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I did try the first page and looked through the score but was slightly turned off by the difficulty haha.
I think it would take me quite a while to just get the notes down, plus I can foresee many pedaling challenges. I'm thinking of officially taking it up with my teacher after my current serious piece which is Liszt Schubert's Erlkonig. I've just been spending a tiny bit of time fiddling with Ballade 1...hopefully I can get on it soon.
I'm excited to hear you play the entire thing though!
I think it took me about 3 months to get the notes down. It's now roughly 6 months since I started this piece. I have 6 more months to go.
Lately I'm finding myself spending a lot less time in this piece and concentrating in other pieces instead. I'm trying not to let me passion for this piece diminish, but it's hard when you've played something so many times for so many months...
Well done, Tubbie! It sounds good, and I like your practice of breaking it up into small passages.
(In case you haven't seen it, your journal here has inspired me to start a journal entry as well, to track my injury recovery and re-training... So far so good, if slow, and thanks for the inspiration!
The progress has really slowed in the past 2-3 months: being away for a month and then my teacher was away for a few weeks. I missed a lot of lessons. Last weekend I came down with hay fever and had to skip another lesson. Sigh..
I'm now working on improving the speed and reliability of the Presto section. To do that, I have to re-examine what is slowing me down and figure out what techniques to adjust. This section is very frustrating. So far I'm practising to let go of my thumb and rotate inward further so that my 2nd finger doesn't stretch when playing 6th with 2&5 fingers. I'm also going slow to re-examining my rotations: is it single rotation or double rotation and is it rotating inward or outward. The jumping left hand doesn't make this passage any easier either!
Anyway, I'm progressing, but so ever slowly! Thanks for your encouragement.
I've been following your journal too and I wish you speedy recovery.
I have to say if I didn't take sufficient lessons and attempted this piece, I'd surely injure my hands and wrists many times over by now. I have my teacher to thank for the many techniques he has taught me. While I struggle to learn and this piece, I have yet to have any injuries (touch wood!). That should be an accomplishment in itself.
I've commented in other posts before. There is no point in playing the entire piece from start to end over and over again during practise sessions. That's a waste of time. The most I'd do that is once in a practise session (ok, sometimes twice). Most of the time I don't even do it, especially now that I know all the notes and fingerings. I'd only do it to see which sections I may have forgotten some notes and then relearn those sections briefly. Most of the practise time is spent on examining and experimenting how to push the difficult sections to the next level or finding out what ways I can play with more reliability. Then there are times spent on adjusting the left and right hand dynamics, adjusting the touch and weight to get a better sound.
There's still a lot to do for the next 6 months. That said, 1 year ago I wouldn't be able to imagine playing this piece and reaching this far. I'm very grateful!
I really liked your March vs. October video! The tempo is different, obviously, but to me the important differences are phrasing and rhythm. The March clips have a lot of notes played at more or less equal volume. In the October clips everything is shaped much better so the phrases and rhythms stand out more beautifully. You (and your teacher) are doing a great job.
What a fantastic tool, seeing your progress like this back to back! Very motivating to see so much progress. And it truly points to how much hard work goes into the satisfaction of playing something this beautiful. Thank you for sharing!
Tubbie, Your progress on the Ballade is very inspirational. The piece has so many difficult sections and you now play them fluidly and with wonderful expression. It also seems like you have memorized the piece? Congratulations on your hard work and thanks for sharing your journey.
Your March Vs. October video is amazing! Great editing. It most certainly has to be motivating to see how far you have come. Maybe when I retire in a few months and settle into my home I will take a page from your book and video record myself while I learn apiece. Thanks again!
Thanks everyone for your compliments. The progress difference in the first 6 months does seem significant. I suspect the progress in the next 6 months will be very minimal because it's getting rather difficult to raise the bar even by just a little from where I am now.
The first 6 months was practising to get it right. I'd say that in most of the difficult passages I get about 30%-40% success rate, and 70%-80% for less difficult passages. So one of the improvement aspects I will aim for from now is try to raise that reliability rate as high as I possibly can, i.e. practise to never get it wrong.
In terms of playing from memory, I've memorised the piece around June/July. I have played the entire piece from memory a number of times. Lately, I've been forgetting some notes here and there, possibly due to focusing more on other pieces I am learning. So I'll go back to practising with the score.
As for videos, I suppose there's not much point in making more progress videos if the progression will be minimal. Rather, I should aim to record large sections, perhaps divide the piece into 3 large sections and aim to record them. I'm nearly there for the first section, and not too far for the last section. The middle section needs more work. The final goal for video recording, of course, is to record playing the entire piece from start to end!
You're doing well, Tubbie, and I don't want to downplay your achievements but I want to offer an alternative view from one old enough to have learnt many things to one young enough to benefit from such knowledge.
Originally Posted by Tubbie0075
The first 6 months was practising to get it right. I'd say that in most of the difficult passages I get about 30%-40% success rate, and 70%-80% for less difficult passages. So one of the improvement aspects I will aim for from now is try to raise that reliability rate as high as I possibly can, i.e. practise to never get it wrong.
I understand that being at a suitable level to begin studying this piece your reading should be at a high level but reading fast enough for a high error rate is not how I would approach a repertory piece - and this is definitely a repertory piece. Practising to never get it wrong is a fundamental principle in approaching a precision instrument and should be the attitude from the very first reading at the keyboard.
BTW, I seriously doubt your error rate. If you were considering the number of phrases played without error then two thirds of the phrases played wrong seems probable but two thirds of the piece played wrong is a gross overstatement, I'm sure.
