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Steingraeber 138 #2578008
10/11/16 11:31 PM
10/11/16 11:31 PM
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Silver Handprint Offline OP
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After a multi-year upright search, which included dates and short-term flings with the likes of C. Bechstein Concert 8, Bösendorfer 130 CL, Steinway K, Blüthner M and S, Grotrian Concertino, and Steingraeber 130 (SFM and classic action), I've finally found the one.

Please meet my new Steingraeber 138 (w/ SFM action & sostenuto pedal). My tall, mellifluous siren arrived today, finally!

Her versatile voice is amazing. Träumerei is a reverie; Defying Gravity opens with a roar; Chopin Nocturne Bb m Op 9/1 rings like sweet bell.


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Strings tight, hammers light, flaps right: fly!
(My MacGyver idea: removable, non-invasive muffler rail for playing late at night occasionally. Thanks to my dealer for flawless execution! Trust me. I'm a professional engineer.)
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Silver Handprint; 10/12/16 08:26 AM. Reason: Corrected typos and clarified details
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Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Silver Handprint] #2578011
10/11/16 11:57 PM
10/11/16 11:57 PM
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Keith D Kerman Online content
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Congratulations! That is perhaps the most impressive upright made today.


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
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New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
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Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Silver Handprint] #2578013
10/12/16 12:06 AM
10/12/16 12:06 AM
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Toronto
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I've played that upright extensively. To me it's the greatest upright on earth. Congrats!



Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist
Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Silver Handprint] #2578086
10/12/16 06:41 AM
10/12/16 06:41 AM
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Germany
JoBert Offline
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I'm curious: Do you have the normal action or the SFM action?

Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Silver Handprint] #2578092
10/12/16 07:18 AM
10/12/16 07:18 AM
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Georgia, USA
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Where did you find it? Can't say that I've ever gotten to see one, just a bunch of 130s. Congrats!


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Silver Handprint] #2578163
10/12/16 11:58 AM
10/12/16 11:58 AM
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Richmond, Virginia
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Almaviva Offline
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Originally Posted by Silver Handprint
After a multi-year upright search, which included dates and short-term flings with the likes of C. Bechstein Concert 8, Bösendorfer 130 CL, Steinway K, Blüthner M and S, Grotrian Concertino, and Steingraeber 130 (SFM and classic action), I've finally found the one.


What is a Bluthner Model M? I've heard of the Model S, but not the Model M?

P.S. - Congratulations on your new Steingraeber 138. An impressive piano indeed!

Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Silver Handprint] #2578284
10/12/16 08:24 PM
10/12/16 08:24 PM
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Posts: 213
Paris, France
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Congrats! What a beast! For me it's the best upright nowadays...


Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02C
Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Almaviva] #2578364
10/13/16 08:30 AM
10/13/16 08:30 AM
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USA
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Silver Handprint Offline OP
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Thanks!

Pardon me. I meant Blüthner B instead of M.

Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Silver Handprint] #2578448
10/13/16 04:21 PM
10/13/16 04:21 PM
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Richmond, Virginia
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Almaviva Offline
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One of the pianos you auditioned was the Bluthner Model S, which is even larger than the Steingraeber 138 that you eventually purchased.

I'm curious about what you thought of the Bluthner Model S. How did it compare to the Steingraeber 138?

Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Silver Handprint] #2578483
10/13/16 08:33 PM
10/13/16 08:33 PM
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You mentioned several pianos that you auditioned. Did you by any chance try out the August Forster 134K, the Sauter Masterclass 130 or the Sauter Competence 130? If so, what did you think of them?

Last edited by Almaviva; 10/13/16 08:35 PM.
Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: terminaldegree] #2578517
10/13/16 11:56 PM
10/13/16 11:56 PM
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Silver Handprint Offline OP
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Thanks. I played one at Faust Harrison in NY and two at Allegro in CT. They all sounded wonderful with differences in their tone due to tuning and room acoustics and in the action due to relative balance between keys.

Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Silver Handprint] #2578549
10/14/16 05:01 AM
10/14/16 05:01 AM
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I don't know what Silver Handprint thinks about the Bluthner S compared with the Steingraeber 138 but I can tell you I love the Steingraeber 138 and really don't like the Bluthner S - in the case of the Bluthner the sound is good but the action is not.

Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: joe80] #2578963
10/15/16 11:38 AM
10/15/16 11:38 AM
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Silver Handprint Offline OP
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Hi, Almaviva,

Happy to help. Warning: long post.

Regarding August Förster 132K and Sauter 130 Masterclass, unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to play them. I really wanted to try the Sauter 130, especially after reading Tweedpipe's October 2008 post about his, but I haven't come across a dealer with it yet.

Sauter Uprights
I did play a Sauter Carrus 112, a Sauter Artes, and a Sauter Nova (perhaps?) with modern candle holders a number of times on different days over for a few months. The first sounded plain in the large, upright-packed showroom. The Artes was much better, but I didn't hear anything special about its tone. Some parts of the casework or desk resonated with a buzzing noise and distracted me. The Nova with the pair of candle holders was weird. First the holders weren't squarely attached to the front panel. Second, the action, specifically the after touch, felt like it was an electronic keyboard. I suspect it had to do with the silent play system, which also sounded poor to me when I wore the headset. Peering between the white keys, I could easily see the green plastic circuit board. The normal acoustics of the piano (silent system off) sounded fine, but I couldn't get over the weird action. As I travel often for work, I'll keep looking for the elusive Sauter 130.

Blüthner Uprights
To me, the tone of Blüthner uprights sound generally very clean and exact to the pitch. They are great in their peculiar way. I felt so the first time I played a Blüthner upright five years ago, and I still think so now after auditioning a few more. This summer I played a Blüthner B and a D for about 10 minutes each on two days in a small 25 ft x 30 ft x 8–9 ft tall room that had other uprights. The B had a very heavy action that felt like a major Hanon workout no matter what or how I played. It sounded interesting though. The tones of the fourth and fifth octaves rang like pure tones focused narrowly into my ears from a synthesizer. I thought it was really cool because an acoustic piano can sound electronic but didn't think it was for me. The Blüthner D was shorter and longer. The action felt much nimbler. My fingers danced on the keys effortlessly. The tone was pure, clean, and sweet to me. It sounded bigger than the case height would initially lead anyone to think. It is a good choice had I not already been smitten with Steingraeber.

The Blüthner S was a giant in a much bigger performance room. Essentially it's the B super-sized. The tone was about the same, only louder; action was just as stiff. The dealer explained that Blüthner designed the B and S with pianists who like to play into the keys more in mind. I appreciate the design; it's just not for me. So, I agree with joe80.

Grotrian Concertino
I played one Concertino extensively over a stretch three years. I loved the tone's presence and power. Unfortunately, no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't coax it to play softly at piano. Forget pianissimo. I got mezzo piano at best. I wish I encountered another Concertino to compare.

Bechstein Concert 8
I played three different Concert 8 uprights, all in large showrooms over the years. I loved the grainy texture of their black ebony keys. Their tones were clear, pure, and powerful throughout and different from what I heard in Steingraeber uprights, which some may describe as a tad warmer. Their actions were great too. I don't consider them better or worse than Steingraeber 130 or 138, just different. It's great to have variety as others have opined. Like the Blüthner D, the Concert 8 could have been my top choice had I not already fallen for the Steingraeber tone.

Steingraeber Uprights
The first time I played a Steingraeber piano was about five to six years ago. I recall liking the sound of that 138 K classic action but distinctly remember that the keyboard height was abnormally high compared with other uprights. Ever since, I've listened to many performances on YouTube with Steingraeber pianos but never was able to discern the nuances I was hoping to hear. I blame the digital audio compression.

I've played two Steingraeber 130 Uprights so far, one with the accelerated repetition action and the other with SFM. Their bass-to-tenor transitions were both seamless. Each bass note is distinct regardless of the dynamics. They blend beautifully with the tenor and treble in chords or arpeggios. They can whisper, rumble, or roar at my command. The second and third octaves reverberate peculiarly as if I'm hearing them in a wood-paneled great hall. The third octave, however, can sometimes overpower the fourth. The fifth and higher octaves sound like clear, sweet bells.

