Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Grade 8 from scratch in one year

Sorry, but no. There is this fad on the Internet to believe that everything is just a matter of the raw number of hours you practice but that is simply not the case. The brain also needs some time for all this to sink in and this is partly done during sleep. In 6 years you get almost 2200 nights of sleep while a year only gives you 365. But when you practice more intensively you should also have more lessons with your teacher so that you don't go off too much on your own without direction (everyone here agrees that this leads to disaster). Well, it so happens that one week is usually a convenient interval and for most people that means about 10-15 hours of self-practice between lessons. Maybe 20 if you're very ambitious. If you're doing 40 you should definitely check up with your teacher twice a week.

But all these theoretical calculations are misguided. What counts is the effect. I think you're doing yourself a disservice by cramming so much. From your videos your technique obviously needs some work and this will only get worse if you practice many hours without a teacher by your side correcting you. Your musicality also needs improvement. You shouldn't move on as soon as you master the notes of a piece. You should work it until you can really play it musically. If you want to go "faster" (in the sense of cramming in more material) you should do more pieces in parallel but keep them for longer rather than moving on from a piece after a week on it.

Tonedeef,

I fully respect the skill of fly fishing. Sorry, I didn't mean for the question to sound demeaning. I know it takes years and years of practice and patience to hone the skill. I understand that the creation of the flies themselves is a great art.

I just always thought it was a skill that was passed down from generation to generation. Now that you explain it's the instructors who take exams, that makes sense.

Now fly-fishing - I bet you can't go from scratch to Grade 8 in one year, even if you're as talented as Leo-Bailey Yang.

Points well taken. But it's really interesting to see his result. So much to learn,

There are a million zillion more important things in life than fly casting. With this in mind I would have to be a complete twit to take any offence from someone asking questions about it. As for demeaning? I never considered your question in any way demeaning. If you wish to learn and ever find yourself in the North West of England then please look me up and the tuition will be for free.

This topic speaks to a goal of mine, which is to learn more efficiently (gets more and more important, when you're getting older and realizing that time is not infinite).

I have been reading the responses for a couple of days, and feeling some emotional responses to just about everything that has been said. At some point the critical thinking will have to kick in – but this is a hot topic for me, and, it seems, just about everyone.

I read some of the OP’s website, and let’s just say that I’m feeling a little jealous that he has such an interesting year ahead of him! I read it as a vote of confidence in the arts that he would pick the piano as the means to experience intense learning. Certainly there are some parts of the plan that seem more grounded than others, and perhaps part of the process he is after may require sorting out the parts of the plan that work and the parts that need further thinking. But it is all heart, and I admire it.

To be honest – I see the 1 year deadline as a bit of a red herring. It may or may not happen, but I think someone pointed out that if this process really works, and gives the OP the bigger result he is looking for – skills that transcend an academic education – the deadline, met or missed, won’t mean that much. It gives a bit of a thrill, I suppose. There may indeed be a built in conflict between the deadline and the OP’s comments on his website about what he’s trying to accomplish in terms of deep learning. But again, what’s a plan except something to revise!

I was interested to read the OP’s comments – I’m going to paraphrase here a bit – that this is a plan to learn “tangible” skills, contrasting that with whatever happens, or doesn’t happen, in higher education. I suppose I thought in those words when I was in my 20s also. 30 years on, I see those concepts merging. What I look for in a colleague or a new hire is the ability (and desire) to learn, the curiosity, the determination, the refusal to give up, the ability to change. I think you can practice those habits anywhere – at work, in academia, and certainly in piano – but I think of those less as skills and more as habits or tools that result from putting yourself in the way of lifelong learning, and can be applied anywhere.

I think it's fine to have goals, even if they are unrealistic as I believe this one is. But as long as the OP is willing to adjust his goals according to his actual progress.

Sometimes when setting goals in a new venture, we don't know enough to really know what's realistic and possible. I do this, and I think we all do - even if it's something like trying a piece that's way beyond your current capabilities.

The important thing is to not get frustrated or give up when it becomes clear that we won't reach it in time. Life happens, or we come to realize what is really entailed in the goal we seek. So at that time, you adjust your timetable based on your actual experience and not theoretical knowledge as when you started.

