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Hello, pianists, First, a disclaimer: I have no financial relationship with this potential new program, but have offered to help crowd-source ideas from adult amateur pianists. This summer, I attended the Edward Auer Summer Piano Workshop at Indiana University, Bloomington. It was a great opportunity to immerse myself in piano for 12 days: master classes every day, private lessons, high caliber performances each evening, and as much practice room time as anyone could want. Per their website, the program appears heavily targeted toward pre-college age, +/- 5 years. However, there also were a few other adult amateur pianists attending last year and previous years. They have asked me to help design a new program segment designed for adult amateur pianists that would run concurrently with their regular workshop, sharing some events, but with some activities designed expressly for the adult participants. What activities would encourage you to participate in a program like this? Talks on specific topics (preparing for performance, Feldenkrais and similar techniques, interpretation of a specific composer, other ideas?), performance opportunities, master class participant opportunities, social activities with the other adult amateurs, duet and/or chamber music opportunities, caliber of the master class and private lesson teachers, what else? Options for weekend, 5-day, or 7-day program - what is a good time frame? What information would you like to see on the website specific to the adult program? http://www.music.indiana.edu/precollege/adult/edward-auer-piano/summer-workshop/index.shtmlLooking forward to your suggestions and questions!
Working on: Schumann, Faschingsschwank aus Wien Op. 26; Mozart Piano Sonata No. 10 in C major, K. 330; Grieg, 25 Norwegian Folk Songs and Dances, 0p. 17 (selections)
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Hello Elaine! Just some off-the-cuff reactions to the specifics that you mentioned: ....Talks on........ (preparing for performance I wouldn't think so, unless you're talking about an unusually high level of "adult amateur pianists." Is it anticipated that the adult amateur pianists will include any significant proportion of people who will be aiming much for performances? ....Feldenkrais and similar techniques My gut tells me even a stronger 'no' on this than on the first one -- not that I'm against it; I sometimes recommend such things! -- but this seems to me like a 'footnote' type of thing, a niche sort of thing, rather than a thing that's central enough to include in such a program. ....interpretation of a specific composer....) Sure! That's the first one of these that strikes me as a 'yes.' .....[talks on]....other...? Sort of a takeoff from the above thing: I think a good possibility would be the whole subject of how to use scores in general -- i.e. a more general thing than interpretation of specific composers; the whole thing of how the score isn't just the notes, but the tempo markings and other expressive markings, and how they're intrinsic to the music. Maybe some stuff about how 'hairpins' can mean things besides just 'get louder' and 'get softer' although that's somewhat controversial. And, although we want to make sure to pay attention to expressive markings, we have to be aware that they often reflect the editor rather than the composer, and so it can matter a lot which edition me use, and how sometimes there are large disagreements between editions -- which is a whole interesting thing in itself, especially because people love conflict. Lots of possible interesting general stuff about interpretation of scores, stuff that's well-known to most of us on this site, because it gets discussed here constantly, but which might be brand new to many attendees of such a program. performance opportunities, master class participant opportunities, social activities with the other adult amateurs, duet and/or chamber music opportunities Yes to all of those -- and I'd say especially chamber music opportunities. I'd guess that for most such participants, chamber music is the most relevant and beneficial focus, including to those people who maybe have never done much of it before. BTW I'm coming somewhat from a personal bias in saying this. I think that for most adult amateurs, chamber music deserves great emphasis, including because it makes their music a social and interpersonal thing. I'm a believer in social and interpersonal things .....even though I myself haven't done much chamber music for many years. I think it would be good to provide chamber music opportunities and coaching in the program, and with some emphasis on encouraging continued involvement in "playing with people" after they go back home. caliber of the master class and private lesson teachers Not sure what you mean there. Options for weekend, 5-day, or 7-day program - what is a good time frame? Can't do much in a weekend. If it were just a weekend, the possibilities would have to be far, far less ambitious. 5 or 7 days seems better; no idea which of those would be better. I mean, obviously 'more' would offer more possibilities -- more stuff, more depth -- but it might be harder to get people to come for 7 days than for 5, plus it would necessarily be more expensive. What information would you like to see on the website specific to the adult program? Depends on who it's being targeted at, and what the program will include. It should give a clear impression of both. Good luck! This is a great idea, and good job on your part to be seeking people's thoughts.
