Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Gender aimed scores? I don't think so!

deleted

Unlike you I am not trying to publish, so for the most part no one sees what I write, but believe me when I say this: the number one concern when writing music for students is trying to make it accessible TO as many students as possible without dumbing things down so that the music is no longer something I like myself.

There is nothing harder than writing something that everyone likes AND is also not containing at least one skill that prevents most people from playing it.

Never, ever in my life have I ever heard pieces referred to as boys' pieces or girls' pieces (except maybe an anthology of 'Easy Disney Princess Songs' or something).

So, I don't get the question/concern here, at all!

Unfortunately, these books do exist. Some are as obvious as using the phrase "for boys" or "for girls" in the book title. Others are more subtle, like using different colors and pictures on the covers. Can you imagine boys playing a piece entitled "Hills of Purple Heather"?

I actually attended a presentation in which the anthology editor explicitly stated that she wanted a composition that "boys would like." And then when I played that piece for a girl during class, she said, "Eww."

Gender-based marketing at its worst.

keystring: I really don't understand you deleting your posts... What's up with that?

Sonatainfsharp: Unfortunately there's a very solid market for such scores and music and this is what I do not want to get into. AZN is right unfortunately (yup, I repeated the word twice).

Gary: You are right. I do consider most of these to be somewhat easy, but my very large hand span creates a few issues! Chords and octaves come natural to me and I really wouldn't want to let go. But this is one instance of creating a simple alternative.

No.3 and No. 9 are by far the more difficult ones (and No. 12, which is not online yet). Dealing with that.

pianopi: The "love" part is just a tentative title to distinguish them from everything else I'm working on at the moment. I'd never use that as a title (Blieh).

Thank you everyone!

I could imagine a creative publisher creating 3 editions of the exact same music, but with different titles and artwork--one boyish, one girlish and one gender neutralish.

Do you know any such publisher?

Really though, if I had the resources and didn't care for sales, I'd just go for that!

Actually... an even better idea: If I can find a way to create a "changeable" cover and have titles that work both ways, this could be great! Thanks Malkin!

I think she meant that as a joke.

I know, but I'm really considering this...

Wow, I must be living under a rock!!!

Please don't. Don't compromise your art!!

Can you imagine if Chopin had re-titled his Nocturnes as "Night Songs for Girls" or if Liszt had re-titled his Transcendental Etudes as "Hard, Impressive Showstoppers for Boys"????

Sorry Nikolas, you're right. I saw that the conversation had gone to a useful direction, and didn't want what I wrote to distract from that. I'll put the thoughts back.

I was responding to a post from about a week ago that talked of modern "confusion" ("the modern gender identity politics agenda of confusion") which stated that:

I was born in the 1950's, and grew up long before any modern thing. I was "supposed" to like changing clothes on overly endowed dolls (i.e. Barbies) and the like: I would have loved a construction set (Erectaset), loved toy cars, climbing trees, having adventures. Dressing up dolls gets boring fast. Constructing things is not a "male" activity, because creativity is human, not gender related. I'd say that if there was ever "confusion" it might have been back then in the disparity between one's individual personality, and what one was supposed to like and want to do, and everyone stayed silent. The first break from these messages was while teaching a unit in my internship about the Masai tribe. The modern construction worker would be seen as "unmanly" by them, because women built houses and women carried heavy loads - what, you're not man enough to get you a woman who will carry things for you and build your house? This pointed to the existence of societal constructs as opposed to "nature".

When I play a piece of music: as a student or if I were a trained performer -- and this was true at any age - I might want to express myself, explore music having all kinds of natures because I am a curious and expressive being; I want to bring out of the music what different composers of different eras put into the music, and as a student, learn from that. If anything is being expressed, perhaps it is human emotions and expression.

An interesting aside: In a special creative writing class in the late 1960's we discovered that almost all the girls created male main characters, because they wanted to bring across the total range of actions and personality, and the female fictional character was seen as a narrow stereotype that the girls themselves did not identify with. We, as a group, found this an eye opener.

I don't know what it means to "feel feminine" in doing an artistic work, or the need to do so. Bearing a child, childbirth, nurturing are very feminine acts - men also have a nurturing instinct toward their child so that isn't exclusively feminine. What I do suspect is that people, in pursuing the arts, may have suppressed sides of their humanity, or their full nature for fear of appearing "unfeminine" or "unmasculine". Ideally we want to express: ourselves, the music, the intent of the composer - and get at as wide a range as possible. At least I do.

Ok, sure, the media will tend to publish excesses or extremes, because that's what sells publications, and maybe there is some confusion or some confused people out there. But in general it's a relief that the door is open now to full expression, instead of mutual pretense.

I do not believe in "political correctness" in the sense of saying things because that is what one is supposed to do in this or that age. I do believe in being true to what is real for people. We are human first, with a wide range of personalities, and different moods on different days and times of our lives - that is just how it is.

I do NOT want to spam, but here's a link: http://www.teachpianotoday.com/piano-music-for-boys/

and here's another: https://timtopham.com/piano-music-for-boys-15-of-the-best-pieces-by-daniel-mcfarlane/

And the list can go on...

I mean, they do serve a reason, I guess, but I'm simply against that!

AZN: Then again I find that Nocturnes or Preludes sound anachronistic, and quite generic. Obviously I wouldn't go the "pink colours are for girlies only" title, but I do hope to offer some further insights on what it is I'm doing and why I'm doing it.

Keystring: Extremely interesting. Thank you for putting it back.

Personally as a boy I used to play mainly with girls. Hide and seek, "rope jumping", etc. I would also enjoy the occasional drama in the telly and of course I liked classical music.

Nothing wrong came out of me and this is the way I brought up my kids: Totally free to do as they like and as they please. Labels are no good (then again why the thread? OH well... it's making up for some interesting discussion)

When you have a segment of the market (boys) that is dropping out of piano because they think it's too girlish, then a "Book for Boys" can be a tool to pull them back in. Perhaps there are pockets of areas where there are much more girls than boys taking piano. (Not in my area.) Any tool to address that discrepancy would help.

So I guess I don't agree with all the "For-Boys" bashing.

As an interesting side note: When I bought my Kawai dp recently, the salesman told me he knew all about PianoWorld. A customer had learned here (somewhere? when?) that if you have a daughter, you must buy a Kawai, but sons need Yamahas (or Rolands?).

I think when it comes to titles, the French have gotten it down. Francois Couperin and Rameau started with descriptive titles. So did Debussy, and to a lesser degree Ravel. And then the cryptic titles that Satie used (Vexations, hello?), followed by (my favorite) Structures and Notations of Boulez.

momofbeginners: I see what you mean and as I said, they serve a reason. However, I find that a well written story (fairytale, for example), can have an impact to both boys and girls. In my score "Fairyland in Treble", the first fairytale is called "The King and the Dragon", but it's not all about wars and flames and stuff. Rather it's about the clever use of myths, etc. And the kind has a daughter, etc. So I find that it should appeal to both genders.

Keystring: I remember reading this. Was it you that posted it, or someone else? This is truly bizarre in all accounts. I'd love it if the salesman would come here to explain why he thinks this way... :-/

That assertion is completely bogus!

Well, obviously. Just stating what kinds of weird things can float around and get into people's heads.