2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Who's Online Now
57 members (Alex C, butchkoch, Bachus, coaster, Craig Richards, 14 invisible), 468 guests, and 221 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Tuning Simulator
Chris Leslie #2567673 08/31/16 04:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 212
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 212
I agree with there should be an automatic feature to switch on chromatic M3s-- instead of manually clicking the chromatic M3s an hitting space bar Also would like to see a feature that allows use to use the larger interval checks M17s.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Tuning Simulator
Gadzar #2567678 08/31/16 05:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 356
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 356
Originally Posted by Gadzar


1. Add "Listen Interval" buttons (from the note selected for tuning)

Done. We now have keyboard shortcuts for playing 3rds, 4th, 5ths, 6ths, octaves, 10ths, 12ths, and double octaves from the note being tuned. This also addresses your "tests" function. Try it out.

There is also a visual indication of what notes are playing.
There are now wav files for all the notes from C3 to C5.


Robert Scott
Hopkins, Minnesota
http://www.tunelab-world.com
Re: Tuning Simulator
Robert Scott #2567696 08/31/16 06:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 25
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 25
Hi Robert! Thanks for your work on this. I downloaded the update and have tried two different laptops, one with a small screen and one with a large screen and can't see the full keyboard, just G3 to A5 on both. Can a scrolling function be added or have the keyboard adjust to the size of the monitor. Great work as always!

Long time TuneLab user, (TL97, TuneLab Pro, PPC, Android)
Brent Musgrave


Brent Musgrave
Piano Tuner-Technician
Re: Tuning Simulator
Robert Scott #2567753 08/31/16 11:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Originally Posted by Robert Scott
Originally Posted by Gadzar


1. Add "Listen Interval" buttons (from the note selected for tuning)

Done. We now have keyboard shortcuts for playing 3rds, 4th, 5ths, 6ths, octaves, 10ths, 12ths, and double octaves from the note being tuned. This also addresses your "tests" function. Try it out.

There is also a visual indication of what notes are playing.
.
.
.


Thanks Robert,

I've tried it out and I'm afraid it doesn´t work as expected.

Tuning of A4 for example. I click on the square of A4 so I can tune it using the up and down arrows. The square above A4 is highlighted in green. When I click on the A4 key I hear A4 and a pink dot appears on the A4 key. If I depress the space bar A4 is sounded.

If I click now on the E4 key I hear E4 and a pink dot appears on the E4. If I depress now the space bar I hear the E4A4 fourth, that's fine.

But now if I click the D4 key (to hear the D4A4 fifth) then unexpectedly I hear the second D4E4, the pink dot moves from A4 to D4.

IMO the pink dot should move from the note not being tuned (E4) to the new selected note D4, keeping A4 selected until we click on another square.

I think there should be only one pink dot, not two of them. I mean the note being tuned should always sound. If you click on this note the pink dot appears on this note and only this note will be sounded. If you clik on another note, then the pink dot moves to this new note and you will hear the interval formed by this note and the tuned note. If you click now on a third note then the pink dot moves to this note and you will hear the new interval formed with the tuned note.

(I have troubles to express my ideas in english, it's not my native language)

But this won´t work with tests in which the common note is not the tuned note but the test note. So IMO the best will be to have the +/- P8, P5, P4, M3, M6, etc... interval and test buttons described in my first post.

Of course, you can select both notes of the interval you want to hear, by clicking on the two corresponding keys and then press the space bar to hear the interval but then the anoying thing is that the note sounds when you click on the key and you have to click on 4 keys and to press twice the space bar, so if you want to check a fourth, A3D4 for example, with the M3M6 test you have to

-click and hear F3
-click and hear A3
-press the space bar to hear the M3 F3A3
-click and hear F3
-click and hear D4
-press the space bar to finally hear the M6 F3D4

The hearing of the single notes between the intervals is distracting and you have too many steps to do to complete the test. That is definitely not what we do in aural tuning.

In aural tuning we alternately play the first interval and then the second and compare their beat rates.

If there were "test" buttons then, the tuned note being D4 for example, you have to click on the +M3M6 test button to hear F3A3 and click it again to hear F3D4. The test button will alternately play the two intervals used in the test. The + sign meaning you are tuning the upper note of the interval, if you were tuning the lower note (A3 in this case) then the -M3M6 test button should be used.

eek #methinks

Last edited by Gadzar; 09/01/16 12:13 AM.
Re: Tuning Simulator
Robert Scott #2567772 09/01/16 01:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 115
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 115
But wow Robert, what a great innovation! You are the man smile

Re: Tuning Simulator
Robert Scott #2567894 09/01/16 12:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 78
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 78
I'm delighted to see you take on this project, Robert. I look forward to making use of this.


Floyd G RPT
www.floydgadd.com
Re: Tuning Simulator
Robert Scott #2568079 09/02/16 02:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 212
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 212
This is just a thought. Can you assign the right mouse button for selecting an alternate interval for comparing beat speeds? for instance selecting with the right mouse button the interval " A3-D4 " as an alternate interval with selecting A3-E4.. Might make it easy to keep the user interface more simple.

Re: Tuning Simulator
Robert Scott #2568080 09/02/16 02:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 212
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 212
I've already made great use out of this. You can use this at your own convenience which is great. I've used it the past few mornings its really neat! This will help me develop more of a musical ear for the way beats should sound. Great tool wish I would have thought of it first :-p

Last edited by HelloMrZebra; 09/02/16 02:51 AM.
Re: Tuning Simulator
Gadzar #2568123 09/02/16 09:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 356
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 356
OK, I think I have solved the problem of playing alternate intervals, as requested by Gadzar and HelloMrZebra. The latest version just uploaded uses the PgUp key to alternate between a primary interval and the secondary interval. See the expanded section in the Help file under "How notes are played".