From watching the latest video available, I see there's a lot of tension in the playing. This is fine for what's being played now, but it is what is to be expected from someone who has only touched the piano for a few months. There is not a comfort level that comes with time. And "time" playing piano is not measured in hours, but consecutive days, weeks, and months.

I emphasize this because there is only so much learning that will occur in a day's time. If you are able to maximize that time with efficient practice, then that will be the best you can hope for. But that efficient practice must be done over a long period, weeks, months, years, because each day is built upon the previous day's work. Efficient practice does not necessarily mean more hours - even Chopin did not recommend his students practice for more than 3 hours:



Note that in the above quote, he is referring to advanced students. The OP is not advanced, and so his music does not require the kind of detail work that an advanced piece of music that is 8 pages long requires. So all of this extra time he is spending is going to waste.

What can he be possibly be doing for all that time on pieces like the simplified version of The Entertainer, except for lots of repetition? Even 1 hour on a piece like that is too long. At some point long before those hours are completed learning has stopped. Any moment beyond that is gratuitous.

Has anyone here checked out his blog lately? I have to say, while there is much to learn as far as technique, tone, feeling, etc., he has definitely come a long way in just over six months!

I have.

Morodiene pointed out the tension in his hands. By watching his last video you can see he hasn't fixed that yet and now he is apparently developing RSI. He does need rest but more importantly he must get rid of all that tension.

Yeah I wish the guy well but this seems like a recipe for injury if I've ever seen one. Simply taking a break is doubtfully enough. If and when the project is resumed if a more appropriate pace isn't taken he's at risk of permanent damage.

It's a noble endeavor to learn new things, to strive to achieve in an area at a high level. BUT...but here the original poster is, at the six month mark, flirting with being burned out mentally and injured. The goal--reach grade 8 proficiency--is fine, the timetable--one year--is more than ambitious, even when you have all day to practice. It's not a race and it's more than the hours per day.




Thomas, take the time off you need to let your hands heal and let your head recover from the grind. Then, head back to the piano and take it at it's own good time. Piano is for a lifetime. Don't neglect to let the joy in.

Nice to read about a fellow fly fishing pianist
Although I do like the idea of being able to play Grade 8 pieces straight away I think that it's in a sense like fly fishing, love the journey and the time spend playing/fishing, not the goal.

I just finished reading Thomas's updates on his blog - very honest self evaluation, and I salute it! Hang in there, the RSI will certainly get better with time off, and I think you are on the right path toward, as wimpiano just said, finding the enjoyment in the journey.

I wonder whether accelerated learning can co-exist with enjoyment. If acceleration means taking off the brakes, so the learner progresses at a natural speed rather than an artificially slow one, maybe so. Perhaps the test is whether the acceleration leads to more enjoyment or not. If yes, put on all speed and carry on. If not, find the right speed.

That might work, if put together with a good comment that someone made - could be on another thread, or could be on "The Musician's Way" - that appropriate challenges probably lead to growth, inappropriate challenges (ie, too hard too fast) may (don't have to, but the probability is high) lead to the development of bad habits, crutches, whatever you want to call it, in order to survive.

There may be a lesson there for most of education - we push the kids so hard, so early - and they may grow, or they may shut down thinking in order to struggle through the skills. I had a chance conversation the other day with a math student (college age, math major, who hated math in school but loved math competitions) who was surprised to hear that "back in my day" (early 70s) we learned multiplication tables in 5th grade rather than today's standard 2nd or 3rd. 45 years later, I truly don't think it hurt my math at all, and I get paid these days to do practical applied math (risk management) all day. Just different times, but different, not neccessarily better.

I thought accelerated learning means an artificially boosted one - i.e. push forward at all costs, regardless of consequences.....

Great if you're talking something that's totally mental, rather than physical - like learning a new language. The fastest way to learn a new language, as many language students will know, is to stay in the country where that language (and only that language) is spoken, and attend classes day & night. Speak, breathe, think and dream in that language.

Playing the piano is totally different......

The reason why kids in some other parts of the world progress so much faster - especially in math - is because they are continually pushed. And all kids are expected to do their best, and teachers make sure everyone keeps up with everyone else.