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Mark,
Thank you so much for your detailed comments. Your paragraph around "how to use scores in general" and "interpretation" leads into a lot of topics I hadn't considered, that will be more immediately useful than some of the topics we were initially thinking of. That whole paragraph goes into my recommendations!
Everywhere I bring this up, I hear that chamber music is a real interest. I am hoping we could hire some grad students or orchestra professionals who are in and around the university to play the string or wind parts and serve as coaches.
"Caliber": At least some of the teachers involved with this program have strong international performance careers as well as academic careers (and as major competition judges, etc.). I was pleased to find them very open to working with a rank amateur like me. I wanted to see how important these types of credentials are in attracting people to a program.
Regarding "preparing for performances": I am sure I see a non-random sample of the universe of adult amateurs, so I assumed people do want to perform, whether for recitals, senior centers, piano groups, family/friends, etc., if not competitions, house concerts, benefits, or other venues. One of my workshop teachers said I need to focus on "practice performing" and take it seriously, so I was seeing that as an option for the program. I'd be curious to know how much performing is a focus for others who attend summer programs.
Thank you. I hope others will join the conversation - and of course, any other program is free to use the ideas.
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Something I'd add: Besides chamber music, but along the same lines, it might be good to include accompanying -- which could be mainly accompanying singers but maybe also accompanying individual instrumentalists in things like concertos, playing piano versions of the orchestra parts. Those things are a lot of what can come up socially in music circles. They're fun and interesting (provided the singers and instrumentalists aren't too 'diva,' but after all, we're sometimes kind of diva ourselves) ....and the singers and instrumentalists are thrilled when they have pianists who can do it with them. Doing it well is somewhat of a skill, and it can be coached pretty readily in a short-term framework such as in a program like what you're talking about. And of course it overlaps a lot with chamber music. BTW it can also lend itself to making some money, for people who are quite good at it and want to approach it seriously.
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If it flies, this is going to attract advanced adult hobby pianists, not beginners or intermediates, given the hotshot youth program on which it is piggybacking. If you want the adults to bond with one another, the duration should be at least four or five days.
I would just ask each faculty member to present one adult amateur session according to their interests, and the content will unfold by itself.
How many participants are in the kids' program? How many adults are you hoping for, or can you accommodate?
You could pair kids and adults somehow; that would be interesting.
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(If I were an adult in such a program, I'd only want to be 'paired' with adults.)
I would want there to be little if any combination of the two programs. What would be most meaningful to us would have almost no overlap with what would be meaningful to them.
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(If I were an adult in such a program, I'd only want to be 'paired' with adults.)
I would want there to be little if any combination of the two programs. What would be most meaningful to us would have almost no overlap with what would be meaningful to them. I am a strong fan of adult piano camps, but would not want to be paired with anyone-- particularly a young, concert pianist-bound type. And I know they would not want to be paired with an adult amateur. If any pairing were in the setup, I would likely 'pass' on this camp. I don't think this would attract just advanced amateurs-- the two I have attended have had participants at all levels. But the advertising needs to stress it is for all levels of adult pianists in big, bold letters. Set a MINIMUM age that is beyond the Julliard wanna-be.
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If you include chamber music, it would naturally attract late intermediate or advanced amateurs. Especially they know they cannot get the score in far asbance. The organizers usually do not know how many and what kind of instrumentalists they can have for the program until the last minute. At least the ones I attended.
