Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
Mr. PianoWorld - the full interview
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
103 registered members (AZ_Astro, anotherscott, ando, Alex C, AprilE, 19 invisible), 1,429 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Kenya burns stockpile of ivory #2535481
04/30/16 01:43 PM
04/30/16 01:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,393
Québec, Canada
accordeur Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
accordeur  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,393
Québec, Canada


Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2535518
04/30/16 04:14 PM
04/30/16 04:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,058
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,058
Georgia, USA
I heard that story on NPR news.

It seems, despite the new ivory laws/regulations, elephant poaching for their ivory is still a lucrative trade for extremely desperate and poor poachers in these African countries where elephants live in the wild. And, it seems to me the governments of these countries would do more to help provide legitimate and lawful jobs for these individuals who become poachers. Not to get into socioeconomic politics, but people and their families who are starving will do most anything to make money to buy food or whatever...

Some of the news commentators were saying that efforts like this (burning/destroying thousands of pounds of illegal ivory) will not stop the poachers, and will only make it worse, because the ivory being destroyed will only make the supply less and the demand more. Seems to me the elephants were already dead, and that much ivory could have been sold legally by the government, and the money spent on helping the poor and desperate citizens who become poachers in order to feed their families in these countries.

It's a shame that owners of older pianos with ivory key-tops and other musical instruments have to suffer because of mis-guided and ineffective enforcement of poaching laws.

The black rhino is all but extinct because of the same ineffective and poorly enforced poaching laws.

Just my .02.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: Rickster] #2535521
04/30/16 04:26 PM
04/30/16 04:26 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,951
Scotland
Beemer Offline
Bronze Subscriber
Beemer  Offline
Bronze Subscriber

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,951
Scotland
I believe only one white male rhino left frown

Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: Rickster] #2535552
04/30/16 05:45 PM
04/30/16 05:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,393
Québec, Canada
accordeur Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
accordeur  Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,393
Québec, Canada
Originally Posted by Rickster
I heard that story on NPR news.

It seems, despite the new ivory laws/regulations, elephant poaching for their ivory is still a lucrative trade for extremely desperate and poor poachers in these African countries where elephants live in the wild. And, it seems to me the governments of these countries would do more to help provide legitimate and lawful jobs for these individuals who become poachers. Not to get into socioeconomic politics, but people and their families who are starving will do most anything to make money to buy food or whatever...

Some of the news commentators were saying that efforts like this (burning/destroying thousands of pounds of illegal ivory) will not stop the poachers, and will only make it worse, because the ivory being destroyed will only make the supply less and the demand more. Seems to me the elephants were already dead, and that much ivory could have been sold legally by the government, and the money spent on helping the poor and desperate citizens who become poachers in order to feed their families in these countries.

It's a shame that owners of older pianos with ivory key-tops and other musical instruments have to suffer because of mis-guided and ineffective enforcement of poaching laws.

The black rhino is all but extinct because of the same ineffective and poorly enforced poaching laws.

Just my .02.

Rick


Good points. But provenance is so difficult to determine...

I am sad to see such a beautiful material being destroyed.

Piano players can easily go without ivory. But artists do make wonderful works of art.

There will be a way to have legal ivory, over time, from dead elephants.

We are not there yet obviously. Maybe some day.... In the meantime killing elephants ensures their ultimate demise. And that is no good.

My two cents



Jean Poulin

Musician, Tuner and Technician

www.actionpiano.ca
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2535553
04/30/16 05:47 PM
04/30/16 05:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,713
The Heart of Screenland
K
KurtZ Offline
1000 Post Club Member
KurtZ  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,713
The Heart of Screenland
Like the drug war, you have to dry up the demand. Lacking that, all notions of laws, nobility, enforcement, are out the window. There is no impermeable membrane given a sufficient pressure differential. As long as on the one side you have the newly wealthy asians continuing their fetish for ivory and the great poverty in rural africa on the other, no amount of hard to enforce laws will stop the flow. Burning this cache, while symbolic, only increases the price by highlighting the rarity.

Kurt



**********************************************************************************************************
Co-owner (by marriage) and part time customer service rep at an electronic musical equipment repair shop.
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2535589
04/30/16 08:11 PM
04/30/16 08:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,653
Kuwait
PhilipInChina Offline
3000 Post Club Member
PhilipInChina  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,653
Kuwait
That has reduced supply so will keep up the price and make poaching more economically viable.

Gestures like this are made frequently and have had no effect on poaching.

Elephants die, and die with ivory in their head. So why not use it?