I did not notice any particular increase in speed for the accelerated repetition action. It was nimble and easy to play, well within the Goldilocks zone. I've never had trouble with trills on an upright, and this one was fine for me too. The SFM version was a little weird, however. Yes, the action allows you to play a note again if you lift your finger about a millimeter or two from a key you just played. It is pretty cool when you try it out and compare it to actions on grand pianos, but it's rare to never that I would ever play anything that requires this kind of finger action, which is like a woodpecker pecking. However, the drawback is a slight click you feel when you play the key softly and slowly—ppp (pianississimo), essentially. I felt the click when playing a key until it's about a millimeter from reaching the bottom. In other words, if standard key dip is 10 mm, then I felt it at 9 mm. This only happened when the key dips down; I didn't feel any click when the key returns up. The dealer explained that this haptic resistance comes from the magnets in the action. I noticed if I play at least a moderate tempo and at piano or louder, then I don't feel it at all.

My Steingraeber 138
I ultimately chose my 138 with SFM action after playing three other 138s with classic action because 1. it sounded the most balanced across all its octaves, 2. the SFM clicks were much less pronounced than the 130 I played with SFM, and 3. this dealer was accommodating, patient, and gave me a trustworthy vibe that after-sales service is excellent. In other words, I would have walked away had the dealer made me uncomfortable about anything despite points one and two.

As for the keyboard height problem, through trial and error over the many months, I learned that I need a seat height of 62 cm (24 inches). All the dealers say it's easy to install longer legs to an adjustable artist bench, and that's what I have. I like to sit forward, using only about a third of the seat. Using a thin cushion to slope the seat helps me tilt my hips and maintain a proper arch in lower back. Adding a 2 cm thick plank under my feet helps me feel anchored. I didn't need this plank in the showrooms because my soles provided the 2 cm, and the wheels rested directly on the floor without castor cups. At home with slippers or barefoot and castor cups, I noticed the difference. I'll keep experimenting until I find the best, elegant solution.

I'm excited that the weekend is finally here, for I have more time to play without disturbing neighbors at night. So far, I've discovered new sounds, a few different ways to coax these sounds from the piano, and started to feel the vibrations through the keys at my fingertips. Touch and tone form a reinforcing feedback loop, making me feel more connected to the music. It's wonderful!

My skill level is no where close to unlocking all that this piano can offer. But the key qualifier to append is yet. One day I'll be close, and in the meantime I'm enjoying the adventure of discovery and learning.


Disclaimers and Appreciation Notes
1. All statements are my opinions. I'm merely sharing what I experienced with a small sample of pianos over my multi-year search around the world. Your experience may differ, making your and others' search interesting and at times confusing and frustrating.

2. I learned extensively over the years by reading posts from fellow members, visiting dealers, talking to technicians, touring factories, discussing with other piano hobbyists and playing their pianos, reading P. Knize's odyssey, listening to high quality recordings—which, by the way, I'm still unable to fully discern the finer nuances enough to form an opinion of the piano played other than good and also good, so a sophisticated audiophile I am not—and researching the piano's history and evolution. I'm deeply grateful for all the time and hospitality that each person gave me. Your time, on the order of days each, is the greatest gift to me. Thank you. Chronicling my experience is my way of extending the gift to the community.

3. Many contributors write that playing the pianos in question is the best way to tell. I concur. Every piano I've played is slightly different—be it the tone, action, size, case design, pedal stiffness, etc. However, these contributors should also appreciate why people still like to ask for comparisons. My view is these comparisons helped me rank my priorities and plan my visits. There are so many variations that I didn't know where to start or continue to next, otherwise. I was careful not to dismiss any pianos wholly based on others' opinions but rather merely ranked them according which to try sooner.

4. My memories are amorphous and can be faulty, sometimes distorting how great or poor something really is. I'm doing my best to describe what I remember with my limited vocabulary.

5. What I hear may be different from what you hear because of myriad reasons—biological, psychological, etc. Is Your Red the Same as My Red? by Vsauce. Hence, my definition of adjectives and figurative language may differ from yours.

6. Lastly, I'm only an amateur who's played for many years continuously since first grade. It was always just for fun though I took my classes as seriously as any kid would with all the distractions there are for kids. I've never taken any exams and still just play for fun. It's a wonderful stress reliever from work.

Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Silver Handprint] #2579356
10/17/16 12:36 AM
10/17/16 12:36 AM
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Silver Handprint Offline OP
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I forgot to include these yesterday before I missed the revision time window. Pardon.

