Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course

I couldn't agree more. Of course it depends on what level a person starts at, but I think it could take many years to master the techniques to Duane's level. (Of course by then you'd have your own students!)

Well, I finished the course over the course of last night, but then the alarm clock went off and it was time to wake up. Nice dream though.


Back to reality - I am experimenting with applying the swing bass technique and the inversions (and the swing bass with the inversions) to previous tunes and that is going well. I can't think of a better way to get this into my hands. I am doing it S-L-O-W-L-Y, and letting those brain connections form. The main thing for me this time around is that I am able to do it at all. That is a big win for me.

Tony

TonyB,
Nice dream indeed! I wish we could just plug in matrix style and download it all into our brains all at once. Sadly, we must all take the long scenic route. As for it being a big win, it really is. keep on keepin' on man, you're doing great!

Thanks Fizikisto. I have completed lesson 4, so I do want to take a few days to go back through previous tunes before moving on. I understand finding that balance that was mentioned earlier in this thread, between moving forward and going back over previous tunes. I want to make sure that I have the material well in hand before adding still more technique though. One thing I noticed when watching Duane Shinn is that he is playing all this at a very relaxed pace, so obviously accuracy is more important than speed in his approach.

Tony

TonyB,

I agree. Also, I would note that speed comes with relaxation. Later Duane does play some stuff really fast (going up tempo, or down tempo is an arrangement technique of sorts too). But if you practice playing accurately and slowly, you'll be able to play accurately and faster later on if you cultivate relaxation.

Attitude is another important factor, imo. Another thing you'll notice is that when Duane flubs and hits a wrong note or otherwise screws up, he hasn't edited that out of the video, and usually it gives him a chuckle. "haha did you see me screw up on line three?!" It's purposely done to show that even when you reach a high level of playing like he has, you'll still make mistakes. As for him being able to smile and laugh when he makes a mistake, I think that's a better reaction than my occasional string of growls and expletives

People in the west tend to look at failure and mistakes the wrong way, imo. They feel bad about making mistakes or failing at something. A better approach is to view it as an opportunity for learning. I like the saying, "To master something you must first make a million mistakes. get started." As frustrating as they are, I know that every mistake is part of the learning process that will get me to where I want to be.

Warm Regards

I don't suppose I could get either (or both) of you to post examples of what you are doing in these lessons. It might convince me that this course would be useful in my endeavors.

Yes, I will do that. As far as I am concerned, all the talk in the world proves nothing. The "rubber meets the road" when I am willing to back up all the talk with something real.

Now, the caveats...

I have never recorded myself playing piano, so I need to figure out what cabling I need, etc, etc. I will make one or more MP3s, find a place to post them, and then post here when they are ready. It might be a few days of playing around with the recording process or maybe I can just do something and get it posted somewhere.

Another caveat...I am in the very early stages of this course, so the songs will be simple children's songs with no advanced technique of any kind, and played slowly. This will give you a very real idea of where one starts in the course.

If the recording process works out well, I will seriously consider posting more MP3s periodically so people can hear whether there is any progress, and if that progress warrants buying the course. This is assuming that you can base your potential on whatever you feel my own potential is. Remember that we are different people, with different strengths.

DMD, from what you have said (i.e. playing some classical pieces), you are probably past the point that I am currently at. I can tell you that what I am doing is only the first 4 lessons, and the course really has not gathered momentum yet. That will apparently happen over the next 12 lessons or so, since lesson 17 seems to be a recap of many techniques one can apply to a song.

As for Fitzikisto, remember that the sentiments I express here about recording are my own views and should not reflect on whatever he decides to do or not do.

Tony

Tony: I will look forward to hearing (or seeing) what you are doing.

The simplest means of recording that I have found are as follows ...

1. Your keyboard may have the capability to record mp3 files.

2. Pianoteq records EVERYTHING as you use it. You can then select that which you like.

3. I can use my computer webcam for video recording. Works fine.

So, anyway ... that is how I deal with it when I wish to.

Good Luck

Thanks for the tips, dmd. I just needed to get a routine down for the work flow. Now that I have it, it is really quite easy. The main issue with the V-Grand is that it is so big that you literally have to crawl underneath it to plug in the cables to the audio outs. It has all manner of jacks for professional concert hall sound connections, as well as the same 4 channel audio outs that the V-Piano has so you can add extra speakers and stuff if you really want to get crazy. This thing is really a behemoth, since it is a real baby grand cabinet (5' 6" baby grand, 375 lbs).

Here are three recordings I just made today:

https://app.box.com/s/677jd1bylozerw5sndtpvpgilt81v9io

Hopefully, whoever wants to hear these has permissions. I tried the link and it worked for me.

"Mulberry" is from the current lesson 4, and is played exactly the way Duane does it on his video (though he does it with more "authority" due to the years he has been teaching it).

"Merrily1" is the first song you learn in lesson 1, and is done exactly as Duane does it.

"Merrily2" is done with the "swing bass". I simply recorded the first time I tried it that way, no rehearsal, just to see if I could do it.

All of these are first and only takes because I wanted you to hear what I am able to do honestly, rather than trying to sound more capable than I currently am.

