Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
60 registered members (aliaksej, Alex C, Artur Gajewski, campfire, Beowulf, Animisha, bambooninja, Charles Cohen, 15 invisible), 893 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? #2594650
12/13/16 11:22 PM
12/13/16 11:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 25
VIC, Australia
A
aokman Offline OP
Full Member
aokman  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 25
VIC, Australia
Hi All,

Glad to be a part of the forums and hello smile

Wanted to get everyone's opinions on what would be the best choice between the Kawai CS11 and Casio GP500. I know you really need to play them for sure, problem is I am getting this as a surprise present for the mrs who is reasonably advanced on the piano and mentioned these 2 at the top of her list. I am learning now also and want something to with plenty of room to grow.

The main issues I have noted between the 2 is if escapement simulation is a good idea or not (Kawai has it, Casio doesn't). I am sure both are good quality but seems Kawai has a few issues that come up with the keys as they get some use on them but haven't heard a peep from Casio but that could be because no one has brought them. Another surprising thing was to see the 23KG weight difference between them.

I will be checking them both out in store obviously but wanted to get some experienced opinions from people on here if possible as I want it to be a surprise. I have already checked out the Kawai CS11 and it sounded amazing but reading about some of the Casio's features were also impressive in different ways.

Price wise:

Kawai CS11 - $5600 AUD
Casio GP500 - $6600 AUD

thanks smile

(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: aokman] #2594660
12/14/16 12:24 AM
12/14/16 12:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 477
Los Angeles, CA
J
Joe Garfield Offline
Full Member
Joe Garfield  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 477
Los Angeles, CA
I wouldn't hesitate to get the Kawai (I'm getting one this weekend, actually - CAx7 or CS1x). I also read about the issues people are having with the CA97 action. Kawai has been making some version of that action for a long time - it's really not that different, mechanically, from the wood actions of the older pianos. So my guess is that there is/was an affected production run, and/or maybe we just happen to be reading about the small handful of 'imperfect' actions out of the many.

Kawai's customer service is wonderful. I had an issue with a new MP10 and they had a tech over to my house in a couple of days to fix it.

I can't say much about the Casio since I haven't seen or tried it. I'm sure I've read the same stuff as you - if you hadn't read about the issues with the CA97, would you still be trying to make this decision?

Kawai's GFII with the triple sensor, letoff, and improved sensor timing is pretty phenomenal. I personally get hung up on the escapement of some stiffer or sticker actions in the conservatory where I take lessons, so I really welcome Kawai's letoff simulation, and would be disappointed playing anything without it (since I have it on the MP10 as well).

Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: aokman] #2594665
12/14/16 01:13 AM
12/14/16 01:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 25
VIC, Australia
A
aokman Offline OP
Full Member
aokman  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 25
VIC, Australia
Thanks for the reply!

I don't have an issue going either way to be honest quality wise but its never nice reading about issues with the key bed quality. That said it wouldn't stand in my way of getting one...

Probably the biggest thing I got hung up on was having a DP with escapement or having one without as opinions seem to be split down the middle between the 2. That said I think the quality of the CS11 will be superior especially given its hefty 100KG weight (and the $1000 saving - on special) but I did like some of the other settings on the Casio such as the scene setting and concert play not to mention the 3 piano samples it comes with.

Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: aokman] #2594666
12/14/16 01:14 AM
12/14/16 01:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 860
Poland
K
kapelli Offline
500 Post Club Member
kapelli  Offline
500 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 860
Poland
Do not buy any of them until you will play. Both are good, however they are entirely different. So unless you want to make someone unhappy, go to the shop for test play and never ever buy the piano for the pianist without the player agreeing on particular model,

(ad) SWEETWATER
Sweetwater 1000s of deals on Gear
Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: aokman] #2594668
12/14/16 01:26 AM
12/14/16 01:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,482
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,482
Hamamatsu, Japan
aokman, welcome to the forum.

I agree with kapelli, and would strongly advise that you involve your wife in the decision-making process - especially if she is already a proficient pianist. I appreciate that this may dampen the surprise somewhat, but it can still be a memorable occasion. Perhaps take her out for lunch and plan the restaurant to be within walking distance of the piano dealer. Visit the store before eating, playing the instruments thoroughly, then go for lunch and discuss what you aspects of each piano you enjoyed. Finally, after the meal, return to the piano store for another round of play-testing before making your joint decision.