Also, @Brent: Keyboard scrolling is already implemented. Just use the mouse to grab and drag the portion of the screen just below the white notes.


Robert Scott
Hopkins, Minnesota
http://www.tunelab-world.com
Re: Tuning Simulator
HelloMrZebra #2568208 09/02/16 03:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 297
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 297
Originally Posted by HelloMrZebra
I've already made great use out of this. You can use this at your own convenience which is great. I've used it the past few mornings its really neat! This will help me develop more of a musical ear for the way beats should sound. Great tool wish I would have thought of it first :-p


It's not a 'new' idea.

www.goptools.com//tempertool.html







"Respond intelligently, even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
Re: Tuning Simulator
Robert Scott #2568456 09/04/16 12:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 212
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 212
To me its new...Don't you wish you had this technology starting out?

Re: Tuning Simulator
Robert Scott #2568941 09/06/16 03:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 115
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 115
Robert, can there be a 'detune' button for detuning the available notes or perhaps the temperament octave?

Re: Tuning Simulator
Robert Scott #2569828 09/09/16 10:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 356
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 356
The latest version, posted today, has a new menu item under "Tools" called "Detune per PTG exam specs". This detunes the tuning using the same offsets they use when preparing a piano for an exam, with alternating plus and minus offsets of various sizes. Here is the link again:

Piano Tuning Simulator


Robert Scott
Hopkins, Minnesota
http://www.tunelab-world.com
Re: Tuning Simulator
Robert Scott #2570204 09/10/16 04:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Robert,

I´ve been playing with the simulator. Great program.

I have a little trouble with the polyphonie of the program. As I want to compare the beat rates of two intervals, say F3A3 and A3C#4.

I click on F3, then A3, then I press space bar repeatedly to hear F3A3, once I have a fair estimate of its betarate I click on C#4, but I hear the 3 notes F3 A3 and C#4.

Isn´t it a good idea to limit the polyphonie to 2 notes?

You have already done this with the use of the right and left arrow keys to play chromatic intervals, when you press the key the sound of the previous interval stops and the next interval is heared.




Re: Tuning Simulator
Robert Scott #2570855 09/13/16 06:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,930
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,930
I tried to run it on my desktop PC, but got "Missing registry entry for location of the WAV files. Unable to run Piano Tuning Simulator" frown

I have Windows 10 Pro running on a custom-built PC, with an i7-4790K, 32GB RAM, 3x 4TB HDDs, 256GB SSD, integrated graphics, etc. Haven't tried it yet on my laptop. (It's a Clevo P750DM-G, with an i3-6100, 8GB RAM, 250GB SSD, 2TB HDD, GTX 970M, etc.) Both have 1080p displays.

When installing PTS on the desktop, I used the ultra advanced options, noted that it wanted to put the wave files in a location that doesn't exist on this computer / operating system, so moved it somewhere else. If I knew where the registry entry was that is supposed to point the program to the WAV files, I'd regedit & fix it myself.

Also, for when I'm done with it, what's the recommended procedure for uninstalling it?

Last edited by 88Key_PianoPlayer; 09/13/16 06:40 AM.

Associate Member - Piano Technicians Guild
1950 (#144211) Baldwin Hamilton
1956 (#167714) Baldwin Hamilton
You can right-click my avatar for an option to view a larger version.
Re: Tuning Simulator
88Key_PianoPlayer #2570874 09/13/16 08:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 356
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 356
Originally Posted by 88Key_PianoPlayer
I tried to run it on my desktop PC, but got "Missing registry entry for location of the WAV files. Unable to run Piano Tuning Simulator" frown

When installing PTS on the desktop, I used the ultra advanced options, noted that it wanted to put the wave files in a location that doesn't exist on this computer / operating system, so moved it somewhere else. If I knew where the registry entry was that is supposed to point the program to the WAV files, I'd regedit & fix it myself.

The registry entry is HKey Current User/Software/Piano Tuning Simulator/TunDir. By default this entry is set to a new folder called "Piano Tuning Simulator" under your user's Documents folder. If you installed this while logged in as one user and tried to run it while logged in as another user, that might be a problem. I am considering changing this to point to the "Users/Public/Public Documents" so that it would not matter which user logs in to run the app.

Quote

Also, for when I'm done with it, what's the recommended procedure for uninstalling it?

It is registered for uninstalling just like most apps. If you go to "add/remove programs" in your control panel, it should be listed there as "Piano Tuning Simulator".


Robert Scott
Hopkins, Minnesota
http://www.tunelab-world.com
Re: Tuning Simulator
Robert Scott #2572493 09/19/16 06:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 212
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 212
I'm really enjoying the program so far, it's helping me develop my ear for P5, P4ths, which I struggled with. I would recommend that the pitches be detuned and randomized every time you start the application because it's becoming predictable now.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Where Did The Buttons Go?!
----------------------
Our April 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
The Piano World During the Pandemic!
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Peter Martin plays Stevie Wonder
by Simon_b - 07/15/20 07:34 AM
Scarlatti Themed Recital ready for listening!
by Sam S - 07/15/20 07:08 AM
Scarlatti Recital ready for listening!
by Sam S - 07/15/20 07:07 AM
30 days until Recital #59!
by Sam S - 07/15/20 07:04 AM
Kawai announces DG30 digital grand piano
by Kawai James - 07/15/20 06:01 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics200,267
Posts2,980,855
Members97,771
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4