Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai CS11 vs Casio GP500?

Hi All,

Glad to be a part of the forums and hello

Wanted to get everyone's opinions on what would be the best choice between the Kawai CS11 and Casio GP500. I know you really need to play them for sure, problem is I am getting this as a surprise present for the mrs who is reasonably advanced on the piano and mentioned these 2 at the top of her list. I am learning now also and want something to with plenty of room to grow.

The main issues I have noted between the 2 is if escapement simulation is a good idea or not (Kawai has it, Casio doesn't). I am sure both are good quality but seems Kawai has a few issues that come up with the keys as they get some use on them but haven't heard a peep from Casio but that could be because no one has brought them. Another surprising thing was to see the 23KG weight difference between them.

I will be checking them both out in store obviously but wanted to get some experienced opinions from people on here if possible as I want it to be a surprise. I have already checked out the Kawai CS11 and it sounded amazing but reading about some of the Casio's features were also impressive in different ways.

Price wise:

Kawai CS11 - $5600 AUD
Casio GP500 - $6600 AUD

thanks

I wouldn't hesitate to get the Kawai (I'm getting one this weekend, actually - CAx7 or CS1x). I also read about the issues people are having with the CA97 action. Kawai has been making some version of that action for a long time - it's really not that different, mechanically, from the wood actions of the older pianos. So my guess is that there is/was an affected production run, and/or maybe we just happen to be reading about the small handful of 'imperfect' actions out of the many.

Kawai's customer service is wonderful. I had an issue with a new MP10 and they had a tech over to my house in a couple of days to fix it.

I can't say much about the Casio since I haven't seen or tried it. I'm sure I've read the same stuff as you - if you hadn't read about the issues with the CA97, would you still be trying to make this decision?

Kawai's GFII with the triple sensor, letoff, and improved sensor timing is pretty phenomenal. I personally get hung up on the escapement of some stiffer or sticker actions in the conservatory where I take lessons, so I really welcome Kawai's letoff simulation, and would be disappointed playing anything without it (since I have it on the MP10 as well).

Thanks for the reply!

I don't have an issue going either way to be honest quality wise but its never nice reading about issues with the key bed quality. That said it wouldn't stand in my way of getting one...

Probably the biggest thing I got hung up on was having a DP with escapement or having one without as opinions seem to be split down the middle between the 2. That said I think the quality of the CS11 will be superior especially given its hefty 100KG weight (and the $1000 saving - on special) but I did like some of the other settings on the Casio such as the scene setting and concert play not to mention the 3 piano samples it comes with.

Do not buy any of them until you will play. Both are good, however they are entirely different. So unless you want to make someone unhappy, go to the shop for test play and never ever buy the piano for the pianist without the player agreeing on particular model,

aokman, welcome to the forum.

I agree with kapelli, and would strongly advise that you involve your wife in the decision-making process - especially if she is already a proficient pianist. I appreciate that this may dampen the surprise somewhat, but it can still be a memorable occasion. Perhaps take her out for lunch and plan the restaurant to be within walking distance of the piano dealer. Visit the store before eating, playing the instruments thoroughly, then go for lunch and discuss what you aspects of each piano you enjoyed. Finally, after the meal, return to the piano store for another round of play-testing before making your joint decision.

If I was in your position, this would probably be my plan of action...although my wife may question why I was even considering an instrument other than Kawai.

Best of luck!

Cheers,
James
x

I have the Casio. I tried both (as well as others) and preferred the Casio even at the higher price point. I love it and it currently gets more use than my acoustic. Both were very good though and there will be others who prefer the Kawai, Roland or Yamaha. It is very much down to individual preference.

I would definitely agree she has to try them especially since she is advanced she might have a strong preference and you don't want her every time she sits down at the piano to regret not having chosen herself. Now you say the two are at the top of the list, so she might have already tried them, but it's still worth having a second more focused go. I like Kawai James suggestion, in my experience that still counts as a surprise, even though the surprise is not on the exact day of the birthday. If you really want it to be a surprise on the correct day, you could still plan lunch next to the piano store and then happen to pass in front and suggest you go in, since you're curious what they sound like or something.

In terms of comparison, I would say the action is very different but both great, casio being lighter than the kawai. At this level preference is very personal. Some say that the escapement simulation helps with added tactile feedback, for me it wasn't very important, I enjoyed playing on the Casio just as much maybe slightly more as I found the Kawai a bit heavy. And the Casio is ridiculously fast, have her try some trills next time. Also Casio lets you view the fake hammer set up, I think it looks nice, but you might find it gimmicky. But personally, I felt the CS11 had a much better, fuller more realistic sound than the Casio, so I went with Kawai in the end (the CA97 but I thought CS11 sound was even better).

In terms of difference in weight, the CS11 is slightly heavier than most high end DPs (Roland LX17, Yamaha 585, casio 500, etc...) I think it's down to the soundboard and the fact the cabinet is based on their acoustic pianos. Maybe it helps with the sound, but I would definitely not say the casio is too light, they are both heavy DPs and ultimately what matters is how they sound & feel to you.

As many people here have said, she really needs to try out all of the available pianos in the price range you've set up, so why not buy here a gorgeous Christmas card, the inside of which reads "My darling, music is as central to your soul as my love for you. To honor you, I am giving you your choice of ..." and so on. But don't forget to include Roland and Yamaha for her choices. While I'm particular to Kawai, I know that they also make great digital pianos.

