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Joined: Dec 2016
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OP
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The other day, I turned on my Disklavier and it came up with the usual "Insert Disk!" displayed on the LCD and, within a few seconds, shut down and now won't startup. I checked the 3 fuses in the power supply and they are good. I notice a faint relay click in the controller when switching the upper power button (not the "Mains" switch) from on to off but no signs of life.
I read in another forum about a similar problem with a MX100B model that was traced to the 20V regulator where the user (chrigi) placed a Zener diode in series with the input to this regulator which resolved his problem.
Does anyone have some troubleshooting steps I might try? E.g. disconnecting the pedal solenoids and seeing it starts up?
I'd appreciate any advice very much.
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Joined: May 2004
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Welcome to PianoWorld! I think you need to re-post your question in the Digital Piano forum -- this forum is for piano made out of wood and metal, with actual vibrating strings.
Dorrie Bell retired piano technician Boston, MA
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A Disklavier is a Yamaha acoustic piano with an electronic player.
Perhaps your local Yamaha dealer can help you. If it is something that can be fixed by some sort of reset, you may be able to do it yourself, but otherwise you may need someone to repair it for you. We have to say that for liability's sake.
Semipro Tech
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Thanks,BDB -- sorry for my ignorance -- I saw "diode" and "solenoids," and my eyes glazed over --
Dorrie Bell retired piano technician Boston, MA
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Thank you for your reply. The Yamaha Disklavier MX100II is indeed a "real" piano with vibrating strings. I do believe this is the correct forum for this post as there have been others relating to Yamaha Disklavier models here.
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Joined: Dec 2016
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I've actually had some experience working on my Disklavier piano, which I've owned, along with other Yamaha pianos, for many years. I am an electrical engineer and the last repair I performed on my MX100II was replacing the LCD display.
It is unfortunate that a fine acoustic upright piano, like the MX100II is so tightly entangled, by design, with technology that has become obsolete and there are no known alternatives for upgrading the controller. I learned, some 35 years ago, to design systems with the concept of "technology insertion" which affords future replacement of parts or system blocks with newer technology.
I will contact Yamaha by telephone tomorrow to order the schematic and parts list for the power supply.
All that I am asking in this forum is for the friendly advice of those who may have encountered a similar problem and to share their relevant experience. I am not trying to undercut professional piano technicians here and the most experienced Yamaha piano technician in my area has not experienced this problem.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 247
Full Member
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For your infomation.
power supply start up routin. main switch on controller switch on AC power relay1 on pon+ goes to low drive power relay 2 on drive power voltage out(DC100V)
connector pin number connector A 1 +20v Led power 2 .3 +8v system power 4.5.6 Gnd 7 pon+ 8 pon- 9 power switch - 10 power switch +
conector B 1.2.3 +HV DC100V drive power( caution!! high voltage.] 4 NC 6.7.8 GND
check all capacitors. liquid leak and pattern prevention.
power supply unit is end of supply.
I recommend you to join Yahoo Disklavier group
-------------------------------------- Pro-TAC tuning and repair service. pro-tac.jpn.org/ --------------------------------------
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Joined: Dec 2016
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Thank you very much Pro-TAC. I've been able to get the service manuals, including schematics and parts lists. Indeed, I suspect one or more of the electrolytic capacitors has failed even though there are no physical signs of it (e.g. bulging or seeping).
I will follow your troubleshooting advice and join the Yahoo group.
Kind regards,
Mike
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I'm going a bit off-topic with this, but it's interesting to compare old mechanical player pianos with modern electronic player systems. Some seventy or eighty year old player pianos still have working player mechanisms without ever having had any restoration. I wonder how many electronic disclavier type systems will last eighty years without some component failure.
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Very few old players work properly without restoration. Even the ones made in the 1950s have problems with leaking hoses and pneumatics.
Semipro Tech
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The documentation I got from Yamaha is not complete: the parts designations on the schematic (e.g. C13) cannot be cross referenced in the parts lists. The parts lists are indexed by the part number, not the schematic reference designations. Also, the PDF image quality of the documentation is not great.
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I found the problem: 2 electrolytic capacitors have failed: C12 and C15. They're both 100uf 6.3V.
Last edited by MikeOregon; 12/10/16 03:22 PM.
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I found the problem: 2 electrolytic capacitors have failed: C12 and C15. They're both 100uf 6.3V. Bit odd for both fail at a young age. Do you know what the voltage was at that point in the circuit? Suggest you replace them with 16 or 25 Volt caps. That won't stop them from frying if hit by a high voltage spike, but will allow for a wider working voltage range. Usually the recommendation is double the working voltage. edit: But you already know this! Sorry to preach to the choir.
Last edited by prout; 12/10/16 04:21 PM.
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I bought this MX100II brand new some 20 years ago. Actually, just one of the 2 failed but I'm going to replace both. I ordered 10 of them from DigiKey since they're only 22 cents each (but the shipping is $8).
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I bought this MX100II brand new some 20 years ago. Actually, just one of the 2 failed but I'm going to replace both. I ordered 10 of them from DigiKey since they're only 22 cents each (but the shipping is $8). IIRC, about 15 years is the nominal lifespan for aluminum electrolytic running at 50-80% of rated voltage. Many more years of life left if run at much lower voltages. (I have a 7 transistor radio from 1959 that I still use - all original parts except for volume and the battery clips. The 9 volt battery was a cylinder, not a rectangular solid.) Heat, as you know severely reduces the life of electlytics. Anyway, good that you found the culprits and are moving forward.
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Gotta say, I stand by the spirit of my original post -- at my piano-tech training course, lasting 9 months, capacitors were never mentioned -- But I _am_ glad that the OP's problem is being solved -- well done --
Dorrie Bell retired piano technician Boston, MA
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Joined: Feb 2019
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Hi, I'm new to this group. I have the same MX100II upright piano and I'm seeing symptoms similar to those with the electrolytic capacitor issues. Basically, it'd play for 2-3 mins and stop with a few fading notes. If I turn off the piano and turn it back on. The same would happen. Is it easy to diagnose and fix it myself? I am not an electrical engineer, but I do have the service manual and know kind of where those capacitors are. Thanks in advance for your response!
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Joined: Aug 2021
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Hello Guys ! My MX100II wont power up anymore. After switching in with the main power switch and with the controller power switch I only can hear one click from one of the relays on the power supply, but no controller light - nothing. Switching off with the controller power switch , only the relay click you can hear again...
Where to get schematics of the power supply or even an service manual ?
thanks for all your help.
regards ano1
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Piano
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