Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
53 registered members (AlphaBravoCharlie, Andz, Boboulus, Animisha, Babboz, CharlesXX, Charles Cohen, AndrewJCW, AWilley, 6 invisible), 1,294 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Finally, after 3.5 years, I've memorize a tune #2594042
12/12/16 02:05 AM
12/12/16 02:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 430
AZ, USA
Tuneless Offline OP
Full Member
Tuneless  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 430
AZ, USA
I gave up on piano 30+years ago because I could not memorize a relatively simple tune. Playing by reading the sheet music was the eventual solution I came up with. But this has been sort of limiting in playing with feeling and at appropriate tempo.

Someone mentioned on these forums to start with a piece that you have not played by reading the sheet music a lot. So, I grabbed something that I had only dabbled with for a few minutes. Turned out to be a great choice. It was a lead sheet, and only had an 'A' part. So, there wasn't a lot to memorize. But it has taken months to do.

But here's the great thing I'm discovering. I am getting a little help from audiation, and the amount of help I'm getting from that seems to be growing with time. I'm really excited about this, because it is something I feel can lead eventually to playing by ear, and certainly as it grows, it is going to make the process of memorizing a piece a lot easier. It certainly has been tough to memorize. I had to make every conceivable error multiple times. The tune is/was Deep Purple.

So, my next piece is pretty close to being memorized, and this one is NOT easy (tho it is easy piano). It is not a lead sheet, so plenty for the left had to do. It has a pattern of A,B,A,B,B,C,A,B,B. I've now played it thru with minor mistakes but without referring back to the sheet music. This one is Stormy Weather. I think this is coming together so well because I like it so much I have really played it a lot.

Maybe I'll have to change my screen name.


Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano yet but getting there.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Finally, after 3.5 years, I've memorize a tune [Re: Tuneless] #2594047
12/12/16 02:43 AM
12/12/16 02:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,460
Spain
A
Albunea Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Albunea  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,460
Spain
Originally Posted by Tuneless

Maybe I'll have to change my screen name.


laugh laugh laugh

Cute story. smile

Re: Finally, after 3.5 years, I've memorize a tune [Re: Tuneless] #2594060
12/12/16 04:58 AM
12/12/16 04:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,511
Australia
E
earlofmar Online content
3000 Post Club Member
earlofmar  Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
E

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,511
Australia
congratulations on your progress. I have a reasonable memory and until I started piano I assumed everyone had at least an average memory like mine. It came as a complete shock when first I heard some have difficulty remembering pieces. Perhaps like many other things it will be a skill you can nurture.


Following Trying to follow the Ling Ling 40 hour method

Kawai K8 & Kawai Novus NV10


13x[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Finally, after 3.5 years, I've memorize a tune [Re: Tuneless] #2594074
12/12/16 08:44 AM
12/12/16 08:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 885
Tempe, Arizona
AZ_Astro Offline
500 Post Club Member
AZ_Astro  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 885
Tempe, Arizona
Some people apparently can remember the written notes. Others the melody (by ear). Others the visual orientation of the notes being played as they are being played. Memorization is multi-faceted and all can be helpful.





Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory Am D, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.
[Linked Image]
Re: Finally, after 3.5 years, I've memorize a tune [Re: Tuneless] #2594148
12/12/16 12:49 PM
12/12/16 12:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,042
W
Whizbang Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Whizbang  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
W

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,042
Originally Posted by Tuneless
So, I grabbed something that I had only dabbled with for a few minutes. Turned out to be a great choice. It was a lead sheet, and only had an 'A' part. So, there wasn't a lot to memorize. But it has taken months to do.


Congratulations!

My teacher says that music memorization is like a muscle in that it gets better the more you exercise it. If you're up to it, you might put that to the test and report back.


Whizbang
amateur ragtime pianist
https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeschala
Re: Finally, after 3.5 years, I've memorize a tune [Re: Tuneless] #2594159
12/12/16 01:11 PM
12/12/16 01:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,965
Bulgaria
PhilipInChina Online content
3000 Post Club Member
PhilipInChina  Online Content
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,965
Bulgaria
The first tune that I memorised, I don't remember what it was, was when I was playing, looked up at the score and realised that the book was open at a totally different page. Suddenly I could fly.

One amusing story is about somebody who came to my apartment. I was playing something from memory and had the book open at a different page. He made a great show of looking at the score and evidently singing the tune from it. The problem was he was singing what I had played, not what was written.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Finally, after 3.5 years, I've memorize a tune [Re: Tuneless] #2594167
12/12/16 01:31 PM
12/12/16 01:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 430
AZ, USA
Tuneless Offline OP
Full Member
Tuneless  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 430
AZ, USA
I'm going to go full steam ahead on this. I see this as a major step forward in my piano playing and musical ability. I feel like I'm over some kind of hurtle. And I'm going to be replaying these memorized tunes regularly to keep from forgetting them.


Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano yet but getting there.
I'm technically very capable. I love my piano and love tinkering with it.
Re: Finally, after 3.5 years, I've memorize a tune [Re: Tuneless] #2594180
12/12/16 02:10 PM
12/12/16 02:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 110
Oklahoma
T
Theory Grl Offline
Full Member
Theory Grl  Offline
Full Member
T

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 110
Oklahoma
Tuneless,
Congratulation on your progress. It always urges us to press on when we see that we can do it! I believe people have various methods of memorization when it comes to playing the piano. The brain is a fascinating thing, and what works for some, wouldn't work for the next person. As for me, I replay everything I have memorized (about 20 pieces) at least once or twice a week, and sometimes more often. I do this because I like to reassure myself that I haven't forgotten them, and I can still play them correctly at tempo. I usually start memorizing a new piece once I can play through it slowly from the score without mistakes. Some of this just happens while practicing without ever trying to remember it. Then there's forced memory where I deliberately memorize the letter name in relation to their location on the keyboard. I normally have to resort to this technique when there's a more difficult passage. Letter names of notes don't seem to help some people, but I always associate them to their location on the keyboard. Of course it depends on the octave you're playing in, but that just seems to come naturally. Some members have stated that you have to memorize intervals and not letter name or individual notes. For me, memorizing intervals also seems to come naturally. Somehow it just all comes together with practice. I seldom ever work at memorizing the left hand. I don't really know why, but it just goes where it needs to go. All this being said, I'm not an advanced player. Still working on new intermediate classical pieces. Any comments from others on their method of memorization would be welcome. I'm always open to finding better and innovative ways to accomplish my purpose.

Re: Finally, after 3.5 years, I've memorize a tune [Re: Tuneless] #2594253
12/12/16 06:15 PM
12/12/16 06:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 247
Sweden
G
ghosthand Offline
Full Member
ghosthand  Offline
Full Member
G

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 247
Sweden
I could not possibly memorize anything until recently. This has been a mystery to me, as I am known to have an excellent memory in many other situations - I can easily memorize written text, for instance. But memorizing pieces has been too difficult, like there was a link missing somewhere. It always ended with me giving up and focusing on playing instead ... Still I think I play better when I have the scores.

But recently I found the trick that worked for ME. (Yes, we all have to find our own individual method.) I learn backwards! So I start by reading the very last note/chord in the piece. Look at it, and as I have been able to read notes since 1972 or something like that, I automatically associate the note with the key on the piano. I close my eyes and imagine the note in my "inner music sheet", I also imagine the feeling of playing it.
Then I open my eyes and read the second last note/chord PLUS the last one, imagine the transition between them. (This is what we call mental playing.) I close my eyes and see the inner music sheet and play the sequence mentally.

Then I proceed with the third last note, adding what comes next, play them mentally with my eyes closed, and so on! The procedure is harder to describe than to do ... The real trick is that the last notes in the sequence will be memorized first and repeated the most, so the sequence becomes more and more familiar the closer to the end you get.
Quite soon I can have a whole page memorized for my right hand, and I don't even have to play it first, I can run it all in my head a couple of times ... and the cool thing is that I then can go to the piano and play it for real. The only thing is that I have to play it very slowly at first, as I need to think. And then the fingering turns out to be complicated - well, then I must start working with the score and the pencil as usual, but the memorization is done, nevertheless.
Then I try to do the same with my left hand, which often is much less work.

To me, this is the most convenient way, because if I really can "see" the notes in my inner mind, I will not get lost. But of course this must be carefully maintained. I must repeat the memorized piece every day - I suppose it will eventually get stuck for ever, but I am not there yet. (It is not totally necessary to repeat it on the piano, though - playing it just mentally works too, and this is also convenient as I can do it while I am out walking my dog or when I'm in my bed ...)

So, this turned out to work for me. The most important thing was to prove to myself that I really COULD memorize - I am sure it will get more and more easy now, as I am getting familiar with the process. Still I have big difficulties "playing" mentally with two hands. I can only imagine one hand at a time. But maybe that is not too bad. When you are too dependent on muscle memory, it is often impossible to play with just one hand upon request, as your hands have become dependent on each other. So when you make a mistake with one hand, you lose it with the other one as well, and there you are, with a stop you cannot recover from ... and then you must, most embarrassingly, start over from the beginning again ...

Re: Finally, after 3.5 years, I've memorize a tune [Re: Tuneless] #2594262
12/12/16 06:47 PM
12/12/16 06:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 110
Oklahoma
T
Theory Grl Offline
Full Member
Theory Grl  Offline
Full Member
T

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 110
Oklahoma
Very interesting method!