I would have to look back at this thread to see where I said I started the course again, but that is all the time I have put into this at this point. Prior to restarting this course, I had not been playing piano for a while at all.

Someday I may get into video recording, but for now MP3 is good enough for me. I doubt anybody would "fake it" playing at this level, so you know it is really me. If I played one of the demo tunes instead, then just maybe either the Duane Shinn course is doing absolute miracles or I am grossly misrepresenting myself.

I do think that recording myself from time to time would be a really good idea. Putting such recordings out there for all to hear would certainly keep me honest about practicing and whatnot, probably leading me to really get through this course once and for all. I guess all it took to get going on this was a push from you guys.

Tony

Tony: Thank you for the recordings. Now, I have a better idea of the material in the course. The beginning nature of it, anyway. It is actually very typical Duane Shinn stuff.

You sound like you are off to a good start. The trick will be staying with each "week" until you master it ... or at least become pretty fluent with it. That concept of going back through other songs with the new material is critical. That will help you become fluent with other chords and melodies.

I think you are on the right track, you just have to find the resolve to stick with it.

Thanks dmd! I was thinking this morning while going over material I played yesterday (not the recordings, but the lesson), how this process is similar in some ways to when I was learning to drive. I learned to drive a car with a stick shift, so there was a lot more to organize than just pressing on the gas to go and the brake to stop.

With those simple recordings I did yesterday, there was a lot going on - reading as I played, getting the fingering right, making sure that the left and right hands stayed together while doing different things, and doing all that in some semblance of time.

All of that comes into play every time I sit down to the piano to play, and if I do it often and regularly enough, much of it will become automatic so I can focus instead on playing music, rather than just notes being counted. It is a question of mental bandwidth - the brain can only actively process a few things at a time, while those things that become ingrained take up very little of the active processing, giving more time to the the things that need attention and focus. It was like that with the guitar, and any new thing that I learn to do.

I have noticed that the 52 week course seems to introduce variety to keep us on our toes. For instance, timing is varied from tune to tune by using tunes that have a variety of the placement of various note lengths in a measure, or switching between the various techniques we have learned and applying several in one tune and to a variety of chords. I am sure this will continue as I get farther into the course. Over time, this will really cement these techniques into my hands.

In the current lesson (now lesson 5), Duane talks about finding a chord among those we know to fit a melody note that does not sound right with the chord given in the book. He frequently invites us on the video to think for ourselves and play with the tunes he assigns to come up with more interesting ways to play them.

I think there are a couple of very good reasons to put up recordings from time to time. The main one is that it keeps us honest about what we are really doing. Anybody can be anything on the internet, and nobody is the wiser unless proof is asked for and not provided. It is entirely possible that, due to my enthusiasm, I could have given the impression that I was farther along than I really am. If so, it was not intentional, and listening to my recordings would bring out the facts very quickly.

Another important aspect is that it can keep us motivated because now, instead of just hiding in our room with an endless stretch of time ahead of us to spend however we feel at the time, such as doing anything but practicing, we have now made a commitment to show something of our efforts, which requires us to have something ready.

It seems to me as I think about it, that an online study group focusing on a particular self-study book series or course such as the 52 week crash course or some of the other study group threads here, would want to have its members put up recordings periodically because that takes it from the realm of talking about doing the thing to actually doing the thing, and motivation then becomes much less of an issue. This should be optional, but invited, because there will be people who simply either are not equipped to record for a variety of reasons, and people who are too shy. Those folks should not be ruled out of such a discussion, but for those who are willing to put themselves out there, they will probably get the most out of the book or course.

Tony

Tony:

Your concept of the value of posting recordings of your progress from time to time is absolutely right on. It will force you to demonstrate your progress and not just talk about it.

The ideal would be for you and a few others to do that throughout this particular course to help each of you with motivation and a dose of reality from time to time.

However, the issue that usually arises is that one or more of you will begin to "fall behind" and will then feel less enthusiastic about posting because it now demonstrates that you are not doing as well as the other person(s). If you (and others) can avoid that comparison issue then the posting thing will work. Otherwise, it will result in the end of the postings for those that fall behind and the process will probably end for everyone involved.

As you know, almost any method is GREAT in the early stages of the process because it is being buoyed by the anticipation of success. However, the reality of the length of the journey can erode that sense of being successful and a new direction will be sought.

I, personally, have experienced that process numerous times. In fact, maybe that is the process of learning to play piano. I am quite sure it is rare for someone to pick a "method" and just stay with it through the years and become a fine player. More than likely they utilized various methods and just keep working and the finished product is the summation of all those methods.

In any event, I think the Duane Shinn material is as good or better than many if your goal is to be able to play piano without simply memorizing songs.

I would be most interested in hearing a post from you from time to time demonstrating progress.

Keep pluggin'

dmd,

Yes, I am aware of how few people seem to get through the various courses. There are a lot of testimonials on Duane's site for the 52 week course. The course has been around for many years, so it is possible that there could be people who finished it - especially before there were forums such as this to distract them and easy availability to every possible course and book that anybody who wanted to sell something and make money puts up on some site. It could well be that there might have been a time when there were fewer distractions and people's attention span and willingness to take on such a long term commitment was different than today.

