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Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
#2556406 07/13/16 09:29 AM
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I recently received a CS11. Maybe it's in my head, but it does not seem to sound as good as it did in store when I tried it. The sound feels a bit "thin" with quite a bit of mid-range. I guess the lower-end of the sound is supposed to be produced by the soundboard+cabinet. Hence my question here.

When the piano is playing (e.g. a demo song) and I pass my hand on the soundboard, I can hardly feel any "vibrations".
In addition, below the keyboard itself there is what looks like a speaker grid - and I would think it's to let the sound from the soundboard propagate? But no sound comes out of it - even when I get my head very close, I can't hear a thing.

The volume on the piano is at around 40% ("11am" I guess). I can't get much higher since I am in a flat.

Does the volume need to be higher than this for the soundboard to actually produce sound?

Have other CS10/11 owners been confronted to something like this?

Thanks!

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Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
PJCa #2556521 07/13/16 08:48 PM
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Hello PJCa,

You mention that the CS11 is placed in a flat. I wonder if the room that the instrument is placed is influencing the sound produced? How does you your room compare with that of the piano showroom in the store? Could you perhaps post a photo of the CS11 in your room, please?

Aside from this, I would recommend enabling the Wall EQ setting (p.71 of the owner's manual).

Originally Posted by PJCa
In addition, below the keyboard itself there is what looks like a speaker grid - and I would think it's to let the sound from the soundboard propagate?


Yes, this is to allow the soundboard speaker sound to propagate from both the rear and front of the instrument. I raised your comment with one of the speaker engineers here, and he suggested that this may be the result of the other speakers 'masking' the sound, but that the soundboard would definitely still be contributing to the instrument's output.

Originally Posted by PJCa
The volume on the piano is at around 40% ("11am" I guess). I can't get much higher since I am in a flat.

Does the volume need to be higher than this for the soundboard to actually produce sound?


The soundboard speaker should still be utilised at lower volume levels, however its perhaps true that it's most beneficial when played at louder volumes. If this is not possible due to your location, I would recommend selecting the 'Loudness' Tone Control setting (p.67 of the owner's manual), which should "emphasise frequencies to retain the instrument’s sound character when playing at low volume levels."

I have some other queries, but will ask these via a PM.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
Kawai James #2556656 07/14/16 02:48 PM
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Thank you so much James for your help.

In both the store and my room the piano is next to a wall. But I had indeed set the Wall EQ setting to "on" (both in store and at home).

Regarding the front speaker grill: I literally stuck my right hear to the grill and blocked my left one... I could hear "something" but it certainly was not loud (with a volume at 40%).

I have followed up with you by DM to answer your specific questions.


Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
PJCa #2556713 07/14/16 09:55 PM
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Thank you PJCa, I have just responded to your PM.

One further suggestion: it may be worthwhile contacting the store to check whether or not the sales team made any adjustments to the settings of their floor model, and then saved them as the default settings.

If so, it should be possible for the dealer to save the 'Startup Settings' to USB memory, email them to you, and for the settings to be re-loaded onto your CS11.

If not, I would recommend explaining the situation to your dealer to request their direct assistance.

I have forwarded this thread and our PM correspondence to my colleagues, so will let you know if I receive any further suggestions.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
PJCa #2556983 07/16/16 10:17 AM
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I tested my CA97 by putting one hand on the soundboard while a demo song (SK-5) was playing. Volume set close to minimum at the first dot. I was able to clearly feel the vibrations.

Could it be a problem with the transducer?


Mark

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Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
f3r #2557209 07/17/16 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by f3r
I tested my CA97 by putting one hand on the soundboard while a demo song (SK-5) was playing. Volume set close to minimum at the first dot. I was able to clearly feel the vibrations.

Could it be a problem with the transducer?


Same here. No problems feeling the vibrations here either, not even at very low levels. And with the volume turned up to 11, there is no doubt that the soundboard vibrates.

Generally I find the piano quite rich sounding, even at low levels.

Last edited by Morty; 07/17/16 04:14 PM.

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Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
PJCa #2557234 07/17/16 06:49 PM
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PMFJI --

Before saying "Something is wrong - the bass is weak!", you should read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves


Your ear's response to bass frequencies' amplitude is _very_ non-linear. You _cannot_ judge the relative strength of bass and treble, accurately, if the volume is turned down.

Turn the volume up until you're at "live grand piano" levels (between 3/4 and full volume, for most DP's), and _then_ see how much sound is coming from the soundboard.



. Charles
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PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq
Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
PJCa #2557389 07/18/16 04:18 PM
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For what it is worth, Kawai released a firmware update for this piano just in past week or so.

Partly stating "this v1.09 update also improves the EQ setting and overall volume of the speaker system, and is therefore strongly recommended."

http://www.kawai-global.com/news/cs11cs8-ca97ca67-digital-piano-software-update-v1-09-released/

Can't hurt.

Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
PJCa #2557400 07/18/16 05:40 PM
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Thanks to all of you guys for your help and input.

A Kawai technician came and checked the piano. It is a hardware problem with the soundboard's amplifier.

Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
iceryan #2557429 07/18/16 09:26 PM
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iceryan, thank you for your post.

Yes, it's true that Kawai Japan recently issued a software update for the CS11/CS8 and CA97/CA67. However, as noted at the page above, the improvements to the speaker EQ and volume are only applicable to the CS8 model, not the CS11. The update also resolves a UI issue regarding the User EQ function, whereby the Mid-Low and Mid-High frequency ranges could be set to a broader range than was actually controllable. But again, this only relates to the display - the sound produced by the instrument itself is not affected.

I actually asked PJCa to check the software version of his CS11 via PM, but this was before I learned that the forthcoming update (which at that time had yet to be officially issued by R&D) did not affect the sound of the CS11 - only the CS8.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
PJCa #2557431 07/18/16 09:28 PM
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Hello PJCa,

Originally Posted by PJCa
A Kawai technician came and checked the piano. It is a hardware problem with the soundboard's amplifier.


Thank you for the update. It's obviously disappointing to learn that the instrument's amp was faulty, however I'm glad that the source of the issue has been found. Fingers crossed a replacement amp can be ordered and installed promptly, allowing you to enjoy the CS11 as intended.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
PJCa #2557454 07/19/16 03:47 AM
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I meant to add: Kawai service has been very, very impressive. Between Kawai James here and a person at Kawai UK, I received a lot of prompt support.
They even managed to get a technician to check the piano during the week-end.

Kudos to Kawai.

Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
iceryan #2557500 07/19/16 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by iceryan
For what it is worth, Kawai released a firmware update for this piano just in past week or so.

Partly stating "this v1.09 update also improves the EQ setting and overall volume of the speaker system, and is therefore strongly recommended."

http://www.kawai-global.com/news/cs11cs8-ca97ca67-digital-piano-software-update-v1-09-released/

Can't hurt.


Iceryan,

Thank you for posting this software update. I just updated my CA97.

Kawai James, I registered my piano with Kawai. (In fact I have registered three: CN25/CN3I/CA97).
Is there a place to sign up so that I can be advised of a software update release? Also, the Kawai US/Canada website does not show this latest update.

Thank you,

Tom




Kawai NV10
Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
PJCa #2557582 07/19/16 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by PJCa
I meant to add: Kawai service has been very, very impressive. Between Kawai James here and a person at Kawai UK, I received a lot of prompt support.
They even managed to get a technician to check the piano during the week-end.

Kudos to Kawai.


Thank you PJCa, however this is a somewhat bittersweet feeling for us. We're grateful for your positive feedback, but would obviously prefer that the instrument functioned perfectly from the outset.

Again, our apologies for the inconvenience.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
ˆTomLCˆ #2557584 07/19/16 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom LC
Kawai James, I registered my piano with Kawai. (In fact I have registered three: CN25/CN3I/CA97).
Is there a place to sign up so that I can be advised of a software update release?


Thank you for registering your instruments with Kawai America.

Kawai Japan does not currently have an automated system in place to inform customers of software updates, however it's possible to subscribe to an RSS feed of the Kawai-Global.com news page, where information about software updates (and other news) will be posted.

Originally Posted by Tom LC
Also, the Kawai US/Canada website does not show this latest update.


This software update was only issued last Friday, however I shall ask my colleagues at Kawai America to update their website accordingly. Thank you for letting me know.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
PJCa #2557585 07/19/16 06:53 PM
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Hey excited to join the forum, been a reader and since I am on the market to upgrade my learner piano. I decided to join .I am homing in on the kawai cs11..a question: I live New york, and very few dealers have the piano available ..is there slow distribution right now as it is still a new product? Thx


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Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
Kawai James #2557587 07/19/16 07:01 PM
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Thanks James. I will keep up on this forum and probably be fine on the updates. Appreciate your reply.



Kawai NV10
Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
Pianoperformance #2557595 07/19/16 07:30 PM
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Hello Pianoperformance, welcome to the forum.

Originally Posted by Pianoperformance
I am homing in on the kawai cs11..a question: I live New york, and very few dealers have the piano available ..is there slow distribution right now as it is still a new product? Thx


I believe the CS11 in America may have launched a month or two after Europe. However, according to my colleagues in the US, the CS11 is a very popular model, with a number of dealers selling their shipments as soon as the instruments arrive.

If you have not done so already, I would recommend contacting Kawai America directly to enquire into the availability of CS11 models in your area.

Best of luck!

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
PJCa #2557596 07/19/16 07:38 PM
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Thanks James..I tried two dealers, neither is in NY!!, one has it, the other doesn't, but has older c10, which I gather uses the GF Technology...it is gonna be a day trip just to try it! I am surprised it s not as easily accessible or cheaper like the European market though.


Dream came true : playing the piano
Kawai CS11/Yamaha Arius 161
lessons: 150 hours + counting
Re: Question on Kawai CS11's soundboard and sound
PJCa #2557887 07/21/16 02:35 AM
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Looking at the availability of new DP here, it looks to me like there is always a few on the fence for the new model, who will snap up the first shipment(s). It takes a month or three for new models to be available in quantities.

If in that time there is Christmas, well, add an other two months. :-)


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
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