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It's one of mine too.

Now THAT'S my idea of garbage.

And I have no problem saying it.


(..."pretty movement of the upper body thing"...can't stop LOL...)

I think that one is good! (But I'm not sure, of course). We can do it slower.

I had not read the whole thread nor visited their site (still haven't). I don't like "The Only Russian School" message. Anyhow, maybe because of it we are attacking it more than other piano sites?

Probably, potential customers should ask themselves "What amount of time am I going to devote to watching videos every day?" If they can be the whole day learning with videos, it might be cheap. I am not like that myself.

I'm in a position where in some ways I'm probably fairly advanced, but because initially as a child I self-taught for years, I've had a need to revamp the physical end of my playing through fundamental things that support everything. At this point I've had a fair amount of time with good teaching, and usually when I look at a site I can get some idea. I've also been in a position some years ago when I was not yet able to do so, because I didn't have that kind of experience behind me. Until you have something to contrast it with, you can't really tell for sure. It may simply be better than something worse you've worked with.

In this case I can't tell, because what is visible publicly for free is not a sample of the actual teaching. That was established today. It is a way of selling the product by giving highlights that seem good, but one can't tell. When I thought those were actual lessons (samples of), that would have kept me away. Any on-line material I have seen other than this usually allows students to try some sample lessons so that you can get a feel for how the teaching goes. This one is the exception. With the difference of the Cdn dollar, that trial would come to over $50 and that is just too much.

In regards to the physical exercises - the vigourous arm whirling and such - I saw those some years ago - I'm not comfortable with them. The one I had seen started with some jerky snapping open and shut of the hands. In contrast, I have followed some of Yehudi Menuhin's "6 Lessons for the Violin" which was originally aired on BBC I think, and the first of the "6 lessons" focuses on the body before every touching the instrument. He has arm circles of a similar nature in there, but it is quite different, done with a loose flexible body, done loosely, and with the same flow of the whole body working together that we want in playing (any) instrument itself. I do not get that feeling here, and not being young I could injure myself.

In all fairness, there's 8:46 of warm-up in the video ahead of this point, and just before, she tells beginners not to try to do it as fast as she does.

In equal fairness there is no reason for rotations at that speed, ever, for piano.

I was unable to move that way at all for a couple years and had to slowly get movement back. There is absolutely zero impact on my ability to play the piano, but I can't comfortably swim the crawl, which I used to do literally for miles with no discomfort.

I can just imagine saying to my 80 year-old student, forget about playing the piano unless you can move like this young lady.

Listen to the first 13 seconds:

Nocturne

This is just horrible, and if I played this section for a student this way, I'd immediately apologize for totally screwing it up, and I'd fix it, on the spot, in a lesson.

The RH trill is too slow, the LH then falters, the pedal is poor, then when she gets to the high F#, she mis-times the pedal on the low B so that it abruptly stops. She lifted the toe late.

Correct pedal

You can instantly find this played by Horowitz, Pollini, Richter, Rubinstein, Arrau, etc. to hear what it SHOULD sound like, and this particular passage is not especially advanced or difficult.

As for the physical playing of it, there are simply much better sources. All that hand waving she does so seriously impacts the musical effect that it is just horrible.

Russian school?

I don't THINK so...

I appreciate that this category of the forum was an insensitive place to post about online lessons (I was only responding to what had inadvertently been posted here by someone else.) And I don't mean to detract in any way from the value of private one-on-one lessons with a teacher who is a good fit for the student.

But, I'm 60 years old, and for me the spinning-arm exercise (preceded by the others she demonstrates) does seem to help circulation to my hands (which are otherwise always cold.) I don't understand why this is being characterized as "stupid" or "dangerous" especially when the instructor clearly states that nothing should be done that causes discomfort.



The book used in the beginners' course is called The Russian School of Piano Playing by A. Nikolaev. The preface to the English edition states:

"The Russian School of Piano Playing is the piano method officially recommended for use in Children's Music Schools throughout the Soviet Union today. It represents the work of a number of distinguished teachers and pianists, and is generally considered to be one of the most systematic and successful piano methods ever to be produced.

"Its success stems partially from the meticulous grading of pieces, and the perfectly timed introduction of every aspect of technique that the beginner is likely to require in the first few years. However, the method's overriding merit lies in its completely musical approach, which results in the pupil gaining an appreciation of musical colour and characterisation and a true sense of musical feeling."

It's hard for me to imagine that this book, and what is stated in its preface, are made up out of whole cloth. I'm not here to argue the relative merits of online verses private teachers. I'm only a beginning student, so I know my opinion doesn't count for much, but I think it's fair to say that there are pros and cons to both types of instruction, and I think both types of instructors need to treat each other with respect, and recognize that what works well for some students might not work as well for others.