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Having adult participants truly connected to the high school program would be of benefit to both age groups. Most of the kids will eventually grow up to be adult amateur pianists, if they don't quit altogether. And they might experience that many adult pianists play with more maturity than they do. Conversely, the adults would start to see their young selves anew in these younger performers, and it would spur the adults in their own piano work.
To me it would be a fascinating concept, and set this Indiana U program apart from other summer piano workshops.
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Hi, Elaine! You don't mention whether you know of the Sonatina programs that the van der Linde family have conducted for many years now, in Bennington, VT -- but I thought immediately of that when you presented this post. Similar to the Indiana situation, they started out with a "Summer Sonatina" event intended for kids and teens only, but then branched out into "Sonata" programs for adults as well. I participated in one of them one year, in the late 1980s, when it was still a fledgling proposition, but since that time it has caught on to the extent that they now have a 2 - 3 year waiting list for participants. You might visit their website, or even contact Polly van der Linde Cobb (the director) to get some perspective -- what has worked; what to avoid, etc -- because that now can be considered to be, I would say, a successful business model for the proposition at hand.
Incidentally, nice to meet you at the CAPC event a couple of months back (albeit briefly)! You also did a very nice job as moderator for one of the competitive rounds.
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Thank you all for your thoughtful input!
The program has had about 30-40 participants mostly ages 15 to about 28 who are at a very high level; some stay all 12 days, some for just a week. Last year there were 3 adult amateurs (including me) who actively participated, about 5 (piano teachers, community members) who came to listen to the master classes and evening performances, and some enrolled to audit the master classes via live stream. A reasonable goal would be 10-15 adult amateurs the first year (2017). The program content and size for the adults may grow over time.
The wide age range did not appear to pose any problems last year; I think it unfolded exactly as Peter Mose suggests, and there was some cross-generational camaraderie and appreciation.
Most likely, for 2017, the "whiz kids'" (my term) master classes and the evening performances (by the staff, guest artists, and selected young participants) would be shared activities; the adult master classes, performance options, social activities, etc., would be separate. I think the older among the <30 set would be interested in the same lecture topics as the adults, so there could be crossover there. I don't foresee any parts of the program that would pair individual adults with someone from the <30 set, but they would cross paths from time to time, maybe share the first night pizza dinner, etc.
The program already asks participants' intended rep when they apply (although there were lots of last-minute changes). That would help with matching people for duets, chamber music, accompaniment practice, etc., and getting people the scores well in advance. I think there would be good access to other instrumentalists and vocalists for collaborative piano.
While it would be nice to focus on all levels of adults, I'm beginning to agree with those who feel that real audience is high intermediate to advanced - at least until there is a larger adult contingent. It's difficult to know how to word that since most of us are not in a graded exam program.
Thank you all - and please keep the ideas coming.
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My guess is that the playing level for the adults will be self-selecting, Elaine: early-level players won't sign up. Or just an advertising phrase like this might do the trick: "Intended for studio piano teachers and adult classical pianists of at least an advanced-intermediate level."
Given that this is piggybacking on a large existing piano program, and you only need ten people to pull off the adult camp, it should succeed. You might elect not to invite studio piano teachers, though, and instead concentrate on genuine amateurs. That's a policy decision.
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Peter, thank you. "Intended for adult classical pianists of at least an advanced-intermediate level" is an accurate phrase to attract the target audience for this first year, which is indeed the genuine amateurs. If/as the program grows, the range of levels may change.
I'll keep the forum posted on new developments as this moves from concept to (I hope) reality.
(And please keep the ideas flowing...)
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I would hope to see in adult workshop would be hopefully a chance to play chamber music together with small orchestra. I mean not the full concerto kind of hard stuff. But even though some Mozart sonata K 545 and some Clementi and Kuhlau sonatina if can be played with small orchestra that would be really fun and I would be really looking forward to that.