Now had he fought corruption so that the supply of ivory was properly monitored and those responsible for poaching were arrested and everybody in the illegal supply chain arrested, given a fair trial and punished, that would have been of some use.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2535605
04/30/16 08:53 PM
04/30/16 08:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,887
J
joe80 Offline
2000 Post Club Member
joe80  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,887
I'm not sure how I feel about this. What I do feel is that the ivory trade grew up in a time when we, as a species, were not as enlightened about certain issues as we are now. I don't think that using ivory from elephants who die naturally is wrong as Philip has suggested, just as I don't think medical research on our deceased is wrong although I respect that it is subject to permissions. However, because the trade has been abused, and I am certain that the early ivory trade saw the killing of several healthy adult elephants for no other reason than to harvest their tusks, perhaps an outright ban is really the only way forward for the protection of the species.

Whether burning the existing ivory, or banning the trade will actually work is a different matter. I'm not so sure if this was the right course of action or not, but it does send a signal out to the world that, officially anyway, ivory is no longer available from that particular source and it is no longer legal to harvest it from that particular source. Does this protect elephants? I don't know, but I hope so.

It's topical for us as pianists for obvious reasons - although piano keyboards use very little ivory from a tusk, but that use still requires a dead elephant. Of course, I think it's ridiculous that pianos with ivory keyboards are subject to harsh customs laws - it's illogical in so many respects - but it's easier for authorities to do blanket bans than it is for them to get into the nuances of what's actually happening, and that means it's harder for end users.

I know that a new ivory keyboard covering can, in the UK, be fitted to any piano, legally, should a customer have enough money to pay for it. I don't know where the stock of ivory comes from for that. My own personal view is that all piano factories and restoration companies need to stop offering ivory as an option on their keyboards, and I was really disappointed to hear that some makers were still offering new ivory to customers on new and restored instruments.

Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: joe80] #2535680
05/01/16 04:43 AM
05/01/16 04:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,493
Reseda, California
J
JohnSprung Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
JohnSprung  Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
J

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,493
Reseda, California
Originally Posted by joe80
My own personal view is that all piano factories and restoration companies need to stop offering ivory as an option on their keyboards, and I was really disappointed to hear that some makers were still offering new ivory to customers on new and restored instruments.


Factory use of real ivory stopped in the U.S. by 1960, and worldwide by 1990 per the sticky thread about it. IIRC, that info was researched by Sally Phillips.



-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2535693
05/01/16 06:37 AM
05/01/16 06:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 965
R
R_B Offline
500 Post Club Member
R_B  Offline
500 Post Club Member
R

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 965
Only in as much as it takes that quantity OFF the market FOREVER is it somehow a "Good" thing.

The alternatives being;
a) Lock it up until someone bribes "the holder of the keys".
b) Put it on the market to lower black market prices and thereby make poaching less attractive - hopefully use the proceeds to some good purpose, e.g. elephant protection.

Unfortunately burning it DOES raise the black market price, so poaching becomes somewhat more attractive to those already positioned and poised to do so.



Last edited by R_B; 05/01/16 06:38 AM.
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2535711
05/01/16 09:46 AM
05/01/16 09:46 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,290
M
maurus Offline
1000 Post Club Member
maurus  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,290
IMO one should not underestimate the need to get the idea into the public sphere that killing elephants for their tusks is wrong. In that sense the burning ceremony may have an importance going beyond purely economic considerations.

Too many crimes in this world go unnoticed and uncriticized.

Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2535716
05/01/16 10:05 AM
05/01/16 10:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,058
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,058
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by maurus
Too many crimes in this world go unnoticed and uncriticized.

Very true.

Another factor in the equation is the rampant corruption within the government in some of these countries. There is some corruption within all governments in every country in the world. Sometimes it is discovered and challenged, and sometimes it is just accepted as business as usual.

As we say here in the south, you can create/pass laws till the cows come home, but enforcing them is a different story.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2535720
05/01/16 10:10 AM
05/01/16 10:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 965
R
R_B Offline
500 Post Club Member
R_B  Offline
500 Post Club Member
R

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 965
I agree, but there will always be enough people who just BELIEVE that only "fer real" elephant ivory is good enough - for THEM.

Somewhere (on the web, where else ? or maybe in conversation) I read/heard that there is an alternative tusk that is NOT regulated and is in abundant supply.
Supposedly it is "indistinguishable" from elephant tusk ivory once installed as key tops.
Doubtless SOME self proclaimed con_I_sewers believe that they can tell the difference laugh

It may have been Walrus tusks, whale bone, or wild boar, I didn't pay it much attention.

Techno_weenie that I am... I am tempted to believe that ivory from tusks of elephants that have died of natural causes COULD be distinguished from those slaughtered for profit.
Don't ask me HOW (yet) I just have faith in technology (forensics specifically) laugh
I have less problem with the use of body parts of those that have died naturally.

Some good sense regulation could be possible.

Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: Beemer] #2535748
05/01/16 12:26 PM
05/01/16 12:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 13
MA
Leaviathan Offline
Junior Member
Leaviathan  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 13
MA
They were trying to breed it with a female, not sure of the outcome.

