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Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597622
12/23/16 10:05 PM
12/23/16 10:05 PM
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Posts: 54
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Bagong Offline OP
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Hello All:

Thank you for all the suggestions. After listening to your comment - it is best that I pass on this Baldwin and look for other pianos. I will save more money toward a better piano.

This forum is very helpful - I really appreciate it.

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Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597626
12/23/16 10:44 PM
12/23/16 10:44 PM
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Posts: 248
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Just Steven Offline
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Originally Posted by Bagong
I will save more money toward a better piano.

Don't invest too much on piano. You don't need it a good piano to become a good musician.

Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597628
12/23/16 10:54 PM
12/23/16 10:54 PM
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Posts: 12,623
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Originally Posted by JustSteven
Don't invest too much on piano. You don't need it a good piano to become a good musician.

True.

But a nice piano is fun to play and a lot more pleasurable to play than playing a piano of poor quality or in poor condition. By the same token, if you enjoy playing the piano more, you will play more often, and your playing skills will improve.

And, while a piano is an investment to an extent, it is also an expendable/consumable item more so than an investment. In other words, they do wear out and deteriorate with time...

Just my .02.

Rick


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Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597630
12/23/16 11:07 PM
12/23/16 11:07 PM
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Just Steven Offline
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Johann Sebastian Bach did not have a piano.
Handel only had a harpsichord.
Mozart's piano wasn't good, and he rarely played it; he mostly played a clavier.

Consumerism is full of hypes.

Last edited by Just Steven; 12/23/16 11:08 PM.
Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597643
12/24/16 12:22 AM
12/24/16 12:22 AM
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I assume you have enough room to easily place a concert grand in your home. If the intent is for your 12 yo son, however, in a few years he may not have that kind of room. A nice 6-7 foot grand is likely to be adequate and more practical.

Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597668
12/24/16 03:32 AM
12/24/16 03:32 AM
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Reseda, California
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JohnSprung Offline
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A concert grand that's not up to snuff for a concert venue, but still very good, is likely to be the most cost effective piano you can buy. I have one. If you have the room, keep looking for concert grands. So few people have the room that prices on used 9 ft. pianos are surprisingly low.

Figure on the piano staying where it is when your son goes to college. He likely won't have room for any acoustic piano there, more likely just a slab digital, and the school's practice room pianos. He'll come home more often if it means both a good grand and laundry.... ;-)



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Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Just Steven] #2597709
12/24/16 08:43 AM
12/24/16 08:43 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,959
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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Originally Posted by Just Steven
Johann Sebastian Bach did not have a piano.
Handel only had a harpsichord.
Mozart's piano wasn't good, and he rarely played it; he mostly played a clavier.

Consumerism is full of hypes.


The return of Gyro for the holidays- a Festivus miracle!


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Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Just Steven] #2597726
12/24/16 10:45 AM
12/24/16 10:45 AM
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Posts: 316
Maryland, USA
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Davdoc Offline
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Maryland, USA
Originally Posted by Just Steven
Johann Sebastian Bach did not have a piano.
Handel only had a harpsichord.
Mozart's piano wasn't good, and he rarely played it; he mostly played a clavier.

Consumerism is full of hypes.


According to a WikiPedia article, which apparently did have a reference that I didn't have time or authority to verify, J.S. Bach did own some instruments in his estate. He certainly didn't like pianos of his time, still at the instruments' infancy.

Bach's estate

It's true that professional pianists don't always have the most expensive or exotic instruments. Many of them, if heavily engaged, are constantly on concert tours that they barely spend time on their own piano(s).


1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
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Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5
Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: terminaldegree] #2597732
12/24/16 10:56 AM
12/24/16 10:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 307
In the mountains of NC
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In the mountains of NC
I don't think that purchasing a 9' anything for a 12 yo child who's only been playing for 18 months is very wise. What's your son currently playing on? Is it not sufficient?

Regards,
Andy


1979 Yamaha C7D - Yamaha P115 - Korg MicroKORG synth. - Korg Kaossilator Pro synth.
Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597743
12/24/16 12:10 PM
12/24/16 12:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
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Miguel Rey Offline
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Sound advice given by some regarding getting the piano checked out 100% by a qualified tech with experience or you may end up with a nice looking piece of furniture if the piano can't hold tune or starts breaking strings.

