Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai VPC or CA67?

Dear friends...

Please help me choose which model to buy as I just recently sold my px-735 which resulted in a deep digital piano depression and a strong need to buy a new one asap...my Kawai acoustic upright does not fill this hole sadly.

Hopefully someone here has experience with the CA67 speakers. Would using the internal speakers for piano VST sound good on it? (planning to use American Concert in D).


Kawai VPC RM3 Grand II: $2200 AUD imported
Kawai CA67 Grand feel II: $3000 AUD

From what I researched...

VPC Pros:
-Has VST touch curves for Ivory II which I desire
-More affordable
-Pure with no excess bells and whistles
Cons:
-Inferior action as the upper keys are heavier. I only play classical so I do spam the upper keys a lot.
-Long delivery time since Australia does not stock the VPC model at all.
-No warranty support

Kawai CA67:
-Superior action
-Cabinet style
-Australian Stock
-5 years warranty
Cons
-Redundant piano sounds
-Unable to use internal speakers (if it does not sound well with VST hopefully someone knows)
-$800 AUD more
-No approved touch curves for Ivory
-I dislike the LCD and buttons, makes it look like a toy

Please provide your personal input guys and also if anyone can comment on using the ca67 internal speakers for VST would be of a huge help in deciding to pick it over the VPC.

I'm also thinking maybe if i should just return to Casio and know my place in society, buy a px-160 with pedals since the Kawais' will be very dear to me cost wise and be done with it lol.

Thanks friends

You said it all, and you also know the answer, just feel it inside. I know that I will go for VPC1 because I strictly want VST pianos and clean looks, but I am not you. But also I am very inpatient when it comes to waiting for something, so if money is not a problem and you dont need portability, if I was you I will go for CA67 because its just there beside you in the store and support is there. Just go and take it (ah, what a relief isn` it)

I think RM3 action (regardless of version) is very sluggish and even unrealistic to some degree. I never learned to cope with it on my CA63 and the plastic RH2 is much better in my opinion. I have only tested GF2 in stores but it's also much better than RM3.

I had a roland Hp207 top of the range home style cabinet piano and soon got tired of the inbuilt sounds.I started using Ivory and others and ended up using seperate speakers on top of the piano just because the built in roland speakers made ivory sound dull and lifeless.
I decided to get a Kawai VPC1 and the difference in improvement was massive.No home style piano IMO will make the VST pianos sound has good has the VPC1 does and I mean the feel of connection between player and sound.

I suppose its mainly personal taste. I tried the GF2 today and i was very impressed. The ca67 was right next to many high end kawai grand pianos and the action of it was spot on. If i was blind folded I wouldn't be able to tell honestly. I did very briefly try the RM3, it felt very similar except that when I moved up on the keys it became sluggish like you described and heavier though one can argue its like an upright piano with a heavy action. Which models uses the plastic RH2, i will definitely check it out. Thanks Cyber.



Thanks for your experience daz, the ivory curves make me lust all over it. Home cabinet pianos certainly do feel like they grow old to me as well while the VPC is just pure action which is improved through the years by sampling technology.



My thoughts exactly...guess I may just cold turkey it and wait for the VPC. ill give it another night to sleep over it. Thanks sloba for your thoughts

Hi, try Kawai CN34 for the RHII key action... IMHO it is the best plastic key action available in the market now, it has the faster key return, the quicker key response, the perfect balance of stiffness and realism, medium downweight and healthy upweight. Is the forum consensus that "...Kawai RHII/RHII are unbeatable for a slab DP". Cheers!.

Thanks Fer De Armas, I tried the newer RHIII at the shops today since they didn't have the older action. I liked it however when I played deep into the upper keys it became sluggish and so failed my test.


I also tried the new Casio Hybrid gp500/gp300 models the other day (thankfully the owner shown me it, at first I scoffed at the idea...) and now that I think about it its spectacular...the action was fluid and also extremely reactive key returns and response. It uses Bechstein real action and I feel it has more potential than Kawai's Grand Feel II for very advance pieces that require blistering trills and passages. It didn't have any escapement so you could really thrash it with trills and tremolos. The action looks much more durable with no rubber parts like the GFII (wears out fast) and I believe has a longer wooden key and pivot when comparing the action demo examples (same length as a real Grand Bechstein). I think price wise it destroys the CA97.

Its priced at:
GP300 $4000 AUD
GP500 $6000 AUD (only difference is its made of ivory and some special sound effects)

So now i am thinking if I'm going to buy a piano controller/DP than I would only have to do it right only once and bite the money bullet on the GP300 or stick to the low end Casio Privia and wait for the magical 'VPC-2' with GFII/GFIII


Heres a promo of the Casio Hybrid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NmvtXWuMx8

"It uses Bechstein real action"

You should look at a photo of the GP300/GP500 action : it is quite different from a real action : no escapement, no repetition lever...



(And I have tried the GP300 and a "real" hybrid - the Yamaha N1 - the feeling was quite different.).

That was the first thing I noticed but there was a reason why they took off the escapement and also a DP has no strings...They did it to exceed the repetition performance of an acoustic piano which goes beyond what Bechstein had to do. There should be a video somewhere showing a robot doing some key repetitions that isn't humanely possible on the GP500. Fastest repetition that a human has achieved is 14 repetitions per second on an acoustic and this action exceeds that by well over 20 repetitions per second.

So this is good for us since technique won't be restrained and limited by the action of a keyboard which = more artistic expression and show boating.

I don't believe you'll find anything made of ivory in the piano market. Not new anyhow.

Do we know where the sensors are located in these actions?

I believe Bechstein provided the wooden keys, while the action mechanism was developed by Casio.

I'll try to find a source for this information.

Kind regards,
James
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@DAZ100 what's your speaker / monitor setup if you don't mind sharing?

Thx.

I like the looks specially of GP500 because the front panel is similar to grand piano, it is excellent cheaper alternative to Yamaha avant N1 that I like. This is something I dont like at Kawai CA series (other brands too) because the looks is so sterile and undefined, neither upright neither grand (also not a fan of uprights, so CS series also). If I pay lots of money I also want looks for `grand` motivation Of course, this is subjective, this is why I stick to VPC1 because of overall quality, price and looks. Probably I have so conservative view for pianos.

Don't overestimate the casio "grand hybrids". They're just another digital piano with wooden keys (whoopdie-doo). I did play one a couple of months ago at a store that also stocked the ca67/97 and rolands and have to say I was impressed with the action considering how little time I had to spend with the pianos. I think the sound engine is superior to what was on the kawais which IMHO sounded harsh in comparison. We were at the store because my daughter was playing for a competition and the slot before hers was cancelled which gave us just enough time to noodle around.

I seriously wish I could find an rm3 to play test but sadly kawai hasn't made those available for play in the US market (ca17)

It's true that Kawai America does not market the CA17 in the US. However, the CA17's 'RM3 Grand' keyboard action is also utilised by the VPC1, which is available in the US...although typically sold by online retailers rather than brick and mortar stores.

Cheers,
James
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I've got a pair of Yamaha MSP5s on speaker stands .Had these a few years now and don't feel the need to upgrade them .

Can anyone find the video of the robot doing the repetition test on the GP500 action? The video seems to have vanished now...The action of it is like liquid water, it truly is amazing IMO.




I am completely with you. When they had the kawai ca67/97 next to the gp500 it looked uninspiring and small. My mouth than began frothing for the Casio GP500...