Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum When Did Estonia Become a "Premium" Brand?

I haven't been there yet. I plan to find out this weekend if it's still there. If they won't flat out tell me, I plan to grab the serial number at the very least.

May 11, 2004

Is this the date that Estonia became a "premium" brand or the manufacture date of the Estonia L190 that was for sale at $13,800?

My best guess is that this is the date sir lurksalot purchased his Estonia piano...but, if you'd like, I can provide here a rather accurate 'map' of the development of the brand that will explain the gradual changes.

Actually that would be rather interesting.

Sure. Here goes...

Estonia pianos of the 1990’s had much potential but were a far cry from later pianos. The instruments were completely redesigned in the late 1990’s (the 5’6 model was preceded by a 5’4 model) and significant improvements occurred to pianos under the helm of the current owner and president of the company, Julliard graduate pianist Dr. Indrek Laul.

As of the early 2000’s Estonia pianos were already very good pianos, even if still significantly different than those made nowadays.
During the summer of 2001, Dr. Laul purchased the final stake of the company, transitioning him from a majority holder to a full 100% owner. This purchase allowed his vision to be realized on a different level, taking the company to a new direction with the premium piano market in mind.

Of course, such a change does not occur overnight.

Many aspects of the redesigned pianos were completely changed over the next few years, including hammers, strings, soundboard material, hardware and more. The changes occurred at an impressive pace between the years 2001 and 2005…with each shipment of pianos introducing something new and exciting.

Just as important, in the ensuing years after Dr. Laul’s complete ownership purchase of the company, the workforce was streamlined to keep only the best and most qualified employees, resulting in a gradually increasing level of workmanship until reaching a very impressive and consistent execution of instruments.

To signify these changes, newly redesigned plates that were introduced that year started carrying the name ‘Laul Estonia’ in 2005.

Pianos made in 2004 and 2005 even before the plate change were already excellent instruments in every regard…but still there were more changes and improvements to come.
These changes were much more gradual during the manufacturing years of 2006 and 2008, but still there were some.

In 2009, the company forwarded some resources towards research and development of two new models, the model 225 (7'4) and the model 210 (6'10).
The larger pianos were redesigned as 'no compromise pianos' from the get go.

The model 225, brought different thinking to the company in regards to its ability and position in the market, with 2010 - 2012 production having greater degree of refinement than pianos made in 2006 - 2009...

However, it was the development of the latest model, the 210, that brought the most significant amount of changes.
The knowledge gained in its development flowed into the smaller pianos, particularly the model 190, with a new soundboard and ribs redesign, framework/support beam changes and considerable action modifications.

While the above is mostly a factual description of change period...the question of 'when Estonia became a 'premium' piano is more subjective.

While I feel that the changes to the model 190 in 2013/2014 led to a markedly more responsive action and a deeper, more layered tone...I feel that Estonia pianos made as early as 2004 were already fantastic instruments worthy of the description 'premium'.

But while instruments made already at that time were fantastic, those who referred to Estonia pianos as 'premium' just 10 years ago have been met with skepticism.

So how did the change in perception occurred?

While I'm became aware of the gradually increased quality of the pianos since I have had the opportunity of playing, tuning, voicing and preparing literally hundreds of Estonia pianos over the past 15 years as they arrived from the factory...most people do not have such an advantage.

Market perception, especially in regards to smaller production handcrafted instruments, may be influenced by a very small sample of pianos and often takes decades to change.

People may opine about pianos that they had seen at showrooms several years ago...and these pianos may not have been the most recent production vintage, prepared in line with the 'spirit' or intention of the manufacturer...or even be in tune.

When a more known to the masses piano, say a Steinway, is encountered in a showroom in a condition that is less than great, the response of many would be that: 'This particular piano is a bad Steinway'.

If an instrument that is less known to the masses, such as an Estonia, is encountered in a less than desirable condition the response may be to strike off the brand as 'not good'.

It is a hard step to climb even if a manufacturer's pianos are superb, and I think that in recent years Estonia had managed to climb it in the (researching) public eye through both having a stellar dealer network, many of which are service oriented...and through the introduction of the new larger models.

Naturally, those who seek higher level pianos - professionals and amateurs alike - gravitate towards larger instruments.
Pianos in the 7' size range are generally more musical than 6' or smaller pianos of the same brands.
The demands of players looking for pianos in these sizes are also higher...and so a company seriously aiming to build a high quality piano in this size range must deliver with quality and performance...and this is exactly what Estonia has done.

With the introduction of these models, many players who wanted a piano in the 7' range now had a 'no compromise' option from Estonia to compare with the best of the best...leading many to conclude that Estonia pianos are very worthy contender in this dream category of premium pianos.


I hope this helps.

For full disclosure, my company had been working with Estonia pianos and offering Estonia pianos for sale for the past 16 years.