I would also not pay much attention to those trying to lecture you and whether or not a concert grand piano is suitable for your son. Buy what you can afford and what you want and have enough space for. Besides I think one would be able to develop better technique from a large grand with a good action.




Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597746
12/24/16 12:33 PM
12/24/16 12:33 PM
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Ed A. Hall Offline
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The soundboard wood appears very dark. If the wood action parts are dark as well, they are going to very brittle. But it's possible that it has been replaced. That's why it's important to hire a qualified tech with rebuilding experience to check it out before proceeding. If you do go check it out, share some recordings using an iPhone or something like a portable Zoom device. Often, just the way it sounds is a quick way to rule out something.

Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: terminaldegree] #2598120
12/26/16 11:58 AM
12/26/16 11:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,780
Atlanta, GA
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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by Just Steven
Johann Sebastian Bach did not have a piano.
Handel only had a harpsichord.
Mozart's piano wasn't good, and he rarely played it; he mostly played a clavier.

Consumerism is full of hypes.


The return of Gyro for the holidays- a Festivus miracle!
grin In the spirit of the holidays, I will not ridicule Steven's logic.

The musical immortals might have excelled with a stick, a rock and some twine, but the rest of us mortals need encouragement from an instrument that inspires, in whatever level we can reach for.

To the OP, work towards a few broad criteria first like size and budget where there are examples to be found in the market. You may quickly be able to weed out the potentials from the non-starters.


Sam Bennett
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Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2598138
12/26/16 01:06 PM
12/26/16 01:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 54
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Bagong Offline OP
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Thank you for the sound advises.

My son originally had a Rolland electric piano that we bought used, but then the piano teacher recommended a real acoustic piano. Currently, my son has a Knabe 5'8" grand from 1924 - it is a player model. We replaced the hammers and have it regulated, but it does not play as loud as the Knabe 5'1" (of around the same era) that his sister has. His Knabe only has 1 very thin but tight hair line crack and her Knabe is about the same, but I was expecting that the 5'8" would play louder - especially at the base. Is it because the tech did not "voice" the hammers and it is expected that new hammers will play "soft"?

We got both piano from two older ladies who wanted to pass their pianos for younger children to learn, so we only paid shipping cost. We were given a Steinway A (85 keys) by another kind hearted lady. It does not play loud also but no buzzing.

May be the first thing that I should do is to find a good expert locally to check if some minor work could be done on his Knabe and the Steinway to make them louder. I live in New Hampshire - if any of you knows piano technician in the area who can give deep technical assessment.

While I am investing time and money for both of them to learn piano (as long as they practice), I am not expecting any of them to become a musician to earn a living. I just want them to be able to enjoy music and help their formative brains to develop for good math/science foundation. I was considering the Baldwin simply because the store St. Paul is willing to trade with the Steinway and I do have a corner in the house that will fit the Baldwin well.

Thank you again for the kind replies.





Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Just Steven] #2598144
12/26/16 01:51 PM
12/26/16 01:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,050
London
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David-G Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,050
London
Originally Posted by Just Steven
Johann Sebastian Bach did not have a piano.
Handel only had a harpsichord.
Mozart's piano wasn't good, and he rarely played it; he mostly played a clavier.

Consumerism is full of hypes.


Mozart's piano wasn't good? For the last decade of his life Mozart had a piano by Walter, perhaps the most famous maker in Vienna at this time. As a virtuoso pianist, he would have wanted the best.

"As a born pianist," writes Eva Bandura-Skoda, an Austrian musicologist and an expert on history of fortepiano, 'Mozart understandably wanted to own the very best concert grand available. His instrument, still remains the best fortepiano of the period, an excellent concert grand, precious not only because Mozart gave his many subscription concerts on it, but also because of its quality."

See this article.

"Klavier" is a generic German word for a keyboard instrument. It could refer to a harpsichord, clavichord or a piano.

Handel only had a harpsichord? A harpsichord can be a magnificent instrument. Certainly the Ruckers copy in the Handel House in London is a superb instrument, see here. I believe that Handel had an harpsichord like this.

Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: David-G] #2598164
12/26/16 04:04 PM
12/26/16 04:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 248
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Just Steven Offline
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Originally Posted by David-G


Mozart's piano wasn't good? For the last decade of his life Mozart had a piano by Walter, perhaps the most famous maker in Vienna at this time. As a virtuoso pianist, he would have wanted the best.