BTW, the Chinese model of math education is about to be taken up in a certain Western country, in an effort to combat the deterioration of standards in math (kids of the same age are three years behind their Chinese counterparts).........

Go for it..if this brings you joy then it is half the fuel you will need ...look forward to reading your journey...

Very true. I am certainly not applauding the current US method of teaching math = what I have seen in my kids' text books is a lot of tricks, but not so much understanding.

Such a shame - what I remember from my long string of outstanding math teachers (had to grow up to realize how lucky I was) was always a sense of "you are ready to understand this, so I'm putting it in front of you now", and then a series of drills, explanations, and question/answer sessions that would lead the student to "getting it" and enjoying it. We were a little ahead - in middle school, there was a group of about 20 of us, in a class of around 150, who were just put into the next grade's math classes, and then, the last year in the school, we were brought together into a special class - but it wasn't off the charts stuff, and I actually don't think any of us thought of it in terms of "pushing", even though I suppose it was. The thing I remember was really enjoying the whole process of learning and using math, and that enjoyment has stayed with me. I wish my kids enjoyed math as much as I do - unfortunately, they got the pushing, but not the process of "let's understand this, and enjoy the process of figuring it out".

Trying to bring it back to piano (sorry - went way off on a tangent there), the process of setting challenges and meeting them has been really central to me sticking with lessons this time around. And here too, what has really helped is to have a teacher who thinks in terms of "what are you ready to tackle right now, and what should I put in front of you", which is a good antidote to my thoughts of "I have spent a month on this piece and it's not done yet", a bad habit I am trying to break.

Hi guys, I too applaud Thomascardings efforts but I also think he is too ambitious. I did zero to grade 5 in14 months and ended up practicing 4 to 5 hours per day whilst working full time. It became a horrible nightmare and totally shattered my motivation. I spent the next 10 years away from the piano which has been such a shame. I did pass the exam with a merit which wasn't bad I guess. I really hope Thomas is able to hold onto his enthusiasm for piano after this project is over and that he eventually succeeds with grade 8.

goodness... still a good effort zero -5 in 14 months....

How did you make it possible?
You did good but I wouldn't be happy without a Distinction and at least 140. That would mean that I really have passed the Grade, especially after working so hard.

I ended up like Thomas...

I think my teacher has pushed me too much and I decided to take on the challenge instead of realising it was too much of a risk, both physically and mentally. I was supposed to play at least 1 Chopin Nocturne in my 2nd year.

How did I do it? Basically getting up early and going to bed late 24/7😬 When I went for the exam I was petrified and the tension noted by Morodiene above was in full swing. The examiner was a woman younger than myself but to me she seemed like a fierce judgemental witch😱 The whole point of the grades is to build up skill, technique and musicianship slowly laying down solid foundations in theory and practice. In all these discussions I must say the tortoise and the hare come most readily to mind.

When I was a student (from age 10 to 20), I wasn't in a hurry. And none of my three teachers during the time when I was doing ABRSM grade exams were in a hurry either. It was simply one grade a year, with plenty of time to assimilate lots of repertoire in between.

None of them ever mentioned the possibility of skipping grades. They realised I was a mediocre student. Enthusiastic, but mediocre, and no talent to speak of . I absorbed a lot of classical music (while also dabbling in improvisation on pop tunes on the side, purely for my own amusement), including learning a lot of pieces by myself, which I never told my teachers about. I likened it to reading Enid Blyton and Capt. W. E. Johns under the bedclothes while also studying Charles Dickens and James Joyce with my English teacher .

Improvement was slow but steady. Suddenly, I woke up one morning to find that I could play pieces like Chopin's 'Revolutionary' Etude and 'Heroic' Polonaise properly (i.e. all the right notes in the right order at the right speed with the right expression - better than Eric Morecambe ever managed, I believe ). Mr Preview would have been amazed. Actually, my first two teachers would probably have been amazed too, that such an untalented kid ever managed to get beyond Grade 5, let alone a performance diploma.......

And I never got injured, or burnt out - in fact, my love for music and playing the piano grew and grew all those years, and to this day.