If I was in your position, this would probably be my plan of action...although my wife may question why I was even considering an instrument other than Kawai. wink

Best of luck!

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: aokman] #2594673
12/14/16 03:22 AM
12/14/16 03:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 45
Thailand
T
ThaiBlue Offline
Full Member
ThaiBlue  Offline
Full Member
T

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 45
Thailand
I have the Casio. I tried both (as well as others) and preferred the Casio even at the higher price point. I love it and it currently gets more use than my acoustic. Both were very good though and there will be others who prefer the Kawai, Roland or Yamaha. It is very much down to individual preference.



Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: aokman] #2594704
12/14/16 08:22 AM
12/14/16 08:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 14
London, UK
B
Bach2Black Offline
Junior Member
Bach2Black  Offline
Junior Member
B

Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 14
London, UK
I would definitely agree she has to try them especially since she is advanced she might have a strong preference and you don't want her every time she sits down at the piano to regret not having chosen herself. Now you say the two are at the top of the list, so she might have already tried them, but it's still worth having a second more focused go. I like Kawai James suggestion, in my experience that still counts as a surprise, even though the surprise is not on the exact day of the birthday. If you really want it to be a surprise on the correct day, you could still plan lunch next to the piano store and then happen to pass in front and suggest you go in, since you're curious what they sound like or something.

In terms of comparison, I would say the action is very different but both great, casio being lighter than the kawai. At this level preference is very personal. Some say that the escapement simulation helps with added tactile feedback, for me it wasn't very important, I enjoyed playing on the Casio just as much maybe slightly more as I found the Kawai a bit heavy. And the Casio is ridiculously fast, have her try some trills next time. Also Casio lets you view the fake hammer set up, I think it looks nice, but you might find it gimmicky. But personally, I felt the CS11 had a much better, fuller more realistic sound than the Casio, so I went with Kawai in the end (the CA97 but I thought CS11 sound was even better).

In terms of difference in weight, the CS11 is slightly heavier than most high end DPs (Roland LX17, Yamaha 585, casio 500, etc...) I think it's down to the soundboard and the fact the cabinet is based on their acoustic pianos. Maybe it helps with the sound, but I would definitely not say the casio is too light, they are both heavy DPs and ultimately what matters is how they sound & feel to you.

Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: aokman] #2594808
12/14/16 02:05 PM
12/14/16 02:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 203
A
ADWyatt Offline
Full Member
ADWyatt  Offline
Full Member
A

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 203
As many people here have said, she really needs to try out all of the available pianos in the price range you've set up, so why not buy here a gorgeous Christmas card, the inside of which reads "My darling, music is as central to your soul as my love for you. To honor you, I am giving you your choice of ..." and so on. But don't forget to include Roland and Yamaha for her choices. While I'm particular to Kawai, I know that they also make great digital pianos.

Presenting such a truly wonderful gift to your beloved might also have unforeseen benefits for you. You might not have to wash dishes until February.

Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: kapelli] #2594883
12/14/16 08:45 PM
12/14/16 08:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,624
Richmond, BC, Canada
C
Charles Cohen Online content
4000 Post Club Member
Charles Cohen  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,624
Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted by kapelli
Do not buy any of them until you will play. Both are good, however they are entirely different. So unless you want to make someone unhappy, go to the shop for test play and never ever buy the piano for the pianist without the player agreeing on particular model,


+1 !!!!!!

That's especially true if she's judging the actions by what she can find on the Internet.

Verbal descriptions are very poor at expressing the difference in _feel_, between two DP's.

Much better to test-play, with the volume at realistic levels, and being willing to experiment with the "Touch" setting in the menu.

Bring headphones. Even for stuff in your price range (which has good speakers and amps), it's worth hearing what they sound like "straight to the ears".



. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: Kawai James] #2594913
12/14/16 11:31 PM
12/14/16 11:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3
K
koo Offline
Junior Member
koo  Offline
Junior Member
K

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3
Kawai James: nice plan! Also, maybe the most helpful comment of all time!

Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: aokman] #2594914
12/14/16 11:34 PM
12/14/16 11:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 25
VIC, Australia
A
aokman Offline OP
Full Member
aokman  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 25
VIC, Australia
Thanks for the comments everyone, ended up taking her past the shop today and we both tried the CS11 and GP500. A little closer to a decision but we are both torn between them hahaha.

The Kawai CS11 cabinet quality is superior, feels more premium and the soundboard really does give that extra realism that is sadly lacking from the Casio with vibrations and resonance coming through the housing and keys especially in the lower end, not to mention it wasn't even backed to a wall compared to the Casio... The keys were divisive though, I am learning on a Kawaii upright when having lessons and it does feel similar with a heavyish action but is definitely heavier than the Casio and the key quality was a bit of a let down to be honest. Quite a bit of sideways play to the point that the keys can rub on each other and 1 key had a bit of plastic or something stuck under it making an odd noise. Did like the more porus finish though as I tend to get greasy fingers when playing for a while.

The Casio GP500 key action was lovely, keys felt lighter and more responsive even after trying different settings on both and while the sound was great, it is still missing that tactile vibration through the keys. Still felt like the sound was coming through speakers. It is certainly finished very nicely but I found the cabinet a little wobbly when moving it around, obviously not an issue when its in position though smile

In an ideal world I would want the GP500 keybed in the CS11 chassis with soundboard and it would be perfect but I will let everyone know which way we go smile The $1000 saving on the Kawai definitely cant be ignored either.

Last edited by aokman; 12/14/16 11:35 PM.
Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: aokman] #2594931
12/15/16 02:49 AM
12/15/16 02:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 228
C
Chris Warren Offline
Full Member
Chris Warren  Offline
Full Member
C

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 228
I tried both at length some time back, and would add a couple of points.

Whilst I'm not 100% sure, I think the keys are very slightly narrower on the Casio. I checked because whilst being very fast, it didn't quite feel right. The other element that might affect a serious player, is the tendency for some notes to be unintentionally louder when you're playing, almost as if the velocity curve is uneven.

On the plus side, I loved the bass on the Casio, definitely the best DP bass I've heard.


Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: Chris Warren] #2594934
12/15/16 03:15 AM
12/15/16 03:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,482
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,482
Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted by Chris Warren
On the plus side, I loved the bass on the Casio, definitely the best DP bass I've heard.


Chris, do you mean the bass frequencies of the acoustic piano sounds, or the tonal character of the acoustic bass/electric bass sounds?

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: Chris Warren] #2594953
12/15/16 06:25 AM
12/15/16 06:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 25
VIC, Australia
A
aokman Offline OP
Full Member
aokman  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 25
VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by Chris Warren
I tried both at length some time back, and would add a couple of points.

Whilst I'm not 100% sure, I think the keys are very slightly narrower on the Casio. I checked because whilst being very fast, it didn't quite feel right. The other element that might affect a serious player, is the tendency for some notes to be unintentionally louder when you're playing, almost as if the velocity curve is uneven.

On the plus side, I loved the bass on the Casio, definitely the best DP bass I've heard.


I did notice the key width also, wasn't sure if it was just an illusion due to the key profile or something. I asked the person in the shop and he thinks they are the same width? Only reason I noticed was because the Kawai was key rubbing due to the very small gap in 2 sections and noticed the larger gap on the Casio.

Sound wise I think they were similar in bass but the CS11 went beyond that and actually resonates through the chassis and keys with lovely feedback giving the illusion that something is actually moving inside. The CS11 went a fair bit louder I think... The Casio was backed to a wall on a wooden platform, the CS11 was sitting in the open with no backing so I expect it would get even better with the soundboard near a wall.

Last edited by aokman; 12/15/16 06:25 AM.
Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: aokman] #2594967
12/15/16 08:10 AM
12/15/16 08:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,794
Germany
JoBert Offline
1000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,794
Germany
Originally Posted by aokman
Only reason I noticed was because the Kawai was key rubbing due to the very small gap in 2 sections and noticed the larger gap on the Casio.