Originally Posted by Beemer
I believe only one white male rhino left frown

Ian

Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2535753
05/01/16 12:38 PM
05/01/16 12:38 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,951
Scotland
Beemer Offline
Bronze Subscriber
Beemer  Offline
Bronze Subscriber

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,951
Scotland
Let's hope he comes

Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: JohnSprung] #2535763
05/01/16 01:00 PM
05/01/16 01:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,887
J
joe80 Offline
2000 Post Club Member
joe80  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,887
Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Originally Posted by joe80
My own personal view is that all piano factories and restoration companies need to stop offering ivory as an option on their keyboards, and I was really disappointed to hear that some makers were still offering new ivory to customers on new and restored instruments.


Factory use of real ivory stopped in the U.S. by 1960, and worldwide by 1990 per the sticky thread about it. IIRC, that info was researched by Sally Phillips.



C. Bechstein used ivory on a piano recently, there was an article about it in our newspapers about 18 months ago. Blüthner's will fit an ivory keyboard on request to any customer providing they can have the piano exported to their territory. I know of about 5 new ivory keyboards that have been used on rebuilds in the last 3 years.

Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: joe80] #2535796
05/01/16 02:47 PM
05/01/16 02:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 539
Chicago
I
iLaw Offline
500 Post Club Member
iLaw  Offline
500 Post Club Member
I

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 539
Chicago
Bear in mind that manufacturers that offer "ivory" key tops on new pianos are almost certainly not using elephant ivory. Tons of mammoth ivory tusks have been dug up and are being used for piano keys. I don't know that I approve of the practice, in part because it causes confusion. But then I was raised on plastic keys and have never considered ivory to be a superior material.

Larry.

Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2535803
05/01/16 03:09 PM
05/01/16 03:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,887
J
joe80 Offline
2000 Post Club Member
joe80  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,887
It doesn't say what kind of ivory has been used here, but it says that Bechstein made two keyboards - one with, and one without ivory in order to allow the piano to travel to countries where ivory can't be imported.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/jun/07/ivory-keys-bechstein-piano-dismays-environmentalists

In my own humble opinion, this is complete decadence, and they should have just stayed with the synthetic key tops. It was 2013 after all.....

Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2536017
05/02/16 10:39 AM
05/02/16 10:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,048
W
wouter79 Offline
5000 Post Club Member
wouter79  Offline
5000 Post Club Member
W

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,048
IMHO there's nothing wrong with using and selling ivory. The problem is that wild animals are killed illegally to get it.

I think the best solution would be to make sure enough cheap ivory is available.


[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: wouter79] #2536025
05/02/16 11:49 AM
05/02/16 11:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,614
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,614
Oakland
Not if "enough" is more than all the ivory on living animals throughout the world.


Semipro Tech
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2536141
05/02/16 07:38 PM
05/02/16 07:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,653
Kuwait
PhilipInChina Offline
3000 Post Club Member
PhilipInChina  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,653
Kuwait
If the existing stockpiles of ivory exceed demand then there is no need to kill any more elephants to source it. Then elephants dying naturally would supply a certain amount.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: PhilipInChina] #2536145
05/02/16 07:54 PM
05/02/16 07:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,614
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,614
Oakland
So how much is the demand? Is it less than the existing stockpile of ivory, including that which is on living animals? Perhaps not!


Semipro Tech
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2536170
05/02/16 10:29 PM
05/02/16 10:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,653
Kuwait
PhilipInChina Offline
3000 Post Club Member
PhilipInChina  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,653
Kuwait
I don't know but given that many tons were destroyed a few days ago the price will remain buoyant and poaching will continue to be attractive to people who don't mind doing it.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2536243
05/03/16 07:55 AM
05/03/16 07:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,058
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,058
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
I don't know but given that many tons were destroyed a few days ago the price will remain buoyant and poaching will continue to be attractive to people who don't mind doing it.

That's the thing about law-breakers/criminals; they don't mind doing it. Most never get caught, depending on what vice law enforcement is concentrating on at the time.

This is wayyyyy OT, but semi-related, I suppose. I worked at a GM assembly plant for several years. One thing I noticed and was astonished to see/witness was the illegal vice that went on in that plant. Illegal gambling, loan-sharking, drugs, prostitution, black-market stolen goods, you name it. And, as long as vehicle sales were good and the assembly line was moving, the company turned a blind eye to most of the illegal activities.

On occasion, during a recession or lull in vehicle sales, the company would hire undercover cops to come in and help clean things up a bit, but it was not an ongoing process.

So, yes, Philip, there are plenty of individuals who don't mind breaking the law or killing an endangered animal to harvest it's body parts high in demand on the black-market.

Were it not for some semblance of law and order in the world, we would live in a chaotic society where only the strongest survive.

