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The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher #2588949
11/21/16 11:20 AM
11/21/16 11:20 AM
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Israel
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Nahum Offline OP
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Today I had the first lesson of the new student. Probably every teacher of jazz piano would like to have such: he plays freely in style of Erroll Garner, Oscar Peterson, Bill Evans, Fats Waller; he has solid baggage of piano technique and knowledge in harmony , theory and classical music. And he is still listening to Peterson.
What's next?
Personally, I see here a some problem; it is not frequent, but meets: a passion for transcriptions - as a kind of laziness, instead of searching its own individual style.
I would like to hear opinions about it.

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Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2588972
11/21/16 12:54 PM
11/21/16 12:54 PM
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rintincop Offline
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If somebody that plays that well, I try to stay out of their way... I don't push "you have to make your own style"...I only offer anything if I detect something important that I can help them with. I would jam with them and see how it goes... I might try to offer strategies for improvement (technically, swing) and psychological strategies for how to enjoy more practice.

Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: rintincop] #2588984
11/21/16 01:29 PM
11/21/16 01:29 PM
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Nahum Offline OP
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Originally Posted by rintincop
If somebody that plays that well, I try to stay out of their way... I don't push "you have to make your own style"...I only offer anything if I detect something important that I can help them with. I would jam with them and see how it goes... I might try to offer strategies for improvement (technically, swing) and psychological strategies for how to enjoy more practice.
I totally agree with you and I think the same things, except for one:  should not push him in search of his own style, but offer an alternative, about which he didn't think (already felt for a bit); for example, introduction of of his own voice intonations into melodic lines.

Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2589010
11/21/16 03:57 PM
11/21/16 03:57 PM
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Dfrankjazz Online content
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I would ask such a student to think about the concept of making his music a very personal statement of his deep feelings and convictions about life..what does he want to SAY about life or his or her life through his music. I would absolutely encourage someone like this to search for their own sound and style, not as an end it itself but as a way to communicate something valuable to the world through his/her playing.

DF

Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2589027
11/21/16 05:04 PM
11/21/16 05:04 PM
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rintincop Offline
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We play what we know. And there is nothing wrong with being a stylist. I am not a fan of the must make something new in jazz style in order to be relevant or too communicate to the world. That's a very rare thing.
Everybody plays a little different, therefore they naturally have their "way"... They don't need to worry over making something unique as if they must strive to be the next Picasso. That's some ridiculous romantic idea. Especially when one is already playing straight ahead jazz with excellence and is deeply satisfied in mainstream jazz. Meddling with that is the ego of a teacher who likes to play God, imo.

Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2589047
11/21/16 05:48 PM
11/21/16 05:48 PM
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wow, that's bull---. If a student can learn to play straight ahead and is happy, fine. But not to encourage an exteremely talented student to find their own voice in some way, to search for a personal sound or variation of the everyman norm is mediocre teaching. A student who can do something truly unique is very rare, and most students will be happy to play jazz and God bless them for that. But Nahum presented us with a scenario where a student could already do that. With that kind of talent in a student i will always encourage him/her to look within and find some sort of personal statement to make.

Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2589056
11/21/16 06:15 PM
11/21/16 06:15 PM
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I have concluded that the imperative to create, at times desperately so, is an entirely separate brain function, uncorrelated with measurable musical skills. How else can we explain the hordes of people possessing technical mastery and musical ability who seem to lack the slightest desire or drive to say anything of their own ? I wonder if it can be instilled from cold, by ratiocination and discipline. From what I have seen over a lifetime I sincerely doubt it. I have responded to your excellent Jarrett video on the other forum Dave.


"We shall always love the music of the masters, but they are all dead and now it's our turn." - Llewelyn Jones, my piano teacher
Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2589060
11/21/16 06:30 PM
11/21/16 06:30 PM
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Toronto, Canada
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Having their own sound is important to the likes of Neil Young and Eric Clapton, but doubt it will be for another talented living room piano player/jazz student. Does anyone know if they even play in public or have a desire to? I couldn't care less about anyone's personal statement to the world if it isn't wrapped with a sound I like. I like the artist's they are hoping to come close with. Sounds like they should know what they want, so easiest to ask.

Last edited by Greener; 11/21/16 06:42 PM.
Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2589073
11/21/16 06:59 PM
11/21/16 06:59 PM
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The ultimate issue as a teacher, IMO, is to try to bring out what lies in the student. Encouragement to the extraordinary student to look inside and try to find something personal is a beautiful thing. I have seen where many times real good students may be content to play mechanically or totally in the style of their heroes, but when prompted to LOOK they discover something precious within, that adds a powerful dimension to their artistic experience.

You never know if someone has something inside them, and you can't force it. You can ENCOURAGE.

Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2589126
11/22/16 01:13 AM
11/22/16 01:13 AM
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I wrote that student playing freely these styles, not perfectly . It should still work on articulation, because it comes out by wild way, and he doesn't know exactly what was doing.
On the other hand, I had a case where I took a student free of charge . His outstanding talent just has forced to find a completely different approach, far from the standard (today he is Grammy Award winner and is working with the most outstanding American jazz artists).

Last edited by Nahum; 11/22/16 01:15 AM.
Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2589178
11/22/16 08:59 AM
11/22/16 08:59 AM
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Midwest USA
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Indeed Genius is something to behold. An often overused term. I've worked with some outstanding people, but then there are the few that seem to be singular. Truth be told, I wouldn't know if was a blessing or a curse. I'm from the land of the blind, where the one eyed man is king. Not only do I not know what's happening, I don't even suspect.


Rhythm & Chords, it's what I do.
Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2589198
11/22/16 10:24 AM
11/22/16 10:24 AM
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Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2589220
11/22/16 11:56 AM
11/22/16 11:56 AM
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Excellent stylist! (derived from Jarret (Gospel ballad), Oscar(Fly Me To The Moon). Reminds me of Benny Green, total master. Love it.

Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: rintincop] #2589240
11/22/16 01:16 PM
11/22/16 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rintincop
Excellent stylist! (derived from Jarret (Gospel ballad), Oscar(Fly Me To The Moon). Reminds me of Benny Green, total master. Love it.
If a limit of dreams - the piano bar or hotel lobby, then yes ! But I think beyond that, and I'm going inspire him.

Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2631609
04/09/17 01:48 PM
04/09/17 01:48 PM
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Nahum Offline OP
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Here is my other student. I love him - he's looking for his own language.
https://yadi.sk/d/K-2KKa9L3GnzyH

Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2631634
04/09/17 03:04 PM
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Wow absolutely terrific!!

Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2631942
04/10/17 02:38 PM
04/10/17 02:38 PM
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Hi Nahum

You have probably heard this before, but there is a great story Oscar Peterson tells when he was interviewed by Andre Previn. He was invited to a club to hear this great Pianist. The guy arrives and plays his first tune, and it's "straight Tatum". The guy plays another tune and again its "straight Tatum". After another number Oscar thinks hmm and goes and asks the guy to play I've Got Rhythm, which at that time Tatum hadn't recorded. The guy couldn't play it.

Maybe your student can only in effect play "straight Tatum".

That said I wish I had the skill to play (and read) like your student!!

Cheers


Simon
Yamaha CLP535
Casio CTK-7200
Hammond XB1

Play what you enjoy listening to, listen to what you enjoy playing!




Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Simon_b] #2631997
04/10/17 05:02 PM
04/10/17 05:02 PM
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Nahum Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Simon_b


Maybe your student can only in effect play "straight Tatum".
Do you mean first student? There is something like this: he acquired luggage from Tatum and Peterson recordings , and in no way I can not push him to in -depth work on arranging of themes and other approaches to improvisation, beyond transcriptions.

Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2632415
04/12/17 09:44 AM
04/12/17 09:44 AM
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Kent, UK
Simon_b Offline
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Yes the first student.

It was an excuse to tell a good story!

Cheers


Simon
Yamaha CLP535
Casio CTK-7200
Hammond XB1

Play what you enjoy listening to, listen to what you enjoy playing!




Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Simon_b] #2632433
04/12/17 10:41 AM
04/12/17 10:41 AM
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Nahum Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Simon_b
Yes the first student.

It was an excuse to tell a good story!

He is 27 years old . The second student is ten years younger, never makes problems: he listens and tries very hard to carry out the tasks as accurately as possible. So he sounded before the beginning of lessons with me:

https://vk.com/audios171132680

Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2748024
06/29/18 07:40 AM
06/29/18 07:40 AM
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Nahum Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Nahum
Here is my other student. I love him - he's looking for his own language.
https://yadi.sk/d/K-2KKa9L3GnzyH
https://yadi.sk/d/44_r3Dd23YakLz

Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Nahum] #2748084
06/29/18 01:29 PM
06/29/18 01:29 PM
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Kent, UK
Simon_b Offline
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Lovely playing Nahum.

Thanks for posting.

Cheers


Simon
Yamaha CLP535
Casio CTK-7200
Hammond XB1

Play what you enjoy listening to, listen to what you enjoy playing!




Re: The dream of every (?) Jazz teacher [Re: Simon_b] #2748088
06/29/18 01:34 PM
06/29/18 01:34 PM
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Nahum Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Simon_b
Lovely playing Nahum.

Thanks for posting.

Cheers
Thanks ,Simon ; I love this student !

Last edited by Nahum; 06/29/18 01:35 PM.

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