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Baldwin Concert Grand #2597381
12/23/16 09:06 AM
12/23/16 09:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 54
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Bagong Offline OP
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Hello:

I am thinking about purchasing a 1909 Baldwin concert grand 9' for my son. I have yet to arrange for a tech to check on it as I am want to get some idea on the reputation of a Baldwin piano from that era.

How is the 1909 Baldwin concert grand compared to the SD-10? The harp is different.

I asked pictures of the soundboard and it seems to be in good shape. I will attach them when I figure out how to attach pics in this forum.

Thank you.
Suti

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Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597390
12/23/16 09:47 AM
12/23/16 09:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 248
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Just Steven Offline
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Originally Posted by Bagong
The harp is different.

Hardly-- The 1909's is a modern design.

In 1909, it was made only for the rich. Today's isn't.
The 1909's was a golden age piano. If the highest note could sustain up to standard duration and no cracks on the bridge, it could even be better than SD-10 in tone quality.

Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597419
12/23/16 11:33 AM
12/23/16 11:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,205
Nor California Sacramento area
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Dale Fox Offline
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Nor California Sacramento area
It's old. There is no way to look at pictures and have any idea of it's condition. Pianos are machines and as such need maintenance. You need a GOOD technician to evaluate it before you make a decision.


Dale Fox
Registered Piano Technician
Remanufacturing/Rebuilding
Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597421
12/23/16 11:46 AM
12/23/16 11:46 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,023
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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Georgia, USA
How kind of a gesture! A few questions that may help to elicit a better answer from us: What level of player is your son, and how intensely will the piano be used? How original is the piano, and what has been replaced (and when, and by whom)? Has the piano been in an area of the country with wide seasonal humidity swings? It's good that you're going to have it inspected - the current condition of the piano (now over a century old) is 100 times more important than the instrument's reputation. A visual inspection of a soundboard is not a useful indicator of its performance. I've seen some great looking ones that have sub-par ringtime and others that look like Swiss cheese that performed better than I'd have guessed.

Do keep in mind used concert grands are notoriously difficult to sell, so it's a buyer's market in that sense, but it's even more important that you choose wisely-- otherwise your son may end up having to dispose of an unsellable "dog" of a piano if things don't work out.

Just Steven- can you clarify your "for the rich" comment? It doesn't make sense. Also your suggestion about listening to the duration of the "highest note", however well intentioned, is a really bad way to judge sustain, as a 2-minute adjustment to the high treble strike point can make a huge difference. Did you mean to say the "killer" (5th) octave, perhaps?


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: terminaldegree] #2597434
12/23/16 12:11 PM
12/23/16 12:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 54
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Bagong Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 54
Hello All:

Thank you for the comments. How can I attach pictures? It seems to ask me to point to a URL.

My son has been playing piano for 18 months now and he practices ~2 hr a day. We (he plays and I support) got into piano so that he can "soften" his personality and help him to be good in math. He is 12. Seeing how he is progressing - I thought to get him a good piano that he can use to play for his "lifetime". Honestly, I don't want him to be a concert pianist, but for him to be good enough that he can enjoy for the rest of his life.

How can I get a good tech in the St. Paul (Minnesota)? Any recommendation?

Thank you.
Suti

Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597436
12/23/16 12:14 PM
12/23/16 12:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,791
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,791
Atlanta, GA
Baldwin's concert grands went through numerous changes between 1909 and the SD-10. I would not dub that a "Golden Era" for Baldwin as they really hit their stride later.

Is this a restored piano? original? partially rebuilt?

Keep in mind that concert grand piano are similar to race cars. They tend to be incredibly well made with some of the best materials and workmanship, but they are also only advantageous to the user when they are "race ready".

If it is fully restored or recently fully restored, pursue it. If you intend to buy the body and restore it as a project with a top shop, consult with the shop you intend to use. If it's just old and of mystery condition but seems interesting, you should probably pass.


Sam Bennett
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Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597447
12/23/16 12:26 PM
12/23/16 12:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,302
Seattle, WA USA
E
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,302
Seattle, WA USA
All the pre SD-6 Baldwin concert grands I have seen have problems with the strike point in the lower treble area, Note 50 up to note 65. The agraffes and lower V-bar position on the casting is too close to the hammer line to produce best tone. The error is too great to be able to solve by gluing the hammers on the shanks longer and still have the action function properly.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597451
12/23/16 12:28 PM
12/23/16 12:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,472
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Retsacnal Offline

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You can find a registered piano technician (RPT) by clicking on this link and entering your zip code:

Find an RPT

There may be other competent technicians in your area who are not members, but you'll have to search for them (word of mouth, referral, Google search, etc).



