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Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing #2599557
12/31/16 08:32 AM
12/31/16 08:32 AM
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CyberGene Online content OP
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This is a copy from my post in the "Garritan CFX Update Released" thread. It's about how to fix the very short repedaling window in the latest CFX update. People might have missed that thread and the info and since I still see people complaining about the "unforgiving" repedaling, I thought I could share that in a new thread again.

Quote
...after a great communication with their main developer Jeff Hurchalla and is included in their latest download/update. Jeff also described to me how I can reconfigure the repedaling behavior, so I tweaked it to my liking and now CFX Lite is such a playable instrument! If someone needs to experiment with longer repedaling window, here's my custom config:

Backup the /Library/Application Support/Garritan/CFX Lite/Programs/CFX_Lite_Full.sfz (not sure what's the corresponding folder for Windows though), then open the file, and find a line that's similar to the one that follows. The one that follows contains my custom settings for repedaling:

Code
<midi>
  type=com.Garritan.Piano.MIDI.Preprocessor
  vendor_specific=298|1|299|0|296|24|297|64|295|7|301|0.020|302|0.020|303|0.020|304|0.020|305|0.020|306|0.020|307|0.020


Quote
Jeff actually explained to me what this line is for. I've asked him twice whether I can share that info here and he never said I couldn't (or I could), so I guess it's OK. Starting with the 301|0.020 are pairs of values where the first determines a region of notes while the second is a delay in seconds. When you press the pedal in the sense of repedaling (i.e. a note has already been released) the actual catch of the released portion of the note won't happen immediately after you press the pedal but after that delay. Here are the regions:

301 (stock value 0.150) covers A0 to D1
302 (stock value 0.127) covers Eb1 to G#1
303 (stock value 0.101) covers A1 to D2
304 (stock value 0.084) covers Eb2 to Bb2
305 (stock value 0.074) covers B2 to G#3
306 (stock value 0.068) covers A3 to G#4
307 (stock value 0.062) covers A4 up to the last note with dampers (G6)

TBH I don't know why is that. I believe it tries to simulate the fact that when you are pressing the pedal, the dampers don't lift immediately but travel a path during which they are still engaged and muting the string. Nevertheless, the stock values were way too high. Jeff is still surprised that I lowered those values so drastically compared to the stock but he said they may eventually incorporate my fixes in future updates. One may think he should do everything 0 (no delay) and I tried that but the repedaling gets unrealistically long and forgiving so some slight delay is indeed needed.


Quote
Jeff contacted me and kindly confirmed I can share those configs with you but wanted to stress out it is mandatory to backup your original file before doing any modifications because it can get messed and crash the piano which would require a reinstall. Besides, if there's an update, the file will get overwritten.


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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2599594
12/31/16 11:29 AM
12/31/16 11:29 AM
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Thanks for summarizing this in one New Year's post CyberGene. This is super useful and very clear

Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2600976
01/04/17 11:21 AM
01/04/17 11:21 AM
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JLG Offline
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As a complete newcomer to this forum, may I start by thanking you profusely for publishing these modifications.

Perhaps I may also be permitted to add to the thread by offering some assistance to those attempting to do the modifications on a PC.

The library and file name for that are as follows:
"C:\Program Files\Garritan\CFX Lite\Programs\CFX_Lite_Full.sfz"
(This assumes that you have adopted the installation program defaults and not altered the destination directories.)

As already stated, you should make a backup of the original file before attempting any modification.
It is also a sound scheme to make a copy of the file after modification, as any future update (assuming there may be some) is highly likely to overwrite this file.

In order to do the modification yourself one must open the file named above (i.e. CFX_Lite_Full.sfz) which is, in essence, a simple text file using the Windows Program "Wordpad".
(For those of you who may have the Notepad++ program, that would be a better option.
One then needs to scroll down a fair distance. The <midi> label is on line 398.
It is then possible to edit the text to that shown in CyberGene post above.

If anybody has problems with the above, then I can provide an already amended copy of the file.
Please request by PM.

Regards,
JLG.

Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2602654
01/09/17 10:30 PM
01/09/17 10:30 PM
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I recently upgraded to the CFX Full, and while I was able to locate the code in the CFX Lite version to replace, I seemingly can't find the corresponding code in the CFX Full. I'm assuming the following file is the one I'd need to edit:

"C:\Program Files\Garritan\CFX Concert Grand\Programs\CFX.sfz"

Any fellow Full owners out there who've tried this out?