Thank you Ori. This is very informative and helpful for me. I am currently trying to decide between a Yamaha C2X and an Estonia 168. They both are in the same price range. Both appear to be excellent (but very different) instruments. Do you happen to agree with PB's ranking of these two pianos? The Yamaha in the intermediate grade and the Estonia in the performance grade. Either would be a significant step up from my Hailun 161 (which I enjoy a great deal).

Hi Piano Math,

You're asking a question that is easy to answer from one side...but extremely hard to answer in a politically correct way without raffling any feathers.

While we get Yamaha pianos as trade ins regularly, I do not represent the company. We do work with new Kawai pianos and I think that Piano Buyer rankings of the Kawai GX2 and Yamaha C2X within the same group is logical.
Both Yamaha and Kawai are two good quality mass produced pianos. They may excel in different uses but of generally similar build quality and rather comparable.

Piano Buyer ranks the Estonia two levels above either of the two...and your question is whether I feel that Estonia's higher ranking is reasonable.

Well, I believe that yes... Estonia belongs to a completely different world of of much higher level production.
Trying to compare either of these pianos to the Estonia from any objective angle will leave them wanting. They are not comparable.

How can one compare a high level handcrafted piano, built over longer production time with design features that are costly to make, exhibiting visibly superior execution and uses parts/materials that are shared with the most expensive premium pianos on the market... to any mass produced piano built to a price point?

Having said that, being a high level instrument does not mean that the Estonia is the right piano for every person.

Subjectivity of tone is an entirely different matter. I met people who swore to me in all seriousness that their 1956 Wurlitzer spinet had an amazing tone that could rival the worlds finest pianos. It may be so, for them.

Many here will be quick to tell you...'get the piano you like'...which is a good advice.

Of course, there is more to consider than just whether one likes one piano more than another. Suitability to use, acoustics, ability to voice and more... but these issues are harder to explain over the forum...so sticking to the basic 'get the piano you like' is fine for here.

i will add to that by saying that, just as important, is: 'don't get the piano you 'don't like', even if it is at the very top of the most revered rankings'.

If you're looking for the sound of a harpsichord, the most expensive Bosendorfer in the world is likely to disappoint you.

Thanks Ori.

Ori, could you please share your insights on the evolution of the Estonia 274 (9 ft concert grand)?

I recall reading that is yet to benefit from more recent developments. How does it differ from those of the pre-Laul era?

Hi Miguel,

My 'sample size' for the Estonia concert grand is much smaller than that of the other models. This makes it harder to comment on change periods with confidence.

I may see and work on new pianos from models such as the Estonia 168, 190 or 210 every month as we carry these on the showroom floor routinely... but due to a variety of considerations the concert grand is available only per order.

The Estonia model 273 was a complete new design in the early 2000's, already within the 'Laul era'. However, it was changed a few years ago to the model 274.
As with other Estonia pianos, instruments produced in the past few years have a greater degree of refinement.
The development of the new 225 and 210 pianos really took the company to a different level.
Of course, it isn't just the modifications to design that matter, but the workmanship level, which I feel is nothing short of superb through the entire line, that gradually increased.

The last few model 274 pianos I tried were nothing short of outstanding performance pianos.

Having said the above, unless one is in the market for a concert grand (which perhaps is the case with you), I recommend to 'ignore' concert grand pianos when forming an opinion of a brand.

Concert grand pianos (and often, performing concert pianists) are looking for very different qualities of tone and touch than most people can benefit from in a home size piano and general home use.

Manufacturers often build concert grand pianos with a departure from their standard pianos, for better or worse.
At times they depart by using higher quality parts/materials and at times they depart from their entire tonal philosophy to create a more powerful, projecting instrument.

The same desirable qualities allowing a pianist to throw 'lightning bolts' to people seating in the 40th row of a concert hall are the qualities making family members run for cover (or out of the house) when the piano is played... or cause neighbors to sneak dirty looks towards the 'pianist' in apartment building elevators.

Piano makes marketing from 'up to down' (concert grand as the leading spear) may keep this tonal philosophy through the model line up with smaller instruments...trying to get similar 'tone' and reaction.
But do most people really want a piano that is designed to develop and respond to a 1000 people concert hall style of playing in their living room?

Unfortunately, superficial marketing is done through placement of pianos in concert stages or 'pop star' bands/players.
The common notion (misconception) that these marketing programs are meant to develop is: 'If its good for the professional it must be good for me'.

Unfortunately, the qualities required to perform well in large classical venues or pop concerts are opposite to tonal qualities that most people actually enjoy and use in their home playing (and certainly contrary to what young students need).

So, we as an industry, created a self distrusting machine in which people are preconditioned to get pianos that are essentially wrong for them, which they enjoy far less than they should...and which often cause students to stop playing (partly because the pianos are promoting a style of playing that is too aggressive or punchy/loud).