Errors made in the preparatory readings are among the hardest errors to eradicate, especially when performance nerves kick in. I get the feeling you may have shot yourself in the foot with this approach. I have studied this piece myself, it's one of the last pieces my teacher gave me, and continue to work at it but I doubt that my error rate was more than 2% at any time - or I'd have curtailed the practice session. As a piece set for the long haul, the practise tempo was never of any concern so was always subordinate to accuracy.
Going forward I'd aim for getting it right, then start practising.
Originally Posted by Tubbie0075
In terms of playing from memory, I've memorised the piece around June/July. I have played the entire piece from memory a number of times. Lately, I've been forgetting some notes here and there, possibly due to focusing more on other pieces I am learning. So I'll go back to practising with the score.
Going back to the score for memory issues will weaken the memory. Forcing the memory to recover will strengthen it. This is not a piece I would countenance performing with the score and as such I only practise what I can memorise.
I work on this piece in twenty minor sections, five main sections. Joining the minor sections, for me, would mean going slower but not compromising accuracy. I have to be at 98% accuracy at worst and reduce the tempo with each amalgamation so the initial tempo would have to be very high to warrant only three main sections. At what level of accuracy is it worth getting the melody right and vamping the chords, moving Chopin from the salon to the cocktail lounge?
I'd return to smaller sections while the memory recovers - I only practise in the smaller sections anyway. Joining well oiled sections is a separate part of my practise session.
The other day, my teacher explained what it is meant by technical difficulty. He said that a piece being more difficult means the room for "getting away with it" is smaller. So to me it means that the techniques have to be very precise, i.e. just the right amount of the right techniques to use.
When one starts to learn a piece slowly, one would use different amount of different techniques and one would learn the different techniques separately before putting them together, then slowly adjust those amounts and techniques as one speed up.
That said, I do agree to strive for accuracy right from the start, but allowing room for error when one is experimenting and exploring techniques. Sometimes, trying too hard to play right restrict the freedom of learning and exploring the right techniques, at least to me that is.
You misread me about sectioning the piece. My next aim for recording videos is 3 large sections, that doesn't mean I am going to practise in 3 large sections.
As for memory, I'd say each to their own approach. How my brain works differ to yours in memorising something. At this point, I don't need to force myself to memorise it. I already have it memorised more or less. Also, my ex-violin teacher gave me good but different advice to yours.
Each has their own objectives of what they want to do with the piece. If one is practising to perform the piece publicly or to perform for an exam, playing this piece, or any other pieces from memory is crucial. That is not my aim. I never learn the piano to aim for performing publicly one day. I may play something for someone in rare social occasions, but that's it. My goal may change, but playing the piano is a very personal and private thing that I enjoy doing for myself.
For the pieces I am preparing for my exam next year, I have different approach of preparing them compared to this Ballade. It is after all my stretch piece for now.
Rather than starting a new thread, I thought I'd just piggy bag on this thread to journal my journey on Ballade No. 4.
I started listening to this piece frequently since early 2017. Initially I was listening to Nikolai Luganski (The Poor, Sad Angel - A Chopin Recital 2007 album). Later in the year, I started listening to Seong-Jin Cho, winner of the International Chopin Competition 2015 (Chopin Piano Concerto No. 1 and Ballades 2016 album). Then I was listening to Nikolak Luganski again but this time on a more recent live performance on YouTube. Lately, I've been listening to Kate Liu on YouTube, 3rd place at the same competition.
I started learning this piece around mid-December 2017 and had 1 lesson on the piece so far. Since then, my teacher has been away until February 2018. So I've been pretty much on my own.
As with all big and difficult pieces, I always spend the first 2-3 months learning notes and fingerings. So far I have reached the half way mark, the easier half. My teacher said that Ballade No. 4 is easier than Ballade No. 1. I beg to differ. In my case, for someone with terrible sight-reading skills, pieces with lots of notes are more challenging to learn, especially in the beginning.
My plan is to spend the next 6 months learning this piece, then briefly revisit Racmaninov's prelude No. 5 for 2 months, then revisiting Ballade No. 1 again for 4 months. That's my piano goals for this year, 3 pieces.
I haven't made a single YouTube video since the last one I posted on Ballade No. 1 in October 2016. Perhaps Ballade No. 4 will inspire me to post some practise videos again on YouTube.
I welcome anyone who has attempted this piece to share their learning/performing experience.
29 more bars to go, but this will be the hardest part of the entire piece. This 29 bars will probably take 1.5 months to learn. I'm almost there. Soldier on!
I have a bit less than 4 months left allocated for Ballade No. 4. That means I only have about 2.5 months of actually learning the piece (rather than learning notes, fingerings and techniques).
I already miss the piece even though I'm not departing it until July :-(
I have to say, it took much longer to learn the notes for this Ballade compared to the first one... just because there are so many more notes, and flats, and double flats... and sometimes a sharp here and there among the flats just in case you're not confused enough. My brain is so fried reading the music! I've just started learning the coda this week so I'm playing like terrible sight reading at the moment.
Technically it is less difficult than Ballade No. 1 but this Ballade contains many of my nemesis: double notes, polyrhythm, wide left hand arpeggios, one-handed contrapuntal melodic lines in chords just to name a few.
I only have 3.5 more months left for this piece. I wonder how far I will get by the end of June. Hopefully will make another video to compare.
You are so very inspiring to me! Thank you for posting your journey. I have been looking to see when you would post another video and you did. It would be great to see one of your playing Ballade #1. If, you are so inclined. Your piano has a beautiful tone.
I would like to know what video camera you use and what editing you use. It is very smooth. DO you use external microphones on your piano? How many? I am looking to record myself in the same manner - I believe that it will help me in my practice.
Thank you so much for your video. I would wish you luck, but, young man, you don't need it!
