2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
37 members (Erinmarriott, David Boyce, 20/20 Vision, Animisha, beeboss, Cominut, brennbaer, crab89, aphexdisklavier, admodios, 4 invisible), 1,329 guests, and 280 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 101
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 101
Sofie Kay has written a piece called "10 Important Memory Tricks for Pianists", which includes some great suggestions for those who want to harness the brain's power effectively.

Here's the link...
https://pianodao.com/2016/06/10/10-memory-tricks-pianists/

Any thoughts? And do you have other tips to share?


Pianist, Teacher & Writer of Stuff
Business: www.keyquestmusic.com
Blog: www.pianodao.com
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,377
S
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,377
Thanks for the list. There are some very good suggestions on it.

For simpler pieces, I like to be able to play with the eyes closed, the sound off and do mental practice away from the piano. If I can get to know a piece, without sight, without sound, without touch, it tends to be deep in memory. Complex pieces can't be done entirely to this level, but sections can be.

Most people experience nervousness and/or excitement when performing. The more ways a person has memorized, the better chance it has of getting through the nerves.

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 101
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 101
Thanks Sand Tiger - and yes I completely agree!


Pianist, Teacher & Writer of Stuff
Business: www.keyquestmusic.com
Blog: www.pianodao.com
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,870
W
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,870
For me most important point is to play it right the first times. Memorization starts from there. If I play it wrong the first few times, it will remain a weak spot.

This actually is also a big obstacle. Often you don't play everything right the first time. Eg, you have a fingering that you find out later to be insufficient. Pedaling wrong. Incorrect accents. Misunderstood some dynamics or articulation. Your teacher wants a different interpretation. You slurred incorrectly. etc etc.

If lucky, I hear those issues from my teacher if I do a first playthrough for my teacher, a week or so after I started the piece. By then, the mistakes are already firmly in place. If not lucky, it may be weeks after I started the piece...


[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 12
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 12
I use that 'chunking' method all the time. Along with repetition.


Yamaha YDP162, MM8, Taylor T5Z, Epiphone 1960 Tribute Plus, Seagull S6+ TASCAM M2524, DA88, Sennheiser mics, various outboard gear, VOX AC50CP2
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
O
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
Originally Posted by wouter79
For me most important point is to play it right the first times. Memorization starts from there. If I play it wrong the first few times, it will remain a weak spot.

This actually is also a big obstacle. Often you don't play everything right the first time. Eg, you have a fingering that you find out later to be insufficient. Pedaling wrong. Incorrect accents. Misunderstood some dynamics or articulation. Your teacher wants a different interpretation. You slurred incorrectly. etc etc.

If lucky, I hear those issues from my teacher if I do a first playthrough for my teacher, a week or so after I started the piece. By then, the mistakes are already firmly in place. If not lucky, it may be weeks after I started the piece...


This is interesting to me, since that's what I kept reading when I started learning: Never make mistakes, those will be ingrained, repeat slowly and correct every time from the beginning, don't change fingerings... And I tried to follow that advice the best I could until it dawned on me that we are not all made the same. Only after I stopped caring about those princinples my memorization became faster and more solid.

Gradually I realized that while this is probably good advice for the majority of people, my system works differently. I think it depends on how quickly one builds muscle memory and how solid it becomes. Playing something wrong and then realizing how to do it better actually strengthens my memory. We have found it's best that I study each piece/section by myself first for a while before my teacher starts giving detailed feedback. Experimenting different ways until something "clicks" works better than trying to just repeat something the same way after my teacher's advice. I can repeat something physically for days and it never becomes "fixed" in my memory until it has been ingrained in my mind in another way (which I cannot really explain well, but it's a combination of visual, aural and analytical memory). My teacher's corrective input also strengthens my memory, it seems easy to remember the details she told me to change.

Also for me it's most important to get the "big picture" first, only after that can I really start remembering smaller details. So getting through phrases, section or the whole piece the first time is something I should try to do as fast as possible despite the quality of details, because until I can, the details just keep disappearing because they haven't become parts of the whole. This concerns both musical details and physical movements. The finer movements "grow" from the bigger movements and the process keeps getting more detailed with practice. After I "can" play the piece without the score I can fine tune things and it really isn't that difficult to make changes where they are logical and musically important.

It is the "easy" parts that I could play right without any effort from the beginning that usually are most prone to memory lapses in finished pieces as are also repeated sections. Anything that doesn't require mental effort and trial and error to build but is rather just a physical routine is difficult for me to maintain and remember.

I must belong to a minority though. Probably many people like me have quit intrument lessons in childhood because at least when I was a kid everyone was taught the same way and you ether got it or not. It helps to be an adult with more understanding of oneself and analytical skills to make different choices. I know my teacher thinks I am awfully stubborn sometimes, but she also has not been present on those countless of practice hours I have spent trying all the advice before deciding to give it up and going another way. I'm fortunate to have a teacher who is not rigid and can be open minded. She won't accept me to learn to do something without quality, but if I learn it well my way it doesn't bother her that I do it differently. I don't play my pieces well enough, but I usually know where the problems are and given enough time can fix them. Time...the one thing most precious but often too scarce to us adult learners...

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,870
W
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,870
Originally Posted by outo
I can repeat something physically for days and it never becomes "fixed" in my memory until it has been ingrained in my mind in another way (which I cannot really explain well, but it's a combination of visual, aural and analytical memory).


Yes this sounds odd to me. My brain seems to pick up all the details right away. The second pass is only to strengthen the memory. After a few plays, it's almost fixed already.

When I'm playing, I do not have such a sense for the big picture. I'm too busy with the measures at hand to think that far ahead.

Originally Posted by outo
getting through phrases, section or the whole piece the first time is something I should try to do as fast as possible despite the quality of details


I dont quite get this. What are you really playing at that point? Do you play the notes? Or just chord progressions? Did you do harmonic analysis before doing this play through?


[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
O
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
Originally Posted by wouter79
Originally Posted by outo
I can repeat something physically for days and it never becomes "fixed" in my memory until it has been ingrained in my mind in another way (which I cannot really explain well, but it's a combination of visual, aural and analytical memory).


Yes this sounds odd to me. My brain seems to pick up all the details right away. The second pass is only to strengthen the memory. After a few plays, it's almost fixed already.

When I'm playing, I do not have such a sense for the big picture. I'm too busy with the measures at hand to think that far ahead.

Originally Posted by outo
getting through phrases, section or the whole piece the first time is something I should try to do as fast as possible despite the quality of details


I dont quite get this. What are you really playing at that point? Do you play the notes? Or just chord progressions? Did you do harmonic analysis before doing this play through?

I meant to be able to play through from memory, since this thread is about memorization. I have already done a lot of work with the individual notes, chords or whatever. For me understanding and remembering have always been separate things, the latter being much more difficult.

Actually when I play I have a hard time thinking about details, since the music keeps playing in my head.

Last edited by outo; 06/13/16 03:32 AM.

Moderated by  Brendan, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Country style lessons
by Stephen_James - 04/16/24 06:04 AM
How Much to Sell For?
by TexasMom1 - 04/15/24 10:23 PM
Song lyrics have become simpler and more repetitive
by FrankCox - 04/15/24 07:42 PM
New bass strings sound tubby
by Emery Wang - 04/15/24 06:54 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,385
Posts3,349,183
Members111,631
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.