Re: Finally, after 3.5 years, I've memorize a tune [Re: ghosthand] #2594409
12/13/16 08:25 AM
12/13/16 08:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,091
Orig. land of Svear&Götar
R
RaggedKeyPresser Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RaggedKeyPresser  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,091
Orig. land of Svear&Götar
Originally Posted by ghosthand
I could not possibly memorize anything until recently. This has been a mystery to me, as I am known to have an excellent memory in many other situations - I can easily memorize written text, for instance. But memorizing pieces has been too difficult, like there was a link missing somewhere. It always ended with me giving up and focusing on playing instead ... Still I think I play better when I have the scores.

But recently I found the trick that worked for ME. (Yes, we all have to find our own individual method.) I learn backwards! So I start by reading the very last note/chord in the piece. Look at it, and as I have been able to read notes since 1972 or something like that, I automatically associate the note with the key on the piano. I close my eyes and imagine the note in my "inner music sheet", I also imagine the feeling of playing it.
Then I open my eyes and read the second last note/chord PLUS the last one, imagine the transition between them. (This is what we call mental playing.) I close my eyes and see the inner music sheet and play the sequence mentally.

Then I proceed with the third last note, adding what comes next, play them mentally with my eyes closed, and so on! The procedure is harder to describe than to do ... The real trick is that the last notes in the sequence will be memorized first and repeated the most, so the sequence becomes more and more familiar the closer to the end you get.
Quite soon I can have a whole page memorized for my right hand, and I don't even have to play it first, I can run it all in my head a couple of times ... and the cool thing is that I then can go to the piano and play it for real. The only thing is that I have to play it very slowly at first, as I need to think. And then the fingering turns out to be complicated - well, then I must start working with the score and the pencil as usual, but the memorization is done, nevertheless.
Then I try to do the same with my left hand, which often is much less work.

To me, this is the most convenient way, because if I really can "see" the notes in my inner mind, I will not get lost. But of course this must be carefully maintained. I must repeat the memorized piece every day - I suppose it will eventually get stuck for ever, but I am not there yet. (It is not totally necessary to repeat it on the piano, though - playing it just mentally works too, and this is also convenient as I can do it while I am out walking my dog or when I'm in my bed ...)

So, this turned out to work for me. The most important thing was to prove to myself that I really COULD memorize - I am sure it will get more and more easy now, as I am getting familiar with the process. Still I have big difficulties "playing" mentally with two hands. I can only imagine one hand at a time. But maybe that is not too bad. When you are too dependent on muscle memory, it is often impossible to play with just one hand upon request, as your hands have become dependent on each other. So when you make a mistake with one hand, you lose it with the other one as well, and there you are, with a stop you cannot recover from ... and then you must, most embarrassingly, start over from the beginning again ...


Less Paul not only memorized a song arraignment backwards, but also learned how to actually play it backwards from end to the beginning as well, and showed it to Chet Atkins who was amused and learned to play an arraignment in this manner also.


Czerny's Piano School Vol. 1. Reviewing basics/ear training/analysis in interesting exercises.
Opus 599. Now at #77 and giving it a break.
Re: Finally, after 3.5 years, I've memorize a tune [Re: RaggedKeyPresser] #2594411
12/13/16 08:48 AM
12/13/16 08:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,885
Philadelphia, PA
J
jdw Offline
1000 Post Club Member
jdw  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,885
Philadelphia, PA
Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser



Less Paul not only memorized a song arraignment ...


I guess this was for the really awful songs. smile


1989 Baldwin R
Currently working on:​
Schubert, Op. 90 no. 2
Sinding, Frühlingsrauschen (Rustle of Spring)
Beethoven, Sonata no. 14 in C# minor (Moonlight)
Re: Finally, after 3.5 years, I've memorize a tune [Re: Tuneless] #2595280
12/16/16 11:59 AM
12/16/16 11:59 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 759
New Orleans, LA
I
Isabelle1949 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Isabelle1949  Offline
500 Post Club Member
I

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 759
New Orleans, LA
I have forgotten everything I learned to play because I have been 99% away from the piano in the last 13 years. Trying, half heartedly, to get something back, but I don't think it will happen. Thought about hypnosis, but most of it is bull I think.


Always working to improve "Chopsticks". I'll never give up on it.

Moderated by  BB Player 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Another Scales Question - Jazz Scales
by oneilt130. 10/21/19 10:41 PM
Yamaha P125 Audio Recording ???
by Pianoworldstage. 10/21/19 09:31 PM
New Casio hybrid piano
by MacMacMac. 10/21/19 05:05 PM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics194,657
Posts2,881,884
Members94,725
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1