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597455
12/23/16 12:35 PM
12/23/16 12:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,472
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Retsacnal Offline

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I have a confessed affinity for old Baldwins, but as terminaldegree mentioned above, the individual piano's condition is paramount. Don't rely on boilerplate advice based on brands, ages or eras. If you like the piano enough to consider it, then have it inspected. That will give you concrete information on which to base a decision.




"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597460
12/23/16 12:50 PM
12/23/16 12:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,472
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Retsacnal Offline

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Originally Posted by Bagong
How can I attach pictures? It seems to ask me to point to a URL.


If you have the pictures hosted somewhere, you can just paste in a link. Or, if you want the actual picture to show up in this thread, and you're using the "Full Reply" editor, you can click the "Enter an image" button and paste the link into the prompt.

Alternatively, you can host them here on PianoWorld, but the process is somewhat cryptic.



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597472
12/23/16 01:03 PM
12/23/16 01:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,039
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
K
Keith D Kerman Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Keith D Kerman  Offline
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K

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,039
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
I would strongly suggest getting in touch with Kieran Wells at Wells Piano in your area. http://www.wellspianos.com/


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
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Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597473
12/23/16 01:04 PM
12/23/16 01:04 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,023
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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Georgia, USA
PM me if you like. I know a good tech/rebuilder in Stillwater.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: terminaldegree] #2597527
12/23/16 03:05 PM
12/23/16 03:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 54
B
Bagong Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2016
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Last edited by Bagong; 12/23/16 05:26 PM.
Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597541
12/23/16 04:14 PM
12/23/16 04:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,050
London
D
David-G Offline
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David-G  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,050
London
You can find instructions for posting pictures here.

Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597565
12/23/16 05:46 PM
12/23/16 05:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 54
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Bagong Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 54
Thank you all for the pointers. I am able to post the pictures per instruction from David-G. See previous posting and also the link below:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/galleries/2597557.html#Post2597557

I don't know the answers to many of the questions that you asked - but I will call the seller and schedule a piano tech to come and check it out.

I am interested in this Baldwin as the store is willing to consider a trade (plus some TBD cash from me) for my Steinway A (85 keys). That Steinway did not play loud at all, but there is no buzzing. The soundboard has cracks (visible) and I counted that there are 11 screws on the ribs which anchored them to the soundboard. I figured that it is not worthwhile to restore this Steinway.

Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597568
12/23/16 06:09 PM
12/23/16 06:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,472
🎹
Retsacnal Offline

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Retsacnal  Offline

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Nice color! Interesting to see something different than the usual.



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597577
12/23/16 06:36 PM
12/23/16 06:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 839
K
Karl Watson Offline
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Karl Watson  Offline
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K

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 839
Note very carefully the preceding post by Ed McMorrow. If he says that something can't be changed or fixed, you can be sure of it.
The great days of the Baldwin concert grand came many years later.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597589
12/23/16 07:05 PM
12/23/16 07:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,262
Reseda, California
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JohnSprung Offline
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JohnSprung  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,262
Reseda, California

For anything Baldwin, always check with Robert Estrin at Living Pianos in Santa Ana. He's an expert on them, and usually has several in stock, including concert grands.



-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

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Yamaha CP33
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Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597599
12/23/16 07:53 PM
12/23/16 07:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 655
Columbus, GA
S
S. Phillips Offline
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S. Phillips  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 655
Columbus, GA
The pictures provided are not very helpful. Try to get some of the action, tuning pin area and cast iron plate. This is not a particularly desirable model. Baldwin's smaller grands of the same period were better. Definitely have a tech look at it but try to find a rebuilder, not a regular tuner who may not have much experience with Baldwins of this age.

If you are trying to get a performance quality piano for an advanced student, this will not be it.

Last edited by S. Phillips; 12/23/16 07:54 PM.

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Re: Baldwin Concert Grand [Re: Bagong] #2597606
12/23/16 09:07 PM
12/23/16 09:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,131
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huaidongxi Offline
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Posts: 1,131
Bagong, if you wish to give your child the priceless boon of a piano to have for his lifetime, choosing a piano at the end of its life span is contrary to your intentions. there are some vintage grands, properly restored, that would fulfill your desires, but you have been given a number of yellow and orange caution lights by folks here who know the old baldwin grands. enjoy the quest and buona fortuna.

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