Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards NYC SUBWAY-FRIENDLY KEYBOARD WITH DECENT ACTION AND SOUNDS

Although busking is half of the equation, it's not all of it - the other side is real-deal Jazz jam sessions in NYC (Smalls, Fat Cat, Dizzy's, etc.). For that, organ or EP - I don't want to play acoustic piano when there is already a piano player on the tune..

A third possible function is actual gigs - although I have my Casio PX5S for that - but its 24 pounds on a subway, so it would be nice to have something lighter.

Probably any of these boards, including the Roland DS-61, would suffice for busking, with the lightest weight being preferable (for keytar purposes or just holding it in one hand).

As to the Jazz jam sessions (or gigs), I'm thinking the organ on the VR-09 may carry the day.

How good are the organ, piano and EP sounds in the Roland DS-61 and the Korg Kross?

Thanks....

They wouldn't compare with what you can do with the VR-09. They'd be basically static PCM samples of organ tones.

Static, eh? So, it looks like it's the VR-09's drawbars and other real-time manipulation goodies vs. the Korg Kross' 3 pounds lighter weight, many more sounds and multi-track sequencer (not on my "list," but that would be fantastic to have, now that they mention it...).

Here's a lively discussion of these and other "lightweights":

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2720627/1

And, apparently, Korg deems the Kross "NYC Friendly...":

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2...kstation-keyboard-power-starting-at-700/

Always a lively discussion at the KC forums.

Out of the following 3 applications, it looks like the winner is:

BUSKING, NYC SUBWAY SCHLEPPING: Korg Kross (9 pounds!);

NYC JAZZ JAM SESSIONS: ROLAND VR-09 (more dynamics, slightly better keybed);

FOR REAL GIGS: ?????

Any thoughts on the "real gig" differences between the Roland and the Korg?

Thanks....

I think this depends on the gig. It sounds like you're on sax a lot and filling in on the keyboard, usually organ parts. In which case, I'd take the VR-09.

I'm looking to play solo keyboard gigs as well as trio gigs without another keyboard player, in addition to situations where there is another keyboard player.

Are you implying that the Kross organ sucks? Certainly the Roland VR-09 is going to be superior with the drawbars, in any event...

The quality of the sounds between the Kross and the Juno DS are going to be comparable. If you are in the City, you should go do Sam Ash down on 34th Street, as they probably have them both on display. I've never been to the Guitar Center near Times Square, but I would assume they have something on the floor. There's also a GC down in the area of 25th Street I believe. N&H Photo might also have something on the floor.

As I said above, I myself am not a huge Korg fan, and would personally favor the Roland over the Korg. But there are many who love the Korg sound.

The real compromise here is going toe the action. Pretty much any keyboard in this weight and price range is not going to have the best action. Once again, going to actually play these instruments will tell you how you feel about the action, and whether it's something you can live with.

Regarding organ, both of these instruments do not have organ emulation to the degree that the VR-09 does (or the PX-5S, for that matter). You can probably get by with the organ patches, but there are no drawbars, and control over things like chorus/vibrato and percussion are next to nonexistent. The EPs on both are more passable, but you'll need to play with a light touch.

They will work for busking, where the acoustics on the street and in the subway are not stellar.

NYC in a couple of weeks.....; I'm currently still in suburban Detroit, and Guitar Center is on my "to do" list this week - assuming they actually have product on the shelves!

My current busking rig is a controller and Pianoteq, which works pretty well, except for latency. It won't cut it for jam sessions, which I need no latency and more flexibility to change sounds. As far as I can tell, nobody makes an audio ASIO interface (I can't hang with "Asio for All" at all) for a tablet (or that isn't a physical box), where Pianoteq resides.

If I were ONLY busking with this thing, I'd either just keep what I have, or get the Korg. But I need to up the equipment to hang with the excellent cats at those jams.

Weight aside, I'm leaning towards the Roland VR-09 on paper.

Just on the busking, front - I love encountering music in that way.

Sure, you can walk around city centres and there's some mediocre, easy listening stuff, frequently, that I have no personal interest in - but all the same, plenty of others seem to enjoy.

Then there's the times you move around busy cities, through tube stations and are exposed to a variety of different styles, and often quite talented musicians. Even if you don't have time to stop and listen, a brief snippet can be enough to cheer you up, or put a smile on your face on a busy day.

My solution for subway gigs... a small accordion!

Thanks for the positive busking vibes, Lester!

I actually have an accordion.....

I auditioned the Roland VR-09 and the Korg Kross today at GC...

Keybeds: Roland's is solid and quite playable, despite having shorter keys. Korg's is a step down from my Nektar Impact controller, and hard to play at the back. Really just flimsy "on off" levers. Not sure what they were thinking... Both have "diving board" style keys. Waterfall would be much better on either. Both would be better if they went lower than C. F, G or at least A. This would make playing actual piano stuff much hipper.

