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Beware of Music Minus One #2539322
05/13/16 11:44 AM
05/13/16 11:44 AM
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Nordomus Offline OP
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Last year I've bought Rachmaninoffs second piano concerto http://digital.musicminusone.com/ra...op-18-digitally-remastered-2-cd-set.html
which turned out to be COMPLETELY synthetic, samples are from diffrent version and they STILL didn't change them despite me telling them it's an error so I guess they deliberately false advertise their products. Took me few MONTHS to get refund from them for this but the worst comes now. I've seen this version http://digital.musicminusone.com/great-movie-concerti-warsaw-concerto-and-more-2-cd-set.html
and I was assured it was completely live orchestral one aaaaand it is true, this version is really good and beautiful BUT what I've received is incomplete list of files. Piano concerto is only in fragments and what is worse those fragments do not make complete performance. Neither with soloist nor without him, really???!!! FFS I'm trying to solve this again but it's really anoying, why can't I get what I'm buying?? What is worst for all people is that they don't care, they, even after I told them about "errors" on product page. Anyone else got ripped off? And I hope this is good subforum for this topic.

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Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: Nordomus] #2539364
05/13/16 02:20 PM
05/13/16 02:20 PM
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Anyone else use this before? I've considered buying it in the past but now I'm not sure. Thanks for your post Nordomus


"I was obliged to be industrious. Whoever is equally industrious will succeed equally well."

J.S. Bach
Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: Cheeto717] #2539400
05/13/16 04:26 PM
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No problem, had to do it since they don't learn. For the record I know one person which bought from them Mozart piano concerto and had no problems. But there certainly is a problem with Rachmaninoffs second concerto in any form. I'll keep you posted if something will be resolved but for now all I can say for sure is be careful and be prepared for refund or something. On the other hand you might just buy a thing which won't have any flaws and you will be satisfied smile

Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: Nordomus] #2540545
05/17/16 06:03 AM
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A little update. Or rather NO update. Still no reply from MMO group, I've written to them to 2 diffrent adressess and replied to email I had from them before. Here's the thing- yet again there was no problem whatsoever with contacting them about product BEFORE purchase(I've received reply same day) but as soon as I've bought it and have problems there is no response whatsoever. This time I won't wait 3 or 4 months that I can asure you and them. This is damn ridiculus. I still have hope that this will end well for me and them but I'm gonna snap soon.

Last edited by Nordomus; 05/17/16 06:26 AM.
Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: Nordomus] #2540744
05/17/16 06:01 PM
05/17/16 06:01 PM
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That's a bummer, there's no other similar product out there. Even with a recording of just the accompaniment, it's not like you can just play along because each tempo change or solo section would desync you and the recording.

I'm currently going through an extremely arduous effort to use my digital piano's various settings to produce a full orchestral accompaniment for Rach 1 since Music Minus One didn't have Rach 1, but it's just to produce the sound instead of have a viable accompaniment to practice with.

Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: trigalg693] #2540880
05/18/16 03:31 AM
05/18/16 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by trigalg693
That's a bummer, there's no other similar product out there. Even with a recording of just the accompaniment, it's not like you can just play along because each tempo change or solo section would desync you and the recording.

I'm currently going through an extremely arduous effort to use my digital piano's various settings to produce a full orchestral accompaniment for Rach 1 since Music Minus One didn't have Rach 1, but it's just to produce the sound instead of have a viable accompaniment to practice with.

Yep, been doing that till last year. But I'm not satisfied with it anymore but I guess there is no choice for now. Could you please share with me what you will create? I love Rach first concerto, I'd like to learn it as well.

Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: Nordomus] #2540972
05/18/16 10:30 AM
05/18/16 10:30 AM
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Attempts to communicate with MMO are unlikely to be successful at present and I'll tell you why.

Irv Kratka, the CEO, has been running MMO (in recent years virtually single-handed) since 1956 and has produced "minus" versions of pretty much every major classical work (close on 1000 albums) which are largely unobtainable elsewhere. These have never been profitable, and he has actually payed the rent with his more popular "karaoke" productions, subsidising the classical stuff.

This year (his 90th) he is giving up the company having tried hard, as far as I know unsuccessfully, to sell it. So if anyone wants a minus version of any of the concertos etc I suggest you get it double quick as the future of the company is pretty uncertain.

