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Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2506111 02/01/16 07:49 AM
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After few hours of practicing, another problem with the c key :-(

https://youtu.be/em4T5uFJF7A
https://youtu.be/QkoLB7PUXOs

Tomas

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Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2506117 02/01/16 08:31 AM
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When I listen to your latest examples, I do not hear anything out of line with normal key noise.

However, that does not mean there is not something amiss there. I just do not hear it.

My suggestion would be for you to go to a local music store, if you have one, and try a few of the digital pianos and test them for key noise. You may find that a little "glitch" here and there is not abnormal.

Good Luck


Don

Casio PX-S1000, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used), Focus Rite Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface, Yamaha MG06 Mixer
Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2506122 02/01/16 09:22 AM
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Can you hear these noises with the piano turned on during normal play? If you could "turn off" an acoustic, i'm sure they would be noisier than this. I don't often play mine with the sound off for obvious reasons, but i'm pretty sure that noise is nothing to be worried about. Kawai actions have much more movement in their parts than other actions, which is what makes them more realistic. Remember there is a proper see saw action wooden key, and a weight being moved to simulate a hammer, as well as a plastic notch to simulate escapement. It is bound to make a little bit of noise.

If you can honestly hear it over your music, then maybe get a technician to see if he can tighten up / lubricate things to lessen it.



Kawai CA97 black

Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
tabber #2506128 02/01/16 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tabber
If you can honestly hear it over your music, then maybe get a technician to see if he can tighten up / lubricate things to lessen it.


Yes, wouldn't that be a nice option.

Unfortunately, when you purchase on-line you frequently remove that as an option.



Don

Casio PX-S1000, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used), Focus Rite Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface, Yamaha MG06 Mixer
Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2506281 02/01/16 04:47 PM
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@dmd.
Before buying CA-67 I have tested several digital pianos, see the link please:

Kawai MP7/ES8/CN 35

Some actions were louder overall, others quieter... However, I have never heard such clicking noises in certain 2-3 keys. Unfortunately, this piano is not available in any local store.

@tabber
For sound levels <3 I can hear the disturbing noises from "clicking" keys, while the current keys are OK. As a Kawai CA-97 owner, may I kindly ask you to test the key sounds if an acoustic part of the piano is turned off? Thanks.

Currently, I sent the video to the professional pianist [acoustic(Steinway) as well as digital (CLP 575)] who confirmed my concerns about the defective keys (his Yamaha has no clicking key)...

Last edited by TomasB; 02/01/16 04:52 PM.
Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2506296 02/01/16 05:09 PM
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Tomas,
How frustrating for you! I feel your pain.

Don't listen to those who say you are too sensitive or that they can't hear the problem. The issue here is that you've paid a lot of money for a 'high end' instrument. What you should expect is that any noise from the key bed is the same across all keys and not loud clicking only coming from certain keys with a nice soft sound coming from others. It also creates a different 'feel' under the fingers as the loud click noise creates a harsh vibration which transmits through the instrument as well. Its hard to relay that with a youtube clip.

The result is very distracting when you are trying to make music and concentrate on your playing.

What is your plan now? Will you risk trying a third Kawai instrument? As mentioned above, after two defective keyboards with the same sounding problem as you, I went with Yamaha and never looked back. Roland would be another option with their recent new models having good reviews.

I'm so disappointed to see this issue is still affecting kawai customers after a new model is released (mine was the CA95). It can't be that hard for the quality control of a big company to fix this problem.

good luck!


Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2506310 02/01/16 06:03 PM
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Thanks for your support. Kawai is well-known as the piano industry leader with probably the most silent key actions in the market... In my opinion, such problems are not acceptable for the top-level instrument (> 2300 E).

The common denominator of all above mentioned problems is the cost-cutting, when the relatively complicated instruments are assembled in South Asia with the lack of traditions of the precision mechanics.

You are right, it is very disturbing when I try to concentrate on my practicing.

I am waiting for the dealer response. Probably, I will ask for the refundation, or choose CLP 575, or buy an acoustic. I am still undecided :-).

Last edited by TomasB; 02/01/16 06:11 PM.
Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
tabber #2506336 02/01/16 07:50 PM
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Hi, for that reason i prefer plastic key actions over wooden key actions. Cheers...!

Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2506426 02/02/16 04:13 AM
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Hello,

I just tried every key on my CA97 and no clicking at all. Maybe it´s a transport issue with the CA 67 and one box was upside down. This is nearly impossible with the CA97 because it´s delivered in one peace (due to the soundboard).

Maybe just one felt is missing? See this picture in the lower right corner.

http://www.musikwerkstatt-rhein-ruhr.de/uploads/RTEmagicC_Filztausch_Klavier.jpg.jpg

Daniel

Last edited by danielp11; 02/02/16 06:10 AM.