Trying to change these misconceptions is a bit like fighting windmills. Nowadays, people want information in headlines and three minutes...and superficial marketing programs can deliver a quick sale.
I'm under no illusion that this can easily change...
Heck, I assume that a good portion of those who started reading this post have not reached to this line because my words are too 'long winded'.

Either way, my point is (if you read it this far) that unless you really intend to purchase a concert grand you should simply 'ignore' these pianos in the line up of any company.
If you do, please consider carefully the down sides of these instruments and the fact that they often do departure from the company tonal philosophy 'other models' line up of pianos.

Of course, I have no idea about your intended use but if you're a performing pianist needing a concert grand response, a recording studio or a performing venue a concert grand is certainly a great choice.

Surprisingly, I found that some concert grand pianos can also fit tonally in some private home use...but usually when the player is an adult beginner/intermediate that enjoys the rich, deep tone of the large piano and is playing, most often, at lower overall volumes.

Totally true.

In fact, we often visit a customer's home before or at least during delivery to make sure piano is not "too big" for room.

People are sometimes astounded we recommend a smaller [and 'cheaper'] grand, but in many cases it's more than enough for a given situation.

In fact, the trick is to offer a perhaps smaller grand that is equally beautiful and still satisfies a normal customer's requirements. Yo me, this is the test of a truly great product.

Those who know the make, know that Estonia is doing exceedingly well in that department.

"smaller can be beautiful?"

Yes, it can.

Norbert

Hello Ori

Thanks for your detailed and thoughtful reply.

I certainly don't need the power and projection of a concert grand, but was under the impression that they can be played on a home environment just as softly and with as much control as their smaller siblings ... while enjoying the sonic benefits of their longer strings.

Thanks to Norbert as well for his follow-up.

Best Regards

Miguel Angel

Hi Miguel,

I don't want to be misunderstood.
My suggestion to ignore concert grand pianos when forming opinions of a brand (unless one is particularly looking for a concert grand) is a general one.

Excluding concert grands, manufacturers are after very different tonal qualities in pianos. The ideal tone for one may not be the ideal tone for another.
One good example is that some are looking for melodic, intimate tones... while others for more powerful instruments.

It has little to do with the size of the piano.
Some makers produce pianos in the 5'6 - 5'8' range that have more overwhelming/powerful tonal qualities than other pianos in the 6'6 - 7' range.
Whether a powerful tone is desirable is up to the end user.

Of course, one element of piano design may effect another. Striving for a more power may have implications on other areas of tone and touch (and I'm not going to try and explain it here as it here since the result will be a short book length).

Whether these effects are desirable or detrimental will once more depend on how the piano is used (by a professional pianist, children, adult playing for fun) and the general environment in which the piano resides.

Virtually all makers feel that concert grand pianos should have powerful qualities as they are often used in concert halls and should be able to compete with orchestras.

For companies that value qualities other than power in home size pianos, the concert grand represent a departure from their usual tonal philosophy.
For other companies, the concert grand will be an extension, or perhaps best referred to as a source of inspiration, for their smaller home size pianos.

In all, yes, concert grand pianos can be played softly and often with more control than smaller pianos
...And yes, we have customers who purchased concert grand pianos for home use (including adult amateur players with very different levels of proficiency from beginner to advanced) and are very happy with them.

In fact, some of the tone/touch trade offs found in smaller pianos who value power are not found in concert grand pianos as the physics of a very large piano allows for it.

If you do have room for a concert grand and value the tonal qualities of one...the likelihood is that you will be content with one.

My advice of ignoring concert grands when forming an opinion of a brand is meant for those who are NOT considering one.

This is particularly refreshing to read! There was an unfortunate thread a few months ago in which a pianist's observations about a piano's power were interpreted as a condemnation of it, rather than an objective assessment of its various characteristics.

"Power" in and of itself is neither good nor bad (imo). It's just one of many measures by which a piano can be described or evaluated. Also, a piano's designer may strive to accentuate certain characteristics over others, depending on his vision for the model. Again, neither good nor bad, just a combination of characteristics.

Much of what has been said goes to reinforce, were reinforcement necessary, the several times it has been said that if you can accomodate a 9' piano in terms of sheer size, you are likely to find some amazing deals out there.

My own practice as well my advise to customers has always been to not try a maker's largest but "smallest" piano. To me, it shows the care and attention given to a smaller made product. If such piano shows already good musicality, in my mind it proves the maker's seriousness. If told to "trade up piano to something better later", it *doesn't*.
It's like ordering some appetizers in a restaurant.
If they turn out lousy, why bother ordering a bigger meal?
Norbert

Pianos aren't appetizers... try each piano on an individual basis and pick the best one

If this were true, I'm seriously wondering why so many companies today are building self-admitted "entry-level" pianos. They are hardly more than 'appetizers'..

Only to be of course followed by the "guaranteed full money trade in later" policy.
At which time they take you for full MSLP....

Perhaps its more profitable to sell 2 or 3 pianos instead of only one?

One "good one"... that is.

Norbert