As far as the latest MMO Rach 2 is concerned, did you actually listen to any of the music before you condemned it? The original version with the Stuttgart Orchestra was recorded decades ago, and received a great deal of critcism largely because of its bizarre variations in tempo making it hard to play along with. For later versions David Syme tried to add the piano part, several decades later, and the result is not awe-inspiring. This is why Irv wanted a new version.

Though I could be accused of bias (having produced the tracks) there can be no doubt whatsoever that the new version is vastly superior to the previous one in every way. It has been produced with the collaboration of a concert pianist from the very start, and has been optimised for its purpose - to be played along with. There are carefully selected slow-motion tracks for practice. And in fact the the full version, which is just a by-product, is actually something you might well want to listen to in your sitting-room (unless you have some kind of religious objection to sampled music.) Have a listen

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxpFyO_R0t5JZWNfemUtcDYwNzg/view?usp=sharing

The advertising on the website is wrong, and I have already pointed this out to Irv. For the reasons above, it is unlikely to be corrected in the near future.

The Great Movie Concerti album is what it says, a collection of excerpts from famous concertos that have been used in films. (Its main feature was a new rendering of the Warsaw Concerto which a lot of people had asked for).




Last edited by stephen22; 05/18/16 11:02 AM.
Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: stephen22] #2540981
05/18/16 10:45 AM
05/18/16 10:45 AM
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Nordomus Offline OP
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Thank you for this insight.
I've played with lastest version of this rach 2 concerto, of course and it's not bad for practice, it's better because of tempos and all that but often I just want to immerse myself in this piece and this can't be really done with synthetic sounds.
Anyway it's really sad that MMO might be no more but just a sugestion that it MIGHT be because they don't care about customers? Maybe, just MAYBE. But seriously I myself would've bought some more pieces but not when I'm supplied with false advertisement, incomplete product AND no support after purchase. For me this is the main reason this company is failing if that is in fact true.

Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: Nordomus] #2541000
05/18/16 11:44 AM
05/18/16 11:44 AM
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stephen22 Offline
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Care about customers.

OK.

Let me tell you a story. A few years ago I produced for MMO a minus version of Brahms 2nd PC. It had good reviews but one customer wrote in and complained that he didn't like the new method we'd used to keep the pianist on track during orchestra tacet passages.

Irv had an alternative CD master made, just for this one customer, and in case someone else said they preferred the old "taps" method. (No-one did.)

Funnily enough, our friend hadn't actually noticed that the orchestra was "synthetic". Perhaps you might have enjoyed our Rach version more if we hadn't told you.


Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: stephen22] #2541030
05/18/16 01:11 PM
05/18/16 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by stephen22
Care about customers.

OK.

Let me tell you a story. A few years ago I produced for MMO a minus version of Brahms 2nd PC. It had good reviews but one customer wrote in and complained that he didn't like the new method we'd used to keep the pianist on track during orchestra tacet passages.

Irv had an alternative CD master made, just for this one customer, and in case someone else said they preferred the old "taps" method. (No-one did.)

Funnily enough, our friend hadn't actually noticed that the orchestra was "synthetic". Perhaps you might have enjoyed our Rach version more if we hadn't told you.



Making special version for customer? That's amazing, maybe a bit over the top, I personally wouldn't expect that but it is still amazing.

As for concerto I was actually sure I was buying live remastered version. So no, I was actually expecting natural sound, and seriously I notice those things in split second after hearing recording. Anyway that is NOT true problem here. The issue is that there is no response from support after I make any purchase and the worst thing is my current purchase is not complete FFS, I didn't receive full concerto, just fragments Another problem is that there is false advertisement, which for me is one of the worst things here, especially when both you and me pointed this out. Those are main problems here.

Last edited by Nordomus; 05/18/16 01:11 PM.
Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: stephen22] #2541053
05/18/16 01:55 PM
05/18/16 01:55 PM
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beet31425 Offline
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Originally Posted by stephen22
...one customer wrote in and complained that he didn't like the new method we'd used to keep the pianist on track during orchestra tacet passages.

Just curious-- what's this new method that replaced the old taps?


