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Kawai VPC2 wish list #2548159
06/10/16 07:36 AM
06/10/16 07:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,298
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline OP
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CyberGene  Offline OP
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Sofia, Bulgaria
Absolute musts:
- GF2 action
- Speaker system similar to that of ES-series. (Whatever one might say, my ES7 has perfectly capable sound system and I'd love to have that one in a controller)
- Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, or anything similar interface that will allow the velocity curves and other settings be controlled in great details from a mobile device with a dedicated app.

Nice to have (and not crazy wishes):
- Flat top to accommodate a laptop
- Concealed buttons or no visible buttons at all (achievable if the mobile app functionality is implemented)
- Dedicated stand with three pedals

Nice to have (but won't ever be implemented by Kawai or any other piano manufacturer)
- Support for putting replaceable plugin boards with sounds, e.g. putting the latest generation of Kawai piano sounds without the need to buy entirely new digital piano, or at least being able to upload sounds to an internal flash as Nords
- Embedded audio interface
- Support for putting some small PC (e.g. Raspberry Pi or something that supports VST-s) and routing its audio output to the speaker system, sending MIDI, etc. all that hidden inside the cabinet so that the whole setup looks very clean and neat with no hint of electronics


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: CyberGene] #2548162
06/10/16 07:44 AM
06/10/16 07:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 129
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euphoria Offline
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please, don't put speakers. we want to use better monitors than simple speakers anyway.

Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: CyberGene] #2548165
06/10/16 07:51 AM
06/10/16 07:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,298
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline OP
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CyberGene  Offline OP
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You just won't use the internal speakers, what's wrong with that? smile You will use your monitors instead. Besides, I am not very convinced external monitors can create cabinet vibrations that you can feel through the keyboard unless you place them on top of the piano which would look very ugly.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: CyberGene] #2548170
06/10/16 08:11 AM
06/10/16 08:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,469
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Doug M.  Offline
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Absolute musts:
- GF2 action
- Speaker system similar to that of ES-series. (Whatever one might say, my ES7 has perfectly capable sound system and I'd love to have that one in a controller)
- Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, or anything similar interface that will allow the velocity curves and other settings be controlled in great details from a mobile device with a dedicated app.

Nice to have (and not crazy wishes):
- Flat top to accommodate a laptop
- Concealed buttons or no visible buttons at all (achievable if the mobile app functionality is implemented)
- Dedicated stand with three pedals

Nice to have (but won't ever be implemented by Kawai or any other piano manufacturer)
- Support for putting replaceable plugin boards with sounds, e.g. putting the latest generation of Kawai piano sounds without the need to buy entirely new digital piano, or at least being able to upload sounds to an internal flash as Nords
- Embedded audio interface
- Support for putting some small PC (e.g. Raspberry Pi or something that supports VST-s) and routing its audio output to the speaker system, sending MIDI, etc. all that hidden inside the cabinet so that the whole setup looks very clean and neat with no hint of electronics


GFII action: Nah, we've waited long enough for that. Now we want the GFIII action in the VPC2.

Speaker system: Agree it makes no sense to have inbuilt speakers, but would like Kawai to provide custom speakers for the VPC2 i.e., different set-ups for: home surround sound, speaker system for gigging (including player facing monitor), and battery powered speakers for outdoor gigs without power-supply.
If you must have inbuilt speakers, suggest that they come as extras to bolt into an optional cabinet.

Top: disagree that a flat top would be nice to have, it is an essential fix, as flat laptops don't sit nicely on curved surfaces.

Dedicated stand with three pedals: Agree, vital that there be three pedals.

Suggestions: Built in lap-top designed to load VST's, mixing software and notation software such as Sibelius. The screen should be cover-able and touch sensitive. Actually, this would get rid of the need for buttons.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: Doug M.] #2548172
06/10/16 08:23 AM
06/10/16 08:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,298
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline OP
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CyberGene  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Doug M.

If you must have inbuilt speakers, suggest that they come as extras to bolt into an optional cabinet.