KAWAI CS11 (sold KAWAI CA 97), KAWAI GX2 acoustic grand piano (sold SCHIMMEL acoustic upright)
Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2506444 02/02/16 05:32 AM
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i have this also on my mp11, a few notes only.
until i saw this post, i haven't even noticed about it.

to my opinion, this is a minor issue, but still I would expect from Kawai for a better QA

Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2506493 02/02/16 09:24 AM
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I would say that in all 4 video clips the higher frequency click is very audible compared to the rest of the keys.
To get to the root of the problem would be to take the thing apart, examine and analyze the complete mechanism and to see where it's coming from.
That's out of the question of course if it affects the warranty.


Czerny's Piano School Vol. 1, now at #77 and giving it a break.
Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2506504 02/02/16 09:53 AM
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@danielp11
Thanks for your observations and testing. A good comment with the transport issue, it might happened. Analogously, a rough handling without damaging of the exterior package is possible.

In my opinion a construction error together with the lack of QA seem more likely...

@RKP
You are right, the keyboard should be checked and analyzed by the Kawai technician otherwise warranty void.

Last edited by TomasB; 02/02/16 10:41 AM.
Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2507080 02/04/16 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by TomasB

@tabber
For sound levels <3 I can hear the disturbing noises from "clicking" keys, while the current keys are OK. As a Kawai CA-97 owner, may I kindly ask you to test the key sounds if an acoustic part of the piano is turned off? Thanks.


Hi, ok, I tried this last night on my 97 (Sorry it took a few days), and I do indeed have a very quiet clicking sound from C-3 and C-5, but seemingly no other keys. I had honestly never noticed this before in 9 months or so. I can however not hear it at all when playing normally, even at very low volumes.

Clearly we are coming from very different perspectives, but the fact I can't hear it when using the piano as intended means it doesn't bother me that much, and I will try and forget I ever read this post :-) (Does a tree falling in a forest make a noise if no-one is there to hear it), although I will confess it is odd that its only the C keys. Must be a feature of the way the piano is put together in octaves, and some felt, or rail or something, is joining at the C keys ?? I wouldn't say the noise is any louder than the noise of the other keys, its just a different sound. The other keys give a gentle thud, and those two have a slight click added to the noise.

There is a good video on youtube comparing the sound of actions across brands, and Kawais were quite a bit quieter then others. I'll edit this post if I find it. If you are going to change brands, make sure you do a "piano off" test on those before you buy as well. You may find its generally louder anyway.




Kawai CA97 black

Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2508257 02/07/16 03:25 PM
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@tabber

Thank you very much for your comments, experiments and testing.

>> The other keys give a gentle thud, and those two have a slight click added to the noise.

Well said, this is the main problem... Playing my CA-67, the noise is even louder and the click has a different sound (disturbing using pp).

You are right, the Kawai GFII action is one of the quietest in the market. The problem is not the sound overall, but a different level and tone of the click.

I wrote a letter to Kawai Europe and waiting for the response.

Last edited by TomasB; 02/07/16 03:27 PM.
Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2538330 05/10/16 02:54 AM
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@TomasB: Did you receive any reponse from Kawai Europe?

I recently got a brand new CA67. Unfortunately I noticed at least 4 keys that produce similar click effect. It is very annoying during pp parts, or on low volumes. I would expect such high class instrument to have perfectly adjusted keyboard. I called my dealer, they told me it might have happened during transport (some keys left their sockets or similar). A technician is supposed to visit me and try to fix it, but after reading the thread I am a bit worried.

Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2549023 06/13/16 08:13 AM
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Well I have problem with noisy new keyboard in my roland hp 605 and I was considering CA 67 but it seems there is no real alternative. Every damn piano has it's problems frown

Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2549079 06/13/16 12:28 PM
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@Nordomus -

If possible, could you could post a video so we can hear the issue.

Thanks.

Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
Info2011 #2549832 06/16/16 05:18 AM
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I did in the past and I will soon, I've removed previous videos because it seemed like it was faulty keyboard but it seems this is unfortunately again factory issue and stabilizing key contruction or whatever you can call it in english. Some keys after 1 month of new keyboard usage started to make noise when pressed not directly from the top(chords, progressions). It makes plastic sound and you can feel it under your finger smirk

Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
TomasB #2549910 06/16/16 01:35 PM
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Thanks Nordomus.

Sorry to hear that on this very high-end Roland piano there are clicking keys after a month's use!

BTW, please let us know if Roland is addressing the issue and will fix the clicking.

(I'm considering buying a 605.)

Thx.

Re: Kawai CA67, noisy C keys
Info2011 #2549977 06/16/16 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Info2011
Sorry to hear that on this very high-end Roland piano there are clicking keys after a month's use!


Hmm...let's not be too quick to jump to conclusions, based on the experience of just one individual.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
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