people than if the piano was off to an isolated room, but I feel like there could be times where the loudness of an acoustic could really bother me. I would never want to tell him not to play but I have a weird issue where I don't like too many loud sounds going on around me at all times. Also, the piano will be against an interior wall but opposite a west-facing window that gets a lot of afternoon sun in the summer. We could close the curtain during those times, but that room will still get at least a little warmer in the sumer afternoons and I wondered if we'd have to get an acoustic piano tuned much more regularly in those conditions?

I sort of feel like maybe I would be being an awful parent if I don't get an acoustic but I'm pretty concerned about the loudness of it all. I read this thread from a few years back: http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...te_id/1#import.

But, if we do not have an acoustic, does this mean that my kid will not be able to have proper technique? He does seem to enjoy playing but I feel that it's more for fun and I don't really envision him becoming a piano major in college, if that makes a difference, but I guess I don't want to necessarily limit him either.

There's a recurring suggestion in several threads in the "Digital Pianos" forum, and some here:

. . . DO NOT control the piano's volume by turning down the "Volume" knob, during practice.

He needs to learn to control the piano's loudness _with his fingers_, not with a knob. If he ever transitions to an acoustic piano, or ever plays a digital piano seriously, he'll thank you for the discipline.

If you don't want to hear your son practice, get him a good pair of headphones or earbuds. If they're "closed-back" phones (or earbuds), he won't hear you, and you won't hear him.

A weighted velocity sensitive 88 key digital is fine provided that it's not the only instrument he ever plays. Find him a little time on acoustic pianos in schools or churches or the homes of friends or relatives. Use that time to work on the pieces he knows best. That way he learns to adapt to different instruments, especially acoustic ones.

I particularly like the "slab" or "stage" type of digital. They're rugged and compact, you can stand it on end in a closet if you need it out of the way.

In an analogous post on the Piano Teacher Forum, this OP mentioned that his or her 8yo son is currently practicing 2.5 hours a day on his fake piano. Amazing to me.

Geez, sorry, I made a huge mistake. He seriously practices only 2.5 hours a week.

Thirty minutes a day 5X a week is fine for an eight year old. Either an acoustic upright or a good digital piano will be a big improvement for your son. The goal is to keep him playing.

Agreed. The trick is to get a good-enough instrument (weighting, tone, etc.) regardless of whether it's acoustic or digital.

I have come around to the opinion that a digital is, in some ways, preferable for the beginning student, at least for the first 1000 hours or so. But an acoustic is needed, at some point, if the student sticks with the piano.

But - it has to be a pretty good digital piano, with weighted keys and a convincing piano sound. Budget ~$1000

Advantages to the digital:

1) Can be played with headphones. This can be a pretty big plus for those errant notes that are unavoidable!
2) Volume control. This is a positive, not a negative. A student who sticks with the piano will eventually need to be able to do volume control directly.
3) Can be used as a midi instrument.
4) Can record directly.
5) Has a built-in metronome.
6) Can purchase software pianos.
7) Some digitals have built-in sounds/accompaniment which can be fun

Advantages to the acoustic:
1) More satisfying sound and ambience. This can be important enough to hold a student's interest level. Some students may quit because of a disappointing digital sound. This is the most distressing aspect of digital pianos, methinks.
2) More "authentic".
3) Better for the long run.

Disadvantages to the digital.
1) Less satisfying sound and ambience.
2) Less realistic key action. (But not always, it depends on the quality of the digital piano.)

Disadvantages to the acoustic.
1) Requires regular tuning, perhaps twice a year.
2) The action can be very poor for an older piano. To fix, the piano would need regulation.
3) In short, the acoustic requires maintenance which can be costly.

I think these are the key points.

In my view, a serious piano student eventually needs both a fine digital and a fine acoustic piano. But the problem is not knowing if the student is going to "make it" and complete his/her piano studies.

My 2 cents.

As a player myself, I would much prefer to play on a good digital than an average or below average upright piano.

A good digital is just fine for your son.
I went all the way to grade 10 conservatory studies with only a digital piano and transitioned just fine to the real thing later on (and they weren't nearly as good in the 1980's as they are now). But I DID play real pianos as often as possible (namely every week at my piano teacher's house for our lessons.
One possibly excellent option if your budget allows: Look at a hybrid piano like the Yamaha Avant grand series--REAL piano action and pretty good 'ambient' speakers, but digitally sampled sounds and volume control, and never goes out of tune. Also, with younger students, having a variety of different sounds like electric piano, organ, strings etc. can do a good job of keeping them engaged. When I was a kid I used to love playing Bach using a vibraphone or string patch:)

http://m.usa.yamaha.com/products/pianos-keyboards/hybrid-pianos/nu1/nu1.html

Anyone concerned about kids noise exposure might be surprised to take a few sound level measurements at schools. I work in schools where background music at gym time is loud enough so that the instructor cannot be heard--so he signals with a whistle.

It might be worth looking at this chart:
http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

Normal piano playing (60-70 dB) is quite a lot softer than city traffic noise inside a car (85dB). Even a fortissimo on the piano (and how long can you keep banging ff for?) is nothing like the sound at a pop/rock concert - or school discos. (Personally, I avoid those completely - the volume of the music hurts my ears). And nothing like the level at which many young people listen to their portable music via earphones when outside on the sidewalks, which is big cause of hearing loss (read WHO's advice). But if we perceive sounds as 'noise', we're less likely to tolerate it even if objectively, it's not a loud volume.

And finally, there have been very few pianists who've suffered from deafness (the kind caused by over-exposure to loud sounds) as they became old, despite practicing for over four hours a day - usually on grand pianos - most of their lives. Rubinstein, for instance, became blind but certainly not deaf in his old age, and he kept performing until he was 89.

Personally having my Roland HP605 set at 30 which keeps noise at about 70-75db

reading the Piano Designer app piano profiles made by the various well known tuners I am amazed to read 'recommended volume level 73' with the 442hz european concert setting, and then even the 'recommended volume level 90' for the 443 vienna concert one.
I have not measured the sound that comes from the HP605 at those levels but I imagine those volumes are definately not healthy for any period of time. Likely those settings are meant for public venue playing, but I would think it perhaps prudent of Roland to advise users in this matter a little more clearly.

Don't agree that moving the volume control (to make the music less loud) is a plus for the student. Maybe for everyone else, but not for the student. The student does't need to have one more thing they have to adjust to when they go for their lesson; and they need to work on volume control from the get-go, not eventually.

It depends which way you move it. If you play the same way always and use the volume control to make pp and ff, it's a negative. You don't learn anything about pp/ff.

If you move it the opposite way, crank it up to learn pp and down to learn ff, it helps. A real piano has a wider dynamic range than the digital, and tweaking the volume helps simulate that.

Yeah, but I don't think this is what the poster (AZ) is implying. The OP would like less volume, period.
This isn't unreasonable for the person who has to listen to it, but it's not in the best interests of the student.

What do you say to these propositions?

• Boston = Average
• Essex < Average

Reference

Yes, headphones would be in the best interest of both.

Thanks for the comments. We are still trying to decide. I did see a listing for a used upright Boston in our areas for a little over $4000 that has been recently tuned and maintained, but is that just an average piano and a digital would be better than that? Pianos are confusing...

Acoustic by all means! Do you have a local piano dealer you can rent from to try it out for a year or so?

Steve
Bösendorfer 170