Well, that's a good idea! Everyone would be fine this way. I would perfectly accept a dedicated stand with speakers instead of built-in speakers.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: CyberGene] #2548182
06/10/16 09:13 AM
06/10/16 09:13 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 58
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Lam Offline
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 58
I would just be happy if it had the GFII action or a newer version of it as well as high end acoustic like pedals

Also it would be nice to have continuous downloadable content for VST touch curves for newer samples and also support for Vienna Imperial. I love how its just a pure midi piano, I wouldn't prefer it with speakers/wifi/knobs/buttons etc. Each of us can dream for the VPC2 smile

Last edited by lamadoo; 06/10/16 09:15 AM.
Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: CyberGene] #2548188
06/10/16 09:41 AM
06/10/16 09:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 100
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Yohei Offline
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Further improved key action (GF2), dedicated stand and adjustable damper pedal which lets you control the value where half-damper and full-damper get activated.

I wouldn't ask for anything but functions as the most sophisticated MIDI keyboard. For onboard sound, internal speakers and so on, there are other digital pianos. There is absolutely no need for a controller keyboard to cover such aspects.

Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: CyberGene] #2548204
06/10/16 10:24 AM
06/10/16 10:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 129
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euphoria Offline
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You do not change a winning horse,
keep everything as it is, just give us VPC2 with GF-III. thanks you


Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: CyberGene] #2548207
06/10/16 10:32 AM
06/10/16 10:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,298
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,298
Sofia, Bulgaria
I knew it the builtin speakers would be something nobody really wants. Except for me obviously laugh How do you usually play your VPC? Is it mostly with headphones? Or do you use monitors? Where do you place the monitors? I have played with speakers detached from the keyboard cabinet and it ruins the feeling since there are no vibrations in your fingers.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: euphoria] #2548208
06/10/16 10:32 AM
06/10/16 10:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,469
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Doug M.  Offline
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Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by euphoria
You do not change a winning horse,
keep everything as it is, just give us VPC2 with GF-III. thanks you



Point taken, but I'd like this prize stallion to come with a flat saddle to match the flat arse of my laptop.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: CyberGene] #2548214
06/10/16 10:37 AM
06/10/16 10:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,298
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Sofia, Bulgaria
Why GF3 and not GF2? What's to be improved in GF2? It was my understanding GF2 is probably the best action (after real grand-piano actions in hybrid pianos) so it is a real surprise to me that people want it improved.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: CyberGene] #2548217
06/10/16 10:47 AM
06/10/16 10:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 441
St. Louis, MO, USA
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joflah Offline
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. I think it's essential that any advancement in the product should keep it as a midi keyboard, period. If any cabinetry, speakers or accessories are available, they should be optional at extra cost.
. About the flat top, I think it might be curved to prevent resonances. It would be possible to add plastic bracing forming a flat surface above the curved one, though.
. On the VPC1, two of the pedal connections are combined into a stereo phone plug, with a mono plug for the third pedal. I would use three separate plugs for flexibility in using other vendors' pedals. It would also be pretty simple to have software control of the polarity of both the on/off pedals and the continuous sustain pedal, again for flexibility.
. Action improvements - longer lever arms - would be welcome. It would also be nice if there were some way to adjust the key down force (not just the response, but to make it a lighter touch if desired).
. Also, for me at least, a constant touch weight across the board, and elimination of the 'letoff' simulation would be good.

Last edited by joflah; 06/10/16 10:49 AM. Reason: Afterthought

Jack
Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: CyberGene] #2548220
06/10/16 10:51 AM
06/10/16 10:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,469
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Doug M.  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,469
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Why GF3 and not GF2? What's to be improved in GF2? It was my understanding GF2 is probably the best action (after real grand-piano actions in hybrid pianos) so it is a real surprise to me that people want it improved.


There are always improvements to be made on actions e.g., the next evolution might for instance come with some kind of inbuilt tactile response system.

I'm sure there will be advancements being researched at Kawai because Roland keep improving their actions, so they'll need to improve in order to maintain competitive advantage in the only area Kawai are clearly ahead of the competition.

As the VPC2 isn't going to be out for a few years, it will by that time be the GFIII or more. May as well have the best action available at the time for the VPC2.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: joflah] #2548221
06/10/16 10:52 AM
06/10/16 10:52 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,469
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Doug M.  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,469
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by joflah
. I think it's essential that any advancement in the product should keep it as a midi keyboard, period. If any cabinetry, speakers or accessories are available, they should be optional at extra cost.
. About the flat top, I think it might be curved to prevent resonances. It would be possible to add plastic bracing forming a flat surface above the curved one, though.
. On the VPC1, two of the pedal connections are combined into a stereo phone plug, with a mono plug for the third pedal. I would use three separate plugs for flexibility in using other vendors' pedals. It would also be pretty simple to have software control of the polarity of both the on/off pedals and the continuous sustain pedal, again for flexibility.
. Action improvements - longer lever arms - would be welcome. It would also be nice if there were some way to adjust the key down force (not just the response, but to make it a lighter touch if desired).
. Also, for me at least, a constant touch weight across the board, and elimination of the 'letoff' simulation would be good.