Youtube piano recordings (classical music/video games/anime): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh9N3Xirs86USDQXE1WiwXg
Kawai Novus NV-10 / Yamaha Avantgrand N1 with Garritan CFX VST
Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2602657
01/09/17 10:35 PM
01/09/17 10:35 PM
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I'm a full owner.
I have not tried it.
very interested in results other have as well, with this mod.

Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2602752
01/10/17 06:04 AM
01/10/17 06:04 AM
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Near the beginning of the of CFX lite sfz file is the following comment:

"// Aside from filename and this line, this file should be exactly the same as (Full CFX Product) CFX.sfz"

So, I'm guessing, you're looking in the correct place.
As I said in my post, it's at line 398 in the lite version, i.e. a fair way down, after all the "curve" commands.

Any help?

Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: JLG] #2603007
01/10/17 08:29 PM
01/10/17 08:29 PM
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Well, I've scoured the entire file, but strangely I still can't find it. I even did a Control+F on some of the words that are supposed to be there, but nothing shows up either.


Youtube piano recordings (classical music/video games/anime): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh9N3Xirs86USDQXE1WiwXg
Kawai Novus NV-10 / Yamaha Avantgrand N1 with Garritan CFX VST
Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2603042
01/10/17 11:04 PM
01/10/17 11:04 PM
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In notepad (or similar) open the CFX.sfz file as noted above.
Then search for the term "MIDI" (say using control+f)
The correct line was the second instance on my file

Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2603099
01/11/17 03:51 AM
01/11/17 03:51 AM
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CyberGene Online content OP
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genuse, do you have the latest update installed? I believe repedaling features and configuration were added in the latest update.

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/11/17 03:51 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2603468
01/12/17 12:11 AM
01/12/17 12:11 AM
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Ah yes, I attempted it before installing the latest update, but now I was able to find the right lines, and it works great now. Thanks!


Youtube piano recordings (classical music/video games/anime): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh9N3Xirs86USDQXE1WiwXg
Kawai Novus NV-10 / Yamaha Avantgrand N1 with Garritan CFX VST
Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2667837
08/13/17 02:12 AM
08/13/17 02:12 AM
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CyberGene, I want to express my thanks as well for working this out with the support and posting it. It makes a world of difference!

Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2667841
08/13/17 03:36 AM
08/13/17 03:36 AM
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CyberGene Online content OP
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Thanks, I am glad this worked for you smile


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2667880
08/13/17 11:05 AM
08/13/17 11:05 AM
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CyberGene,

What specifically is the issue with the CFX Grand repedaling timing? And I don't mean to be facetious, but how are you determining that the corrected timing values are true to how a CFX grand actually behaves (I've never even seen one in person, tbh).

Since this is its own thread, I figure it may be worth describing the issue rather than just point to the CFX update thread?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2667882
08/13/17 11:20 AM
08/13/17 11:20 AM
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Writing from phone, so copy-paste from original update thread:

Otherwise, the [stock] repedaling, although working, is slightly unforgiving and requires you to be very fast. Unlike real pianos, regular digital pianos and Pianoteq. Vintage D suffers from the same repedaling "unforgiveness" though
-----

Basically in the default CFX there's a very short time window after you release a note and can then catch it by repedaling. As a result when playing as I usually play, I have bass notes cut out, ones that my repedaling couldn't catch. Can't say I've played hundreds of different grand pianos in my life. Most probably about 10-20. But never had this problem on a real piano. So I tweaked (prolonged the repedaling window) entirely to my liking, not emulating a particular real or digital piano. But it changed CFX for good for me and apparently to other people too. You can try it and revert if you don't like it. Or if you are happy with CFX as it is you don't need to bother at all.

Last edited by CyberGene; 08/13/17 11:24 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2667911
08/13/17 01:42 PM
08/13/17 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Otherwise, the [stock] repedaling, although working, is slightly unforgiving and requires you to be very fast. Unlike real pianos, regular digital pianos and Pianoteq. Vintage D suffers from the same repedaling "unforgiveness" though
-----

Basically in the default CFX there's a very short time window after you release a note and can then catch it by repedaling. As a result when playing as I usually play, I have bass notes cut out, ones that my repedaling couldn't catch. Can't say I've played hundreds of different grand pianos in my life. Most probably about 10-20. But never had this problem on a real piano. So I tweaked (prolonged the repedaling window) entirely to my liking, not emulating a particular real or digital piano. But it changed CFX for good for me and apparently to other people too. You can try it and revert if you don't like it. Or if you are happy with CFX as it is you don't need to bother at all.