For what it's worth: When considering the CS11, I wouldn't make too much out of a minor unevenness of the keys of the shop piano. I'm not saying that such an unevenness should be accepted. Just saying that if you should decide for the CS11, and after it arrives at your home your CS11 happens to have such an unevenness too (which won't necessarily be the case, for example my CA97, with the same GFII action, didn't have it), then you can call a Kawai tech to fix this for you. Kawai service is generally very good, and the GFII action can be regulated by a tech to fix such issues.

Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: aokman] #2595025
12/15/16 01:00 PM
12/15/16 01:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 477
Los Angeles, CA
J
Joe Garfield Offline
Full Member
Joe Garfield  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 477
Los Angeles, CA
Also, if you can try another DP with the GFII action, it could give you a better representation. It's unfortunate to hear about issues with the Kawai action, but as said above, it can easily be fixed by a qualified technician (through Kawai service).

Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: aokman] #2595026
12/15/16 01:00 PM
12/15/16 01:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 477
Los Angeles, CA
J
Joe Garfield Offline
Full Member
Joe Garfield  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 477
Los Angeles, CA
(double post)

Last edited by Joe Garfield; 12/15/16 02:48 PM.
Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: JoBert] #2595053
12/15/16 02:25 PM
12/15/16 02:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 25
VIC, Australia
A
aokman Offline OP
Full Member
aokman  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 25
VIC, Australia
Oh definitely not going to cross it off the list as it is ahead in most other areas was just interesting to see the key quality between the 2, was just a little disappointing that Kawai didn't put more care into the alignment especially on the flagship CS11 rather than just dropping it in from another product line as is. I think if it had ever so slightly tighter tolerances in the side to side free play it would be a non issue.

They are both lovely DP's smile

Last edited by aokman; 12/15/16 02:28 PM.
Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: aokman] #2595755
12/18/16 06:48 AM
12/18/16 06:48 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 58
L
Lam Offline
Full Member
Lam  Offline
Full Member
L

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 58
This is just my personal opinion, and a lot of people may disagree.

I personally would choose the gp500 as it is the only 'hybrid' hammer based action besides the yamaha n1/2/3. Bechstein opted out on the escapement as it is a nuisance. The gp500 actually has the highest amount of key repetitions because of this decision.


The gp500 action is more advanced and robust. (I have spent a lot of time inspecting both actions in person, the kawai has rubber parts and more moving parts that could wear down while the insides of the gp500 looks and feels better built).

The action and sound of the cs11 is shared between the lower end ca67 which costs 3k aud and the vpc1 (2k). While it is very good I wouldn't expect the quality control to be higher for the cs11 which may be why there has been some quality control issues in the GFII (or it could be the population of kawai purchasers). You are only paying extra for the soundboard and aesthetics in the cs11.

Do try to negotiate the costs of the piano you are buying. scmusic have the gp500 for 6.3k +delivery and pianoworld.com.au have the kawai for 5.6k. Hopefully it drops soon for christmas. Ask for price matches or better yet a straight 20% off RRP.

At the end of the day, the piano will choose you not you choosing the piano smile

Last edited by lamadoo; 12/18/16 07:41 AM.
Re: Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500? [Re: aokman] #2595969
12/18/16 08:36 PM
12/18/16 08:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 25
VIC, Australia
A
aokman Offline OP
Full Member
aokman  Offline OP
Full Member
A

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 25
VIC, Australia
Thanks for the reply smile I do agree the action is better on the Casio for sure and feels more quality. That said though the CS11 offers fantastic sound due to the larger cabinet and soundboard system with transducer. Unfortunately he Casio lacks in this area as I never really feel the tactile vibrations of the sound through the keybed. Not sure if it's just the environments I have tried them in or not?

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Piano World 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Petrof
(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
ad
Jazz Piano Online
Jazz Piano Lessons Online

New Topics - Multiple Forums
Comparing DP to acoustic, muffled/metallic sound etc...
by Artur Gajewski. 01/16/19 01:27 AM
Need Roland HP170 service manual/schematic
by btsui. 01/15/19 11:15 PM
Discord Online Jamming Central server looking for pianists
by Tyrone Slothrop. 01/15/19 11:02 PM
NU1X white noise?
by Eienkei. 01/15/19 10:51 PM
What keyboard should I get???
by jbear876. 01/15/19 08:42 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics189,594
Posts2,782,186
Members92,114
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2