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I also asked my reparier this. Yamaha doesn't want to do this on purpose, he said.

Last edited by mischeli; 05/18/16 07:40 AM.

There is no science. There is only misery, striving and sacrifice to reach your personal goal. -Eli Mine
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Originally Posted by mischeli
I'll tell you a secret. It's possible by Yamaha to do simple correction to get a much better sound on outputs. to 50% better. I did this and my sound is wide and more "open" and clear. .)


This came up on Youtube a few years ago:

"Getting digital audio from the CP33 was extremely hard & pushed the limit of the available parts, but it's definitely worth it. The sound from the digital intermediate is amazing.

The CP33 outputs very hissy analog, but internally uses 24 bit 44.1khz. The internal signal is not adjusted based on volume, so the amplifier stage takes an extremely faint signal from the DAC for all volume levels.

The digital intermediate contains the entire decay of each note all the way down to 0, with no hissing & barely any quantization noise. There is only a very slight hissing when the envelope is still loud enough to amplify the hissing of the original microphone. The digital output contains harmonics from the original CF-III not audible in the analog output.

It's a shame so many electronic instruments over the last 40 years were professionally recorded from their horrible analog outputs when a pristine digital intermediate was always available, inside the wiring. There was never an easy way to get at the digital intermediate."



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I am a beginner with zero experience, wanting something good to learn on. I typically research a lot in my other hobbies, and there are much more plentiful amount of resources, reviews, and forums (especially forums with much more users). When looking for a DP, there is not much to read on the internet. It's especially more difficult when I have no idea about pianos, what to listen for, and what to feel for. This pianoworld forum seems to be the largest and most current, thus me ending up here. Just like any other forum, I see fanboys and bias, but everyone is always open to their own opinion. Most users usually see through the lines I assume. Similarly, there just aren't that many DP reviews online, although I find the youtube videos pretty helpful.

Before going to a physical store, I narrowed down my selection to Yamaha P115, Casio PX360, Kawai ES100, and Roland FP30. I even thought about going up to the $2000 mark for Kawai ES8 or Roland RP401R.

I contacted azpianonews (I did find his reviews pretty informative, and not too biased), but later noticed that he was a dealer by his response and reading more into the site. He recommended the Kawai or Casio, which his prices were competitive. But overall, I was planning on buying from a safer online source/store, or at a local dealer.

The first store I went to was Guitar Center, which had the Yamaha and Casio. I played a little bit, but no salesman came up to me while I waited, so I left. Next, I went to a Roland dealer. He didn't have the FP30, but had RP-401R and F-130R packages at online competitive prices. He gave me a great demo on it, going into detail just like the youtube videos. It sounded great, and that's why I contemplated the RP401R, which he says it's his best selling package. Although at the beginning, he did say all the pianos under that price point were toys and would hinder my learning experience. Last, I went to a Kawai dealer, and again, didn't have the ES100, but had the CN25 and CN35. She also gave a quick demo, but a very short one, not as detailed, and didn't play as nice as the other person. Both Roland and Kawai sounded and felt great, but the Roland demo was much better. Probably not fair also was that fact the the Roland store space is much smaller than the larger Kawai space, so the sound was an uneven match. So as a first time buyer, the sales person had a huge influence on my decision towards Roland.

So I ended up ordering the FP30 online, and it is coming by the end of the week!

In the end, especially with virgin ears and hands, I'm sure any choice would have been great. I'm just excited to start learning on something other than an iPad virtual keyboard.

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Originally Posted by yellojello
. . .

So I ended up ordering the FP30 online, and it is coming by the end of the week!

In the end, especially with virgin ears and hands, I'm sure any choice would have been great. I'm just excited to start learning on something other than an iPad virtual keyboard.


You did reasonable research, and you were willing to spend enough money to avoid "toys". Any one of your original candidates would have been OK. The FP-30 should do just fine.

Have fun -- you'll be at the "Adult Beginners" forum, next.



. Charles
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something like that or not...

I'm inspired to share this with you, guys:



Keep in mind that sampling rate was 16 bit / 44,1 kHz here!

Last edited by mischeli; 05/19/16 05:08 AM.

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What's the point? That single layer sample will never sound like real piano.


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So, we need a Roland and Casio fan boys urgent to complete the team...!.

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Originally Posted by Fer De Armas
So, we need a Roland and Casio fan boys urgent to complete the team...!.

There is, of course, another alternative...

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Hello everybody. I’m joining this conversation a little late. Is this thread just relegated to the <$1000 price range? There are many other factors that can weigh into why one digital piano would be recommended over another such as recording software, professional or amateur usage, accessing other instrumental sounds etc.

If below $1000 is desired then the Yamaha DGX650WH is my recommendation. If going slightly over the $1000 mark is ok then KORG SV188BK or the Roland RD-300NX would be my recommendations.

I hope that helps. Let me know if anyone wants more information.

Best regards :-)

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Apparently the dgx isn't as good as the es100 or fp30 at being a realistic piano, but it does have more sounds and rhythms.
Do you have any experience of the 2 I mentioned?

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Originally Posted by Dragon Piano
Hello everybody. I’m joining this conversation a little late. Is this thread just relegated to the <$1000 price range?