Sounds: Roland's are quite real-time tweakable with lots of knobs and, of course, drawbars. Only 200 (I need about 10). Korg has 1000 and so many variations that one might not miss being able to tweak them without menu-diving and editing on the small, crowded LCD. Sounds on both boards were excellent, but Roland's are so much more full of life, and the organ is killer, with Leslie controls (even by "D beam...").

Musicality: The Roland is a pro instrument. The Korg feels like an entry level board. I really enjoyed playing the Roland. I enjoyed the Korg's functionality more than it's playing particulars.

NYC Subway Schlepping Quotient: The 9 pound Korg even has a handle! My laptop weighs more than this thing. The 12 pound Roland is also bigger and more substantial (less sleek design) so this is a minus for it. Still, I can hold it in my left hand and play right hand leads. I'm 6'6" and in good shape. YRMV... The Gator case for Roland has backpack straps (so does the Korg's and that set-up will weigh 7 pounds less, including the bag).

DIY Keytar Potential: 9 pounds around the neck beats 12, but both are doable. I'm not sure which one will mind me drilling holes for guitar strap buttons in it more, but the Roland actually has more real estate to festoon a harness to (I'd rather not drill holes in a board, anyway...)

Other goodies: The Korg has a 16 position step sequencer, a full 16 track sequencer, drum tracks that automatically present themselves when "combis" are activated (apparently, layered sounds), lots of usable drum patterns (great for busking), audio recording (but on a SD card, not a USB stick, for some reason...). 6 "AA" batteries to the Roland's 8. The Roland has USB audio PLAY (not record, for some dumb reason), the ability to download more sounds into that USB (Sweetwater sells an entire set of new sounds for $30), a 20 second looper (was making it 120 seconds, and thus actually usable, that difficult, Roland?), more proletariat drum patterns (still quite usable), no automatic drum patterns, apparently less split-layer ability than the Korg (I didn't really get into that...) and a really easy to use interface. Both have individual drum hits. The Roland has many or even all of Roland's famous drum machines sounds.

SUMMARY: The Korg wins on weight, portability, number of sounds, sequencing and drum patterns. The Roland wins on musicality, build quality, keybed, tweakability, individual drum hits and sound quality. If all I did was busk, I'd get the Korg. The Roland is the one I want to hit Dizzy's with (BTW, I actually played with Dizzy! He told me I "played my ass off" (on saxophone). Seriously... How cool is THAT? I'll deal with the extra weight on the Roland for schlep-busk-keytar. That said, I'd like a board with a built-in sequencer. Abelton Live is great, but by the time you get it set up, the inspiration has vanished. I need something immediate.

The Roland will arrive Wednesday.....

Congratulations on making a sound choice! I'm sure you will have many happy hours playing your new Roland.

I just long-over-do gifted myself a Roland VR-700 because of the organ sim, drawbars and Leslie controls, fantastic action with waterfall keys, and fantastic build quality. Everything I needed, nothing I didn't. Very similar to the VR-09... the 09 makes some compromises for low weight but it has a nice little synth engine in there which the 700 hasn't. But you need an iPad to edit it.

Thanks, Rusty Mike!

Elmer, the busking gifted me the VR-09.... That VR-700 looks fantastic, but at 35 pounds, is home or car-schlepping material....

I'm not an "Apple Person," but I've (reluctantly..) concluded that I need an iPad anyway, so I'm shopping for those, too.

For busking - have you considered a basic super-light weight synth controller attached to the iPad (using an app like the Korg module)? And still keep the VR-09 for your other gigs? I saw a busker like that in NYC (Union Square), using an iPhone as the sound module. Really compact.

That's similar to my current set-up, Groove On - although I use a windows tablet to house the VST instruments.

This set-up is OK for busking (wins on portability), but it's difficult to change sounds, there is some latency (I don't know if Apple phones have that problem, but the chance that I'll get an iPhone is zero). I do have excellent VSTs - Pianoteq, Lounge Lizard, etc. I'd like to continue to use them if I can solve the latency problem.

Such a rig is a bit "fiddy" for real-deal Jazz jam sessions, however. Plus, I can logistically take ONE (1) keyboard on NYC public transportation (I'm bringing a tenor saxophone and busking goodies as well...) - so the keyboard has to do "double duty."

That said, I'd probably keep my controller + tablet set-up if all I did was busk. I'm looking to up the performance primarily for the jams.

Great suggestion, though!

Agreed. Part of the success to busking (not that I've done it myself, but I know people who do and have spent more than my fair share of time on the NYC streets and subway), is a simple and light rig.

Skyscrapersax, best of luck to you on this. Let us all know how it goes. If you land in a semipermanent spot let us know. May be I can drop by!