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I am going to be trading in a brand new, in-the-crate (long story) K-600 for another piano (have not selected it yet). I had some troubles with this 2013 K-6, and Kawai is replacing it with a new, unopened K-600.

My - goal - is to wind up with a better piano (better key action, mellower, richer sound, fewer bizarre vibrations) for the least amount of money that I need to "step up" a notch. I was not happy with the K-6 (see above).

To do this in a financially intelligent way, I need to know if the trade-in value that the local piano store is offering me on my K-600, in exchange for another piano, is reasonable.

I know that the salesman holds most of the cards, and I do not like not knowing if a particular deal is a good deal for me, or is a good deal for the salesman.

I would be happy with another upright, perhaps a Yamaha (not a Kawai).

I do not have a trusted adviser to turn to, to explain the situation (the used pianos that I have played and am interested in), and get advice.

Thanks for any thoughts.
Mac

What are they offering for the K-600 ?????

Well...they are offering the "value" that I paid for the original K-6 (8K).

But...all three of the local piano dealers phrased it this way.

The price that I paid for it has nothing at all to do with its current "value", so I guess they are phrasing it that way just to convince me that I am getting a "deal".

So, this makes me think that there is a game being played, in which they do not tell me what is really going on.

I don't see a Piano Buyer SMP for the K600 but the K500 is $12,390. Wonder how much is the invoice price?

If a dealer offers you $9k, could they somehow increase the price of the trade-up by $1k?

Would you sell it privately and do your piano shopping separately?

You're setting yourself up for trouble as obviously done before.
I now won't change your mind but that's the price you'll need to pay when buying 'unopened' in crate.

Good luck!

Norbert

Seems to me that Kawai gave you a "new" piano that they felt was equal in value to the one that was being replaced. Thus - why should they give you a trade allowance that is greater than what you originally paid ? The fact that all three dealers are saying the same thing does seem a little strange. but instead of a "deal" it seems they are simply giving you a fair shake.

Why don't you want to keep the K-600?

And (question to others here) is the K-600 still being built or is it being phased out??

Carey,
No, what I am concered about is the math on the trade-in and move-up.
I do not mind paying some money out of pocket in order to move up to a better piano.
I know that salesmen have to make a profit.
But, I am concerned that the salesman is looking to make an unfair profit in the process.
And concerned that I walk out with a piano that is not actually worth what I paid for it, so that it instantly loses 5K in value the moment it is delivered.

Folks,
I should have provided some details.
The pianos that I have seen so far:
- Yamaha C2 (annum 2000) - The salesman's offer: My in-the-crate k-600 + 7,500 cash USD
- Petrof V (1940) - The salesman's offer: My in-the-crate k-600 + 6,500 cash USD
- Yamaha YUS5 (annum 2009) - The salesman's offer: My in-the-crate k-600 + 5,500 cash USD

I really liked the C2 and YUS5.
Part of the problem is that I told the salesman that my limit was about 3K out of pocket cash, but he ignored that and directed me to pianos well above that.
This feels like a one-sided game, rather than the dealer working with me.

With all due respect to dealers, when you are trading in another piano, new or otherwise, you are always at a disadvantage. And, the salesperson don't care what your budget limit is. They are in business to make a profit, and it they can make their margin and still keep a customer happy, they have done quite well.

In most cases, the profit margin takes precedence over customer satisfaction.

Unfortunately, you are at a disadvantage and at the mercy of the dealer. Whatever you decide to do, I hope you come out of it with a smile on your face, or at least some degree of satisfaction.

Good luck!

Rick

To a previous post - the K600 is not currently available in the US, so no SMP/MSRP is posted.

Thanks very much for the clarification !!!

Two Questions:

1) Do you have physical possession of the new uncrated K-600 piano?? In other words, is it yours to do with as you please (as in sell privately)??

2) What is your preference for the upgrade - another upright or a grand??

Comment: Of course it's a one sided game - just like buying a new or used car !! BUT the bottom line is that YOU are the one in control - not the dealer - because YOU can say no and simply walk away. So I suggest that you hold firm and try to negotiate a deal that you can live with. If the dealer won't budge, be patient. There are plenty (and I mean PLENTY) of other pianos out there if you have the time and patience to find them.

I think it would help to see this from a dealer's perspective.

You need to distinguish the "vale" of the piano to a shopper as opposed to a dealer. A new piano with a selling price of say $10,000 would only be worth about $6000 to a dealer as they can buy pianos at wholesale. The offers you will receive from dealers with reflect this reality.

Economically your best bet is to sell the K-600 on craigslist or through PianoBuyer's classified ads. By selling directed to a shopper you should be able to get a good bit closer to its actual new selling price. You will have to take somewhat less than a local dealer would sell the piano for, as you are not including normal dealer services.

> ) Do you have physical possession of the new uncrated K-600 piano?? In other words, is it yours to do with as you please (as in sell privately)?? smile

Not yet. Working on getting it shipped soon.

> What is your preference for the upgrade - another upright or a grand??

Well...an upright. I do not have a lot of space. And I keep hearing that a grand that is the technical equal of an upright costs more just because it is a grand.

> Comment: Of course it's a one sided game - just like buying a new or used car !! BUT the bottom line is that YOU are the one in control - not the dealer - because YOU can say no and simply walk away. So I suggest that you hold firm and try to negotiate a deal that you can live with. If the dealer won't budge, be patient. There are plenty (and I mean PLENTY) of other pianos out there if you have the time and patience to find them.

Thanks. There is nothing locally on craigslist that is of interest. Still looking.

I so much wish that I could hire an expert to come along with me to look at pianos. An expert who does not charge $200 an hour...and one who could advise me on the spot.

Steve,

Thanks. I understand they need to make a profit. I only want the transaction to be fair.

> Economically your best bet is to sell the K-600 on craigslist or through PianoBuyer's classified ads.

Thanks.

Have you considered looking outside your immediate area (within driving distance)?

My personal tuner/tech only charged me $75 to do a quick evaluation of a grand we purchased for our church. I would hope that you could find someone in your area willing to help you for less than $200. Obviously you need to narrow your search down - and test any instrument yourself before asking expert to evaluate it for you. Of course, if you can find a NEW (or lightly used newer) instrument, that wouldn't be as much of an issue. It might not even be necessary with a lightly used newer Yamaha since their build quality is consistently excellent.

PM,

I still don't understand why you don't want the k-600? It's a good piano in the same league as the YUS5.

Kurt

I am missing the sequence of events of trading in this piano. A few weeks ago, there was a K6, for which advice was sought on whether to trade in for a grand or another upright. Now there is a K600 arriving in a crate, that is not wanted even before being played?

Good point. Why not try the K-600 before trading it in ??

In late June the OP seemed fine with the three year old K6. Pianomise - how did the K-600 enter into the picture????