In Progress: 1.Debussy Arabasque1 2. Czerny 740 no 3 3. Mozart Sonata K330 1st Movement 4. Bach Prelude and Fugue in C Major
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Other thing I would like to see would be class on music theory, ear training, sight reading, and some improvisation and composition.
In Progress: 1.Debussy Arabasque1 2. Czerny 740 no 3 3. Mozart Sonata K330 1st Movement 4. Bach Prelude and Fugue in C Major
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Thank you, pianofan1017! Those are some good topics for classes and discussion. Not sure if it's feasible for 2017 but the chamber orchestra idea sounds fun and interesting, so I'll add it to the wish list.
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Peter, thank you. "Intended for adult classical pianists of at least an advanced-intermediate level" is an accurate phrase to attract the target audience for this first year, which is indeed the genuine amateurs. If/as the program grows, the range of levels may change.
I'll keep the forum posted on new developments as this moves from concept to (I hope) reality.
(And please keep the ideas flowing...) My experience with this sort of thing involves two separate week-long visits to Summerkeys and a two-week stint at the Victoria Academy of Music's summer Piano Academy for adults. I got a fair bit out of both experiences, and the Bloomington concept sounds intriguing. One suggestion: There are a lot of people (like me) who are passionate about playing piano who began playing only as adults and who may never be able to reach performing or teaching status. A lot of us, though, are willing to travel to attend programs like this, and though we may only play at the intermediate level (or lower), we get something out of the experience. Moreover, I have not noticed any concerns about our presence from either fellow "campers" or instructors. To many of those, the enthusiasm of having passionate participants justifies their inclusion. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I hope the Bloomington program will welcome adult starters, even if they aren't yet up to an advanced intermediate level of playing. I for one would be very tempted by a program affiliated with that great conservatory.
"Don't let the devil fool you - Here comes a dove; Nothing cures like time and love." -- Laura Nyro
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Hi, ClsscLib,
For sure, the intended audience for the adult amateur segment is NOT people who are likely to become performers or teachers. I don't know what they will finally decide about levels. One concern is that someone who is a very early beginner, still figuring out how the notes on the page relate to the keys on the piano, might not get enough out of it. Beyond that, I don't know for sure...
Another focus the program leaders have mentioned is their interest in serving adult amateur pianists who also are passionate about music from the audience perspective. (I learned a lot in the master classes focusing on soloist/conductor/orchestra interactions, led by a conductor, which was helpful "music appreciation" info that I will never personally have a chance to use as a pianist, for example.)
So, please stay tuned. I will share your viewpoint.
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Hi Elaine, I agree with your earlier idea that amateur players perform at all sorts of levels and venues. I think a lot of adult amateurs would be interested in help with preparing for sharing their music with others. I also like the ideas of offering experiences in chamber music and accompanying, which can be hard to come by for the individual amateur.
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A workshop for adult, amateur pianists is a great idea. I'm sure there are many who could benefit from, and bring ideas to, such a workshop. Some great ideas have already be mentioned, and I'll repeat some of them:
1. Information on physical changes that affect playing and how to adapt to them. 2. Session on opportunities for adult amateurs to continue to play and how to find them. 3. Networking and club-forming opportunities. 4. Building a repertoire -- how to put together a realistic set of pieces and what pieces are good for mature amateurs to learn. 5. Collaborative playing -- opportunities for four-hand piano, two piano/two players, etc. 6. Review of practical techniques that help improve playing, as well as a review (or introduction to) of music theory. 7. Specialty workshops on various styles of music (Classical, Jazz, Ragtime) and skills (sight reading, accompanying).
I don't know if other amateurs feel this way, but I find it both very rewarding and frustrating that I can participate in and contribute to music in community and other non-academic or non-professional venues, and yet there's an isolation because I'm not a professional musician and can access opportunities for professionals or younger, developing musicians. Workshops, clubs, amateur competitions all are great ways for "mature" amateurs to build upon their skills and help inspire young musicians who do not plan to be concert pianists or other types of professional musicians.
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