Beethoven op.110, Chopin op.27/2, Liszt Vallée d'Obermann
Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: Nordomus] #2541273
05/19/16 07:18 AM
05/19/16 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
I notice those things in split second after hearing recording.


Amazing.

Seriously though, clearly you've bought a couple of MMO items in good faith, and I'm sure Irv wouldn't mind if I supplied you with an MP3 of the original Stuttgart SO version. I can try extracting it from the disc and uploading it, and PM you the link. It would be quite a hassle so I won't do it unless you are interested. Do you want me to?

Originally Posted by beet31425
Just curious-- what's this new method that replaced the old taps?


actual pitched notes played on a piano at strategic intervals throughout the empty passage

Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: stephen22] #2541304
05/19/16 09:03 AM
05/19/16 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by stephen22

Seriously though, clearly you've bought a couple of MMO items in good faith, and I'm sure Irv wouldn't mind if I supplied you with an MP3 of the original Stuttgart SO version. I can try extracting it from the disc and uploading it, and PM you the link. It would be quite a hassle so I won't do it unless you are interested. Do you want me to?


Sure I want, of course we are talking about "minus one" version of Rachmaninoff's second piano concerto? Then yes I want it badly, been looking for this for 2 years or so and I was happy when I saw this on MMO site so you can imagine my piled up frustration with this, if you can do it for me then that would be great. It should be in the package though, so you if it's possible it should be uploaded into this product.

Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: Nordomus] #2541338
05/19/16 10:24 AM
05/19/16 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
It should be in the package though, so you if it's possible it should be uploaded into this product.


?

Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: stephen22] #2541357
05/19/16 11:04 AM
05/19/16 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by stephen22
Originally Posted by Nordomus
It should be in the package though, so you if it's possible it should be uploaded into this product.


?


http://digital.musicminusone.com/great-movie-concerti-warsaw-concerto-and-more-2-cd-set.html

It says that it contains Rachs second concerto all 3 parts yet all I have in package is fragment's of it which does not even make full concerto, that's what I meant.

Edit: I've assumed you work for MMO, maybe I've misinterpreted your posts, if so, sorry about that smile

Last edited by Nordomus; 05/19/16 12:45 PM.
Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: Nordomus] #2541432
05/19/16 02:11 PM
05/19/16 02:11 PM
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I don't quite understand, it quite clearly says "(excerpts)" on the cover page?


I have an ice cream. I cannot mail it, for it will melt.
Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: mrenaud] #2541440
05/19/16 02:39 PM
05/19/16 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mrenaud
I don't quite understand, it quite clearly says "(excerpts)" on the cover page?

LOL you are right, I guess my mind rejected that piece of info because for it- it was ridiculous. But stephen22 if you have full version I would be seriously in debt to you.

Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: Nordomus] #2541441
05/19/16 02:40 PM
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I've got the files off the CD and it was easier than I thought. There are 34 wav files for the 3 movements totalling 378 Mb. You will need to burn them to a CD with zero delay between tracks. Can you cope with that? I think any CD burner probably including Windows Media Player will give you that (vital!) option.

Alternatively you can glue them together in an audio editor and play them from a memory stick or something.

If you want me to I can upload the files and send you the link in a PM.

Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: stephen22] #2541444
05/19/16 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by stephen22
I've got the files off the CD and it was easier than I thought. There are 34 wav files for the 3 movements totalling 378 Mb. You will need to burn them to a CD with zero delay between tracks. Can you cope with that? I think any CD burner probably including Windows Media Player will give you that (vital!) option.

Alternatively you can glue them together in an audio editor and play them from a memory stick or something.

If you want me to I can upload the files and send you the link in a PM.


No problem I have some experience with assembling audio files so as long as this is complete version I can do anything to make it work, thank you for what you have done so far smile

Re: Beware of Music Minus One [Re: Nordomus] #2541488
05/19/16 05:57 PM
05/19/16 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
Originally Posted by mrenaud
I don't quite understand, it quite clearly says "(excerpts)" on the cover page?

LOL you are right, I guess my mind rejected that piece of info because for it- it was ridiculous. But stephen22 if you have full version I would be seriously in debt to you.


Looks like the full version is for sale on the web site

http://digital.musicminusone.com/ra...op-18-digitally-remastered-2-cd-set.html

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