Bösendorfer 130 CL
So far, I've met one Bösendorfer upright and played it for about 15 minutes, comparing it to an adjacent Steingraeber 138. I recall the tone as rich, balanced, and powerful—but not as versatile as the Steingraeber. Jumping back and forth repeatedly between the two uprights was fun, and I quickly realized the Steingraeber suited my tastes better because of its peculiar tenor registers and balance between warmth and clarity across the board. To be fair, I reminded myself that the German is taller than the Austrian by about 8 cm and that height influences many design parameters. Nonetheless, my choice was clear. I would love to try another Bösendorfer upright and re-visit my assessment after I've acclimated to mine.

Steinway K-52
I encountered a used Steinway K a few months ago in a large showroom. To me, its tone was just loud and bright. The bass was strong but lacked clarity. The tenor sounded like I was listening through a metal can. The treble sang nicely though. Perhaps it was the acoustics of the room, but I suspect the piano needed tuning. I hope to meet another one in the near future for comparison.


Errata
1. The August Förster upright's model name is 134 K, not 132 K. Excuse me.

2. Sauter Cura is the upright I played with candle holders. I incorrectly called it a Nova.

3. SFM clicks: nitpicking. After playing my piano some more, I now notice a minute click in the upstroke. It's barely there and much less obvious than the click in the downstroke, which, as I wrote yesterday, is triggered only if I play extremely slowly and softly. So the upstroke click is not a problem for me at all.

4. Link to Tweedpipe's October 2008 post about his Sauter 122 Masterclass. I incorrectly referred to it as a 130 Masterclass.

Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Silver Handprint] #2580730
10/21/16 10:33 PM
10/21/16 10:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,586
New York
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LJC Offline
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New York
I played a Steingraeber upright at Faust Harrison a couple of years ago. I didn't ask the model but I think it was a 138 based on the photo here. I thought it was the best upright I ever played. I told Ori that. It really surprised me how good it was.

Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Silver Handprint] #2597998
12/25/16 06:12 PM
12/25/16 06:12 PM
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Silver Handprint Offline OP
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I finally recorded my beautifully sounding Steingraeber 138 today—just in time for Christmas 2016—with a Zoom H4n Pro recorder. Pardon the background noise and ticking clock, which served as my metronome.

Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas!

Set up details, for those interested:
Recorder is about 100 cm directly behind my back at neck level. Piano lid is opened to "full stick" but covered with a cotton canvas dust cover. I have yet to find the sweet spot, as this is my inaugural recording, so stay tuned.

Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Silver Handprint] #2598001
12/25/16 07:11 PM
12/25/16 07:11 PM
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That is seriously beautiful. I adore the big Steingraeber uprights, and that reminds me why !

Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Silver Handprint] #2598146
12/26/16 02:11 PM
12/26/16 02:11 PM
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Posts: 158
San Jose / Bay Area / Gilroy ...
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I am envious, as that is one of the finest upright pianos in the world.. Spectacular! Congratulations on this buy!

Enjoy and share with all your friends!



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Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Scott McBain] #2598147
12/26/16 02:18 PM
12/26/16 02:18 PM
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Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
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Keith D Kerman Online content
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Originally Posted by Scott McBain
I am envious, as that is one of the finest upright pianos in the world.. Spectacular! Congratulations on this buy!

Enjoy and share with all your friends!



FWIW, I wish to compliment Scott McBain on this post. It is an unqualified compliment of a piano he does not represent. Well done.


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out http://sitkadoc.com/
www.twitter.com/pianocraft https://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

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Re: Steingraeber 138 [Re: Silver Handprint] #2598209
12/26/16 07:59 PM
12/26/16 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Silver Handprint

(...)
My Steingraeber 138
I ultimately chose my 138 with SFM action after playing three other 138s with classic action because 1. it sounded the most balanced across all its octaves, 2. the SFM clicks were much less pronounced than the 130 I played with SFM, and 3. this dealer was accommodating, patient, and gave me a trustworthy vibe that after-sales service is excellent. In other words, I would have walked away had the dealer made me uncomfortable about anything despite points one and two.
(...)

I absolutely agree with you about point 3,
and am curious about points 1 and 2.
So, regulation and voicing was not done at its best for many of the tested pianos, and you have had to find the one which actually got the golden pre sales technical service (and to continue with this you of course will now go on receiving the post sales service from that very same technician)?

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