To avoid confusion and "thread drift", that's been its focus. Daniel did a good start, with a reasonably objective comparison of what was available when the thread started. There have been a few new models, since then.

There are lots of other threads, with different interests. A "DP's under $2000" thread might be worth starting.

Yes, a person's choice depends on a person's needs. We all understand that, and try to balance out the conflicting features (and benefits, and costs) of the alternatives.



. Charles
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Hi, I am trying to decide between Roland FP30 and KAWAI ES100...

Roland fp30 has a lot of advantages (more volume power, better reseller in my country, a little cheaper, more beautiful, newer model, higher resell value), but I like the es100 sound and touch.

The problem is this: I am used to play on an old casio crappy keyboard, for the last 30 years. So I dont know if the lighter Kawai touch that I like is because I am used to a bad touch (the very light casio organ).

It is suppose to be better having a heavier touch (roland)? The 3rd sensor is really worth it?

Thanks!
Mark

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Originally Posted by Marcos X
Hi, I am trying to decide between Roland FP30 and KAWAI ES100...

Roland fp30 has a lot of advantages (more volume power, better reseller in my country, a little cheaper, more beautiful, newer model, higher resell value), but I like the es100 sound and touch.

The problem is this: I am used to play on an old casio crappy keyboard, for the last 30 years. So I dont know if the lighter Kawai touch that I like is because I am used to a bad touch (the very light casio organ).

It is suppose to be better having a heavier touch (roland)? The 3rd sensor is really worth it?

Thanks!
Mark


Play them both. Then make your decision.

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You can adjust the "touch weight and "brilliance" on both the ES-100 and FP-30. Additionally, on the ES-100, you can also adjust the "voicing" (character) of the sound. It might be worth it to download the user manuals and learn how to make those adjustments so you can better compare.


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Hi, as has been said countless times, key action is a very personal and subjective matter; therefore, you should try all your selected choices before you buy if possible... but IMHO, as usual Kawai key actions are more realistic than the competition, in this case, Kawai ES100 key action has a more quicker and realistic grand piano feel compared with the weird, sluggish and heavier Roland FP30 key action; also, this Roland key action has an unpleasant key action upweight, which very quickly fatigue my wrists and hands... of course I must admit that this Roland key action is a new one and has the tri-sensor technology, the same responsive key scanning also present in their top of the line older sisters and a more pronounced let-off effect. Ok... because the final decision, in my case is not taken by the specifications, but rather by how it feels in my hands; for this reason, you should try it by yourself, and finally let
your fingers (and ears) decide for you. Regards!.

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Originally Posted by Groove On
You can adjust the "touch weight and "brilliance" on both the ES-100 and FP-30. Additionally, on the ES-100, you can also adjust the "voicing" (character) of the sound. It might be worth it to download the user manuals and learn how to make those adjustments so you can better compare.


The problem is that the "touch weight" adjustment doesn't affect the keyboard mechanism. It changes the relationship between "key velocity" and "MIDI velocity":

. . . If "touch" is set higher, you must hit the key harder to achieve
. . . a certain volume (and tone quality).

But the "weight of the key" doesn't change.



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I had a $1500 budget and was considering the Casio Privia 860, the Kawaii KDP90 and the Yamaha YDP163. I was unable to audition the Kawaii, but the Casio and Yamaha keyboards felt pretty similar, and I found the Casio's Bechstein grand sampling to be a bit more pleasing to my ears than the Yamaha grand sampling. I also liked that the 860 offers direct to USB stick recording.

The 860 seems very sturdy, but at a considerable discount to the Yamaha, I'm worried it won't wear well. Fingers-crossed it continues to perform like it does now.

Last edited by Steve.L; 08/12/16 05:35 PM.
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I just tried the Casio cpg700. I was surprised at the action.
Been using the 5 s for awhile. I do use a computer for AP but
I found the 700 more playable than the 5. At 700 n change its not
bad at all. Time for the 5 to go me thinks.

People have been mentioning the sturdiness of the Casio's.
I gotta say that Ive been using them, 1st the px3, now the 5
w/a computer, have had weeks where I do up to 9 gigs. Many of them
outside in S Fl, hot..Beat the 3, held up no problems, dragged it
everywhere no problems. The 5 is going thru the same thing..
no problems at all. Now Im looking at the cpg700.
I really think they hold up well and they play nice w/midi.

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I was very fortunate to find a used CPG-700 within driving distance for $475. apart from a light patina of dust it looks brand new. it came with a very nice bench too. my last 'joanna' was some forty years ago; an old, out of tune upright parlour piano complete with candelabras. didn't do so well then, hope to do better this time smile

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I finished updating the list, but I think this is it. The number of models keeps increasing and I don't have access to many of them, nor get enough help (from owners) to get the data I need.

Also, I have less and less free time.

I will try to update the current models, where is incomplete, but I will not longer keep including new models.

So, for now I think is still useful, but in the future is going to get outdated.

Hope was helpful.


Long time piano player, with 7 years experience working in restaurants and doing gigs in random places.

My project: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$

Owner of Kawai ES100
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