To me, it seems this is a daily commitment. We each have a choice every day in these forums - are we going walk the talk, or talk the walk. I sincerely hope that I have the fortitude to choose the former from here on out. However, only time will tell. I did it with the guitar, with getting through college, and a few other long term commitments in my life, so I should be able to do it with the piano too. This is one thing I still want to accomplish in my lifetime.

If somebody else puts up a video or MP3 that is ahead of me, it will be inspiring, knowing that one day I too will sound like that, since I am working from the same materials. It would give me more confidence in the capacity of the course for leading us to a good outcome for the time and effort expended. I find it curious that people would not react that way. I would think that knowing what is possible would be inspiring. If anything could suck the life out of such an endeavor as this, it would be all that insipid talk about "talent", making it seem that there is no point in bothering at all because "some gots it, some don't". I personally do not believe that philosophy, but it does come up every time some 4 year old posts a video of him or herself wailing away at the piano. When I taught guitar, it seemed to be a huge issue for adult students, but kids never seemed to give it a second thought - they just plowed ahead because they simply wanted to play guitar and nobody told them it was hard.

By the way, you have been around these types of courses for quite some time, from what you have said. You even recognized what I was playing in my recordings as typical of Duane Shinn's approach.

Could you put up a recording or two of your own efforts, and maybe even join this thread on an ongoing basis with whatever course you choose to pursue? I think you have some really good insights.

Thanks,

Tony

As of this evening, I have decided to increase my practice session to a half hour each instead of the initially recommended 15 minutes, and keeping 4 of these per day. The reason is that it is becoming very obvious to me that 15 minutes a few times a day is really just playing around, rather than getting really focused. It is quite clear to me already, that there is a lot for my hands to learn.

The intellect seems to grasp things far more quickly than the hands can physically perform, which is probably it is so much easier to "talk than walk" when it comes to self-study courses. So, instead of getting farther buried with the lessons, I intend to step up. Already at lesson 5, it is time to make that decision.

I know I have been one of the most active posters here so far, but I think it is time to post just a few times per week at most, and put the most time into "the walk" from here on out if I am to make any progress. Really, this is a very demanding course, and it would be a good idea before investing this much money in it, to understand that it really is a serious time commitment. Anything worthwhile in this life is, when it comes down to it. I am certainly waking up to that fact now. I sincerely hope someday to be able to say that, I, like Fizikisto, have made it through 47 lessons and am a better player for it. That, takes a real commitment and I hope I am up for it now.

Tony

I would like to join Jusca in saying that I am not currently doing this course, but I appreciate this thread.

TonyB, I commend you for recording, and for posting the recordings. For all the reasons mentioned by others, I am convinced that recording is a HUGE benefit for developing pianists, and PARTICULARLY HUGE for those of us who are self-taught.

I have chosen to record all of my "40 Pieces a Year" efforts, and, recording has been amazingly helpful to me.

Keep up the good work. Good luck to you.

Thanks raubucho. I will listen to some of your recordings soon.

Tony

PianoStudent88,

I hope there is some worthwhile content even if only inspirational.

Tony

Hi,
1st post, after some weeks reading this thread.
I'm also looking at a self-study piano package.

I started (and stopped) a few times to learn piano in my youth and now I want to try to get a bit more focused and determined.

I will start a night community class for one month in May and the teacher will use the Alfred All in One book 1.

I also have the Learn and Master Piano, but the I'm not sure I like the chord approach.

I'm considering the Duane crash course, but the 1K cost is delaying my decision...granted on a weekly basis, $25 is better than an actual teacher will cost.
One question I have, is if you can buy the Duane course by the month, basically 1 dvd at the time, instead of all at the same time.
I can see on his website you can buy the 1st month, but I could not understand (the web page is not exactly an example of modern layout.. ) So if anybody had experience I would appreciate and information you may have.

In the mean time I may order the 1st month lessons.

Thanks!

--stoppa

I thought there was something about buying the first 4 months, and then if you like the course, you can go ahead and buy the rest of it in one purchase. However, that maybe isn't true anymore, I don't know.

When the course was VHS tapes, I think it was sold on a month by month basis, but when I bought it, you bought the whole thing at once. The price does not seem to have changed in that time, which is unusual for any product that has been around that long.

I think the real question is twofold:

1. Does the course teach for the direction you want to go musically? I think that Fizikisto's posts here have described it really well, so you have the information in those earlier posts to make that decision for yourself.

2. Are you willing to make the commitment to see it through?
This course really does demand consistent effort over a long time. I have started and stopped twice already. Hopefully, now I have the discipline and fortitude to see it through. I have recently broken through the part that was tripping me up, so I now have confidence that I really can do this. It is a real decision only you can make. In the purchase decision process, this is probably the most important thing, especially considering the cost. I had the money at the time, so that wasn't an issue for me (though now, I would have to think long and hard...), but for somebody who will have to watch the cost closely, this could be a real issue. It is too much money to have the stuff gathering dust. The upside is that you will know how to play piano by the time you finish the course.

Tony