Presenting such a truly wonderful gift to your beloved might also have unforeseen benefits for you. You might not have to wash dishes until February.

+1 !!!!!!

That's especially true if she's judging the actions by what she can find on the Internet.

Verbal descriptions are very poor at expressing the difference in _feel_, between two DP's.

Much better to test-play, with the volume at realistic levels, and being willing to experiment with the "Touch" setting in the menu.

Bring headphones. Even for stuff in your price range (which has good speakers and amps), it's worth hearing what they sound like "straight to the ears".

Kawai James: nice plan! Also, maybe the most helpful comment of all time!

Thanks for the comments everyone, ended up taking her past the shop today and we both tried the CS11 and GP500. A little closer to a decision but we are both torn between them hahaha.

The Kawai CS11 cabinet quality is superior, feels more premium and the soundboard really does give that extra realism that is sadly lacking from the Casio with vibrations and resonance coming through the housing and keys especially in the lower end, not to mention it wasn't even backed to a wall compared to the Casio... The keys were divisive though, I am learning on a Kawaii upright when having lessons and it does feel similar with a heavyish action but is definitely heavier than the Casio and the key quality was a bit of a let down to be honest. Quite a bit of sideways play to the point that the keys can rub on each other and 1 key had a bit of plastic or something stuck under it making an odd noise. Did like the more porus finish though as I tend to get greasy fingers when playing for a while.

The Casio GP500 key action was lovely, keys felt lighter and more responsive even after trying different settings on both and while the sound was great, it is still missing that tactile vibration through the keys. Still felt like the sound was coming through speakers. It is certainly finished very nicely but I found the cabinet a little wobbly when moving it around, obviously not an issue when its in position though

In an ideal world I would want the GP500 keybed in the CS11 chassis with soundboard and it would be perfect but I will let everyone know which way we go The $1000 saving on the Kawai definitely cant be ignored either.

I tried both at length some time back, and would add a couple of points.

Whilst I'm not 100% sure, I think the keys are very slightly narrower on the Casio. I checked because whilst being very fast, it didn't quite feel right. The other element that might affect a serious player, is the tendency for some notes to be unintentionally louder when you're playing, almost as if the velocity curve is uneven.

On the plus side, I loved the bass on the Casio, definitely the best DP bass I've heard.

Chris, do you mean the bass frequencies of the acoustic piano sounds, or the tonal character of the acoustic bass/electric bass sounds?

James
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I did notice the key width also, wasn't sure if it was just an illusion due to the key profile or something. I asked the person in the shop and he thinks they are the same width? Only reason I noticed was because the Kawai was key rubbing due to the very small gap in 2 sections and noticed the larger gap on the Casio.

Sound wise I think they were similar in bass but the CS11 went beyond that and actually resonates through the chassis and keys with lovely feedback giving the illusion that something is actually moving inside. The CS11 went a fair bit louder I think... The Casio was backed to a wall on a wooden platform, the CS11 was sitting in the open with no backing so I expect it would get even better with the soundboard near a wall.

For what it's worth: When considering the CS11, I wouldn't make too much out of a minor unevenness of the keys of the shop piano. I'm not saying that such an unevenness should be accepted. Just saying that if you should decide for the CS11, and after it arrives at your home your CS11 happens to have such an unevenness too (which won't necessarily be the case, for example my CA97, with the same GFII action, didn't have it), then you can call a Kawai tech to fix this for you. Kawai service is generally very good, and the GFII action can be regulated by a tech to fix such issues.

Also, if you can try another DP with the GFII action, it could give you a better representation. It's unfortunate to hear about issues with the Kawai action, but as said above, it can easily be fixed by a qualified technician (through Kawai service).

(double post)

Oh definitely not going to cross it off the list as it is ahead in most other areas was just interesting to see the key quality between the 2, was just a little disappointing that Kawai didn't put more care into the alignment especially on the flagship CS11 rather than just dropping it in from another product line as is. I think if it had ever so slightly tighter tolerances in the side to side free play it would be a non issue.

They are both lovely DP's

This is just my personal opinion, and a lot of people may disagree.

I personally would choose the gp500 as it is the only 'hybrid' hammer based action besides the yamaha n1/2/3. Bechstein opted out on the escapement as it is a nuisance. The gp500 actually has the highest amount of key repetitions because of this decision.


The gp500 action is more advanced and robust. (I have spent a lot of time inspecting both actions in person, the kawai has rubber parts and more moving parts that could wear down while the insides of the gp500 looks and feels better built).

The action and sound of the cs11 is shared between the lower end ca67 which costs 3k aud and the vpc1 (2k). While it is very good I wouldn't expect the quality control to be higher for the cs11 which may be why there has been some quality control issues in the GFII (or it could be the population of kawai purchasers). You are only paying extra for the soundboard and aesthetics in the cs11.

Do try to negotiate the costs of the piano you are buying. scmusic have the gp500 for 6.3k +delivery and pianoworld.com.au have the kawai for 5.6k. Hopefully it drops soon for christmas. Ask for price matches or better yet a straight 20% off RRP.

At the end of the day, the piano will choose you not you choosing the piano

Thanks for the reply I do agree the action is better on the Casio for sure and feels more quality. That said though the CS11 offers fantastic sound due to the larger cabinet and soundboard system with transducer. Unfortunately he Casio lacks in this area as I never really feel the tactile vibrations of the sound through the keybed. Not sure if it's just the environments I have tried them in or not?