Tweaking around might be appropriate for some freeware stuff, but from a paid virtual instrument I can expect to get that stuff right out of the box.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2667928
08/13/17 03:46 PM
08/13/17 03:46 PM
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Agree, sort of. I don't think there is a piano VST that doesn't need any playing around with the settings. The Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand sounds all right out of the box, so does the Giant from NI. They still need some tweaking to get better.

Garritan CFX sounds fine in the recordings I've heard, but there's always that echo or reverb, like it's far away. Some may like it, I have a hard time connecting to it. Pro Tools Expert says there'll always be that studio reverb to some extent, unless you disable the ambient mikes altogether, but then you're losing one of the microphone pairs.


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Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2711434
02/04/18 01:20 PM
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CyberGene, just helped me do this on my PC. I have Windows 10.
here is some info, to help anyone who may be wanting to try it. I used WordPad.
ok, first make sure to save a copy of the file that you are going to edit.
thank you very much for all of this CyberGene. you are very kind and generous.

"On Windows it usually won't allow you to edit and save files that reside in the folder where programs are installed. I believe that would apply to the file in question. In order to bypass that, you should first open Notepad or whatever editor you use as an administrator. In order to do that, you should find the shortcut for starting the editor in your start menu, right-click on it and choose "run as administrator" or whatever it is called. Then once the editor is running in administrator mode, you should open the CFX_Lite_Full.sfz file (If you have the full version, that file might have slightly different name). Once open, you should find the section that I pasted. For example you would search for it by opening a find menu (I guess Ctrl+F) and pasting the following string "type=com.Garritan.Piano.MIDI.Preprocessor" (without the quotes). You should be able to find this section and you will notice that the next line is the one that starts with "vendor_specific=..."

Replace what follows the equals sign with the following:
298|1|299|0|296|24|297|64|295|7|301|0.020|302|0.020|303|0.020|304|0.020|305|0.020|306|0.020|307|0.020

In case you don't know how to do that: copy the entire line above with Ctrl+C, then go back to the editor, select everything after the equals sign with your mouse and press Ctrl+V

Then save the file. If for some reason the save won't work (e.g. a dialog telling you it can't write the file), then you're not running in administrator mode. Make sure you're running in admin mode. If having difficulties with that you should ask people on the forum that use Windows because I've been a Mac guy for 10 years and my memory about how things work on Windows are fading.

Once you're able to save, you can start CFX and it should work. Since we modified the CFX Lite Full file, this means only presets that fall under full are affected, so make sure you're testing with those."

Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2719959
03/09/18 05:44 AM
03/09/18 05:44 AM
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Hi CyberGene

I just tried your tweak on my macbook, I use CFX Full version controlled by my Kawai MP7, it just sound better!!! wow.. thank you.


—Nor

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Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: CyberGene] #2759876
08/20/18 01:26 PM
08/20/18 01:26 PM
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I know this is an old thread but I thought I would try here before posting a new thread.

I just purchased CFX Lite and my first use of it was to record a midi file on my AvantGrand N2 and then open and play the file in CFX Lite. The piece was a Chopin Waltz and one thing that I noticed was that the bass notes often seemed to abruptly drop out. So they were not getting the sustain that I hear when playing the piano. Is this the type of issue that the change described in this thread will fix?

Edit - Also, I will normally release and re-pedal about every measure with the bass notes.

Thanks!

Last edited by Patrick Cox; 08/20/18 01:28 PM.
Re: Here's how to improve Garritan CFX repedaling timing [Re: Patrick Cox] #2759878
08/20/18 01:40 PM
08/20/18 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Patrick Cox
I know this is an old thread but I thought I would try here before posting a new thread.

I just purchased CFX Lite and my first use of it was to record a midi file on my AvantGrand N2 and then open and play the file in CFX Lite. The piece was a Chopin Waltz and one thing that I noticed was that the bass notes often seemed to abruptly drop out. So they were not getting the sustain that I hear when playing the piano. Is this the type of issue that the change described in this thread will fix?

Edit - Also, I will normally release and re-pedal about every measure with the bass notes.

Thanks!


The first thing to do is to get the update from Garritan for the CFX which introduces half- and repedal options. Try that first, switch on half- and repedaling in the options menu. That alone should improve things, I'd suppose. Then you can apply the CyberGene mod which should improve things even further. It's important to install the update first because it will overwrite the files that you will need to modify for the CyberGene mod.

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