Smmcroberts - If an exercise book is written in Russia and in Russian, then it is a Russian exercise book; If written in Holland then it is a Dutch exercise book, etc. That is not being disputed. It is not meant literally. But there is a hype we see from time to time which puts on the one side the idea of secret special knowledge that is dubbed as Russian --- and it is juxtaposed by a fictitious stereotype of "other" (non-Russian, Western?) teaching which this "Russian" school is supposed to substitute. The things represented as "Russian", supposedly absent in the stereotyped Western education, exist in the teaching of many good teachers everywhere in the world. This special exclusive thing being called Russian as a special exclusive thing - that is what is being said does not exist. Does this make sense?


by "both types of instruction" can I assume that you mean "on-line" versus "in-studio"? If so, I don't think the present discussion as about that.

The Soviet Union is yesterday, gone about a quarter century. So, the book is quite old. What might it be missing? Perhaps the Taubman ideas?

When I look at the lady play and then watch some of the famous Soviet pianists, there is nothing I see or hear that links them together.

Nothing is as monolithic as it seems, or claims to be.

Even within the Taubman camp there are dissenting ideas. Anything that's been around for 50+ years, with as many participants with different backgrounds, is bound to have dissension.

After having a read of the website, I'm tempted to have a try for a month at least and see how it goes.

It's an older thread, but wanted to add my opinion.

I signed up for Piano Career Academy for a period of time a few years ago. I eventually decided I needed something more interactive and searched for a private teacher. I am, however, grateful to Ilinca Vartic for giving me an idea of what piano lessons could be. Without her example I doubt I would have known what to look for in a good private teacher.

I'm in my early 60's. I've been interested in music and in piano since childhood. My family wasn't knowledgeable about music and experiences with teachers were very mixed. Ironically, my worst teacher was the most highly credentialed (and most expensive).

My frustration with finding a good teacher (after restarting as an adult) led me to Ilinca Vartic's site. I learned about how to approach a new piece, practice strategies, playing without tension, and possibilities of different tone with changes of touch and physical motion, and ranges of interpretation of individual piece. For me it was a generous sharing of things I'd suspected but not had access to for most of my life--a wide door open, finally, to me. This young woman additionally shared her stories of health problems, injuries, dealing with disappointments, setbacks, and successes in her music career. I found her genuine, insightful, and very conscientious in her tutorials and answers to questions of her online students.

Ultimately I decided I needed a good private teacher. But what I gained from Piano Career Academy was invaluable.

Yes, there's a subscription fee. Do you give free lessons? Read a bit about Moldova and imagine their economic recession and get some perspective.

Please don't be so easily negative and dismissive. I don't understand this attitude. Yes, the teachers who post on PWF are all master teachers, no doubt, but regular people trying to find good instruction can take lots of wrong turns. There's nothing negative about PCA. I so much appreciate Ilinca Vartic's generosity to share her knowledge with a wider audience and wish her all the best.

I've been considering joining Piano Career Academy since I found out about it, but my doubts eventually lead me to postpone and postpone joining in.

I think there is something that should be noted about Piano Career Academy that I don't think can be found in the thread nor in the website, this is the list of video the site has: http://www.pianocareer.com/holistic-piano-playing/piano-career-academy-tutorials/.

I'm a piano beginner with no more than a few months of practice, but with some other musical background (violin). My former teacher used the very same book that Piano Career Academy but decided not to start me at the very start of the book, and instead we went through some Minuets from Bach (Dm, G) and Beethoven Sonatina in G. There does seem to be a lot of content in the former lessons that I do not know, but the fact that one of the pieces my former teacher gave me is in the lesson 86 makes me think twice before joining the site and follow her lessons. On the other hand, the list of pieces seem interesting and the content seems to be extensive.

I'm considering either this site or artistworks with christie peery. I haven't made my mind yet.

I'm a piano intermediate, not a piano beginner. I have recently joined PCA and started at lesson 1 because I want to learn the movement Ilinca teaches, and I started at the beginning so (a) I don't miss anything and (b) I get lots of reinforcement to really ingrain the quality of movement(s).

I'm 64 with about 18 months of private lessons from two teachers and a few months 20 years ago. It wasn't until I signed up for the initial three-month course with PCA that I realized how defective my training was. for me, the benefits far outweigh having a teacher sitting at my side. The instruction is so good I have relatively few questions. And those questions I can get answered if I want to.

Piano Career Academy has been a great inspiration to me for the last 3 months. I was at a solid intermediate level when I was younger but have gone back into the late beginner scales/ arpeggios and music programs which have given me some good basic technique work and encouraged me greatly. I have also recently taken some private lessons to get some feedback and reassure me that I am on the right track. My teacher also has been very impressed with what Ilinca has been teaching me.