Mozart's piano is a museum in Vienna. Go compare it with Baldwin of golden age.
Originally Posted by David-G

"Klavier" is a generic German word for a keyboard instrument. It could refer to a harpsichord, clavichord or a piano.

The history says it's Virginal--it's no piano or harpsichord.
Originally Posted by David-G

Handel only had a harpsichord? A harpsichord can be a magnificent instrument.

I did not say it's not magnificent. It's no piano either.

You to proved my point.

Last edited by Just Steven; 12/26/16 04:05 PM.
Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2598176
12/26/16 05:43 PM
12/26/16 05:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,050
London
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David-G Offline
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London
I am afraid I am confused. You are saying that Mozart rarely played his piano, because it was not a Golden Age instrument?

Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2598236
12/26/16 09:23 PM
12/26/16 09:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 121
MADISON, MISSISSIPPI
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Piano Practice Offline
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MADISON, MISSISSIPPI
I recently had a chance to play on SD-10 (restored, circa 1979) in a Nashville store... It was an exceptional piano... there's a huge difference between the 1909 era (model D?) and what Baldwin eventually produced with the SD-10... My own perferance is something more modern... I would stay away from something that old. If you want to continue though, you might want to find out what the history is for this one...why is the seller wanting to sell (are they trying to unload it?). Has it ever been restored? Also, if you have a friend that can really play well and "test drive" it , that may help give an objective opinion... just me saying..

(Bach had access to massive pipe organs in his church 🤔)

Thanks


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Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2598245
12/26/16 10:19 PM
12/26/16 10:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,505
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Quote
Just Steven- can you clarify your "for the rich" comment? It doesn't make sense. Also your suggestion about listening to the duration of the "highest note", however well intentioned, is a really bad way to judge sustain, as a 2-minute adjustment to the high treble strike point can make a huge difference.


Amazing how many "top technicians" I have seen doing this very test over the years.

IMHO a total waste in determining a piano's musical appeal. With nothing also being revealed about its technical condition...

P.S. 9' Baldwins can be great pianos - if finding right model!

Norbert smile

Last edited by Norbert; 12/26/16 10:19 PM.

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Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2598367
12/27/16 11:27 AM
12/27/16 11:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,885
San Jose, CA
Jeff Clef Offline
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"...I am afraid I am confused. You are saying that Mozart rarely played his piano, because it was not a Golden Age instrument?..."

...which was well in the future, on his personal timeline. But the good news is, that Mozart generated his own Golden Age.

About the OP's wish for his childrens' current pianos to "play louder." This is a request we don't hear every day around here. The usual prayers are for ways to make pianos in the home less loud, for the sake of the wife, the neighbors, or the writer's own hearing. But if I understand the question, I think Bagong is saying that he wants a greater dynamic range for the three pianos already in the home, which will afford greater control of the whole sound envelope. Hopefully, ppp to ffff (and a back action which works properly for the tone quality effect of the sostenuto pedal). That's what I would want.

Two 5'8" Knabe's of the Baltimore era, both with cracked soundboards, and a smaller Steinway--- if I have it right. So, I am wondering if he really needs three grands in his house, all of them loud? A technician who knows how to voice might help him with what he has. Also, the rooms where each of the pianos live might be evaluated for some acoustic treatment, so that they give back more of what these pianos are already giving.

Again, usually we hear people pleading for acoustic treatments to reduce volume, curb sonic distortions, and increase detail, but the science can certainly go both ways. Finding a qualified person could be a challenge, but some guidance could be gotten from manufacturers of acoustic treatment products, and they may also know of practioners in New Hampshire. If he can find out what architects have designed performance venues like halls (or studios), they may be willing to point the way to their consultants.

But--- why not sell all the older pianos which are not sounding as you wish, and buy a single modern piano at least seven feet long? I think that will get you most of what you want, as long as you have a competent piano tech to bring out the best of what it has to offer in those critical first five years.


Last edited by Jeff Clef; 12/27/16 12:01 PM.

Clef

Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2598378
12/27/16 11:52 AM
12/27/16 11:52 AM
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Ed A. Hall Offline
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Is this the same piano on eBay for $6999?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252620202370?redirect=mobile

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