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Re: Does Shigeru Kawai compare with the top German pianos? [Re: tuner2] #1385716
03/01/10 05:06 PM
03/01/10 05:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 805
Sarasota and Naples, FL
Nick Mauel Offline
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Sarasota and Naples, FL
As a technician I can get a good idea of what the piano is like from the recordings - especially when I listen for certain things in certain registers of the piano. But I don't want to debate the subject of how the Shigeru compares in case you were asking me. Everyone should form their own opinions, and I think the recordings are somewhat useful for this purpose. It's obviously a world class piano.


Nick's Piano Showroom
Naples, Fort Myers, & Sarasota, FL
New Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Baldwin, Brodmann & Ritmuller
239-206-4541 direct line
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Re: Does Shigeru Kawai compare with the top German pianos? [Re: Nick Mauel] #1385734
03/01/10 05:28 PM
03/01/10 05:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,433
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Quote
I think this is great, but as you know piano buying is often a family decision or committee decision including people who do not play.

This is much easier to do after spending a lifetime with pianos, but we work at creating an environment where this will happen.


Very true.

As pointed out the *success of a line* as a commerical product is supposed to be the measuring stick for 'rating pianos', but I am not so sure of this myself.

During my travels I have seen some pretty incredible pianos such as Pfeiffers,Feurichs and Thuermers [Bochum], none of them were widely known manufacturers.

Yet these companies were hugely successful in that they were building first rate quality selling all they are/were making.

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 03/01/10 05:34 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
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Re: Does Shigeru Kawai compare with the top German pianos? [Re: gurugeek] #1387034
03/03/10 04:50 AM
03/03/10 04:50 AM
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rXd Offline
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[quote=gurugeek]Hello David,
You might be interested in a sound comparison (not ideal on you tube but)
Bösendorfer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaX1j4elJRU
Shigeru Kawai: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRdYnsJ8wkw

It really intrigues me, Here are two vastly different tone qualities...I wonder which of these two clips is the favourite among pianoworld posters.

Can we vote on it?



Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.


Re: Does Shigeru Kawai compare with the top German pianos? [Re: rXd] #1387043
03/03/10 05:44 AM
03/03/10 05:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,031
Belgium
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schwammerl Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,031
Belgium
rxd,

Apart from the fact that these are YouTube video recordings, I think the question cannot be answered as the pianists are not the same.

schwammerl.

Re: Does Shigeru Kawai compare with the top German pianos? [Re: schwammerl] #1387051
03/03/10 06:40 AM
03/03/10 06:40 AM
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rXd Offline
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Schwamerl, Thank you for helping me clarify my question. I am aware of the differences you point out , that's why I kept my question simple, They are vastly different tone qualities. I am not interested in manufacturer, age of piano, (the Bosendorfer looksand sounds to be quite old) although I am aware that there will be a lot read into any results.... come to think of it, Any results can and will be used as ammunition by those with an axe to grind. That possibility was farthest from my mind. Perhaps two different anonymous recordings might be better.

I heard Valentina play many times over the week of a competition some years ago when I was working on an international piano competition and she impressed me as having a most varied tonal pallette. This recording does not do her, nor Bosendorfer pianos in general, justice and the Kawai seems too closely miked
The recording techniques, if any technique was used, on both recordings are also vastly different.

Nevertheless, It still intrigues me what kind of tone quality is currently preferred here. I am aware intimately with the tastes of concert audiences and players, What are piano buyers prefering?

It seems we still have the basic difference that we had over a hundred years go, the lite 'n' brite Viennese based sound versus the heavier sound.



Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.


Re: Does Shigeru Kawai compare with the top German pianos? [Re: DavidNYNY] #2561957
08/09/16 12:46 AM
08/09/16 12:46 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 123
Indonesia
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tirta Offline
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Indonesia
This thread is from 5 years ago.
So how about now?

How Shigeru Kawai compare with the top german pianos today?

Re: Does Shigeru Kawai compare with the top German pianos? [Re: DavidNYNY] #2561969
08/09/16 01:58 AM
08/09/16 01:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 564
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slobajudge Online content
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 564
I think that Shigeru today is among the best (technically speaking), differences from german pianos comes to personal preferences about touch and tone. For me, Shigeru sings from low end to half middle, but I dont like the sound from middle to top end. It is too sterile. I still prefer the sound of Steinway D in concert grands, but not in the smaller size grands. There is something in Grotrian 192 cabinet that put a smile on my face every time I hear it.

Re: Does Shigeru Kawai compare with the top German pianos? [Re: DavidNYNY] #2562189
08/10/16 10:55 AM
08/10/16 10:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 916
Germany
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Hendrik42 Offline
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Germany
Well, compared to five years ago, unfortunately, some of the top German piano vendors are no longer (fully) German. They have tried to lower cost/prices while maintaining quality. Or introduced middle tier versions of their instruments. Do you realte to any of that?

Or is the question if Shigeru Kawai have improved in the last 5 years?

I was at the local Kawai dealer recently, he had a new non-Shigeru Kawai baby grand with ABS Carbon action, the latest tech in the smallest grand (with the smallest price). Very nice instrument. The Shigeru are still a league above, though, I think.


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: Does Shigeru Kawai compare with the top German pianos? [Re: DavidNYNY] #2562260
08/10/16 06:21 PM
08/10/16 06:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,433
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Quote
Well, compared to five years ago, unfortunately, some of the top German piano vendors are no longer (fully) German. They have tried to lower cost/prices while maintaining quality. Or introduced middle tier versions of their instruments.


Unfortunately this is true for about 70% of the makers.

In our own experience it was mostly Estonia that got compared to Shigeru.

If and when Estonia won out it was mostly for its romantic and highly resonant tone. The appeal of a European, handmade piano was another.
On the other hand, Shigeru has other qualities some people may prefer. Very nice piano, like it myself!
We always respected Shigeru and told our customers this.

Recently we sold a new Estonia to an Edmonton customer who had extensively shopped in all the city's stores. And of course one always hears back. Unfortunately some of them see fit to denigrate other dealers and their makes. One particular dealer of prominent make chose to do so as has done several times before..

This was not true for the city's largest, the Yamaha dealer.
Mutual respect is still best way to go: vive le choice!

"Thanks John"

Norbert thumb

Last edited by Norbert; 08/10/16 06:27 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Does Shigeru Kawai compare with the top German pianos? [Re: DavidNYNY] #2564398
08/19/16 09:30 PM
08/19/16 09:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 250
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Corvus Offline
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I have played about a dozen Shigeru Kawais in piano showrooms over the last four years. I really liked them all. The Steinways I played were much more variable. I can only evaluate them as I found them on the dealer floors, and under those conditions, I preferred the Shigerus. I've played them side by side with Faziolis. They are certainly different than Faziolis, but I did not feel like one was clearly superior to the other.

Re: Does Shigeru Kawai compare with the top German pianos? [Re: Louis H. Bousquet] #2565135
08/22/16 08:34 PM
08/22/16 08:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 377
Florida, Connecticut
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Florida, Connecticut
Louis, Youtube has a lot of piano factory tours that show how each house approaches tone, construction and general design sensibilities. Kawai, Bechstein, Grotian, Fazioli and many others are represented. The most interesting difference is how much technology each company incorporates into their top end instruments. The German firms are incredibly organized, Fazioli is probably the most traditional, and listening to Kawai is an education in Japanese aesthetics.


Seiler 206, Chickering 145, Estey 2 manual reed organ, Fudge clavichord, Zuckerman single harpsichord, Technics P-30, Roland RD-100.
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