+1 smile


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: CyberGene] #2548222
06/10/16 10:54 AM
06/10/16 10:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 100
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Yohei Offline
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I knew it the builtin speakers would be something nobody really wants. Except for me obviously laugh How do you usually play your VPC? Is it mostly with headphones? Or do you use monitors? Where do you place the monitors? I have played with speakers detached from the keyboard cabinet and it ruins the feeling since there are no vibrations in your fingers.


Supposedly majority of people use both headphones and monitors, and monitors (if they are using nearafields) are most likely placed about 1-1.5m from listening position.

I understand the vibrations are nice, but find it a bit odd that you expect such physical phenomenon from something that is primarily a MIDI keyboard. Isn't that just better if you ask digital piano manufacturers to come up with better onboard sound? It'll make life so much simpler for you.

Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: CyberGene] #2548224
06/10/16 10:57 AM
06/10/16 10:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,658
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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The speakers don't make sense in a VPC.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I knew it the builtin speakers would be something nobody really wants. Except for me obviously
The VPC produces NO SOUND, so there's nothing for internal speakers to do. Sound is the job of your attached VST controller/PC ... and its attached sound system.

Now, if the VPC had speakers, you could route your controller's audio into it. But why go to the trouble of getting good sound from a VST only to route that sound into crummy little on-board keyboard speakers?

Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: Yohei] #2548231
06/10/16 11:13 AM
06/10/16 11:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,469
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Doug M.  Offline
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Originally Posted by Yohei
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I have played with speakers detached from the keyboard cabinet and it ruins the feeling since there are no vibrations in your fingers.



I understand the vibrations are nice, but find it a bit odd that you expect such physical phenomenon from something that is primarily a MIDI keyboard. Isn't that just better if you ask digital piano manufacturers to come up with better onboard sound? It'll make life so much simpler for you.


Don't see the VPC as just a midi keyboard: there are plenty of better midi controllers out there. The VPC is a piano controller and as such should be as realistic as it's possible given the technology available and the cost/benefit analysis as far as Kawai are concerned.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: Doug M.] #2548236
06/10/16 11:26 AM
06/10/16 11:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 100
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Yohei Offline
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by Yohei
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I have played with speakers detached from the keyboard cabinet and it ruins the feeling since there are no vibrations in your fingers.



I understand the vibrations are nice, but find it a bit odd that you expect such physical phenomenon from something that is primarily a MIDI keyboard. Isn't that just better if you ask digital piano manufacturers to come up with better onboard sound? It'll make life so much simpler for you.


Don't see the VPC as just a midi keyboard: there are plenty of better midi controllers out there. The VPC is a piano controller and as such should be as realistic as it's possible given the technology available and the cost/benefit analysis as far as Kawai are concerned.


I think you misunderstood my post. VPC is a controller keyboard whose highest priority is to provide piano-like key response while sending MIDI signal to a sound module (mostly computer in this day and age). That's why I called it a MIDI keyboard but should have called it MIDI "piano" keyboard or something perhaps.

Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: MacMacMac] #2548245
06/10/16 11:48 AM
06/10/16 11:48 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,298
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline OP
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CyberGene  Offline OP
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Sofia, Bulgaria
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
The speakers don't make sense in a VPC.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I knew it the builtin speakers would be something nobody really wants. Except for me obviously
The VPC produces NO SOUND, so there's nothing for internal speakers to do. Sound is the job of your attached VST controller/PC ... and its attached sound system.

Now, if the VPC had speakers, you could route your controller's audio into it. But why go to the trouble of getting good sound from a VST only to route that sound into crummy little on-board keyboard speakers?


Because of vibrations in the cabinet. You could use the best monitors available but without feeling those vibrations you'd be just listening to some good sound without feeling it the way you should.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai VPC2 wish list [Re: CyberGene] #2548246
06/10/16 11:54 AM
06/10/16 11:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,298
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Offline OP
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Posts: 4,298
Sofia, Bulgaria
Why would people prefer VPC1 over MP11. The latter has same size and weight, much better keyboard and much-much better controller capabilities.

Last edited by CyberGene; 06/10/16 11:55 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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