I, for one, hope the authorities keep up the pressure on the elephant poachers.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2536245
05/03/16 08:01 AM
05/03/16 08:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,653
Kuwait
PhilipInChina Offline
3000 Post Club Member
PhilipInChina  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,653
Kuwait
I agree entirely. Elephant poaching should be stopped. I am simply unconvinced that keeping the price of ivory high will have anything but the opposite effect.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: PhilipInChina] #2536270
05/03/16 10:11 AM
05/03/16 10:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,614
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,614
Oakland
I am not convinced that anything would lower the price of ivory.


Semipro Tech
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2536374
05/03/16 04:47 PM
05/03/16 04:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,493
Reseda, California
J
JohnSprung Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
JohnSprung  Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
J

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,493
Reseda, California

I'm sure that criminalizing old pianos won't help elephants at all.



-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2536429
05/03/16 07:35 PM
05/03/16 07:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,588
🎹
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
Retsacnal  Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015


Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,588
🎹
Burning the stockpile had no impact on the ivory market, at least in terms of supply, demand, or prices, because it's already been removed from the market (unless it's being pilfered and sold), so the market value for ivory already reflects its absence.

Selling it to protect living elephants would probably be a bad idea. First of all, it's effectively contraband, and would be unethical for their government to engage in the trade of it (since it's illegal for others to do so). Plus, although a stockpile that large would likely drive prices down for a while, the increased accessibility might actually increase long-term demand, and drive prices back up later. Minimally, the "normal" dynamic would return once it's consumed anyway.

It's also difficult to know what impact the stockpile could have, because without concrete numbers we can't know how large it is relative to the existing market for ivory.

I think the problem with trying to split hairs about ivory taken from dead elephants versus illegally poached ivory, is that there is no cost effective way to tell the difference.

In the world we live, "they" have decided that ivory is "bad," and that's that. It's going to remain problematic for people who have it, or want it. The piano industry is not complicit, of course, but ivory keys will probably become more and more problematic, or at least a red-tape hassle to deal with.

My piano has a pretty nice set of ivories on it, no chips, but a couple of hairline cracks. I continue to consider replacing them with something synthetic. Partly because of the above, and partly because I think for the price of repairing a few keys, I could probably have all of them replaced with a modern keytop.


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: Retsacnal] #2536449
05/03/16 09:01 PM
05/03/16 09:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,493
Reseda, California
J
JohnSprung Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
JohnSprung  Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
J

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,493
Reseda, California
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
.... I continue to consider replacing them with something synthetic. ...


Me, too. I want to go with powder blue naturals and bright maroon sharps, just to make it clear it's not ivory or ebony.

Another reason not to look at the keys.... ;-)



-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2536569
05/04/16 11:13 AM
05/04/16 11:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,048
W
wouter79 Offline
5000 Post Club Member
wouter79  Offline
5000 Post Club Member
W

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,048
What if they would eg synthetically make ivory, or breed thousands elephants just for their ivory and sell that? I suppose at some point there is enough. And if it would be made cheap enough, the searching and killing wild elephants would be a waste of money.

But that is not going to happen as long as ivory trade would be illegal. Which is exactly why the prices keep high....


[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Re: Kenya burns stockpile of ivory [Re: accordeur] #2536587
05/04/16 12:13 PM
05/04/16 12:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,058
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,058
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by wouter79
But that is not going to happen as long as ivory trade would be illegal. Which is exactly why the prices keep high....

This topic is likely over-discussed on PW, but I've seen documentaries regarding the prohibition of alcoholic beverages in the US. The result was a thriving, vibrant underworld of illegal pubs, bars, clubs and anywhere else where folks could drink alcohol and party. The law was such a miserable failure that the prohibition on alcoholic beverages was repealed.

It's the same with the illegal drug trade; especially marijuana/cannabis. Now, some states are making it legal, and others are turning a blind eye and not enforcing the current laws in those states.

There is simply not enough park rangers, law enforcement officers or even military to completely stop the illegal ivory trade.

Of course, I don't have an answer either, other than to have some legal avenues for the harvesting of ivory without killing elephants.

Recently, the world famous Barnum and Baily Circus, that has been around for many years, has discontinued the live elephant acts in their show due to scrutiny from the animal rights activists, who said the elephants were beaten and mistreated in order to be trained to perform. So, the elephants will be exiled to a 200 acre reserve in the middle of nowhere, somewhere in Florida to be cared for and forgotten by all but a few attendants/keepers.

All I can say is that I hope the elephants of the world with ivory tusks protruding out of their mouths survive, live long and prosper.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Piano environment monitoring
by Chris Snyder. 10/23/18 09:57 AM
Basic Canon Practice - Mary Had a Little Lamb
by LooneyTune. 10/23/18 09:45 AM
unbalanced lineout to balanced xlr speaker in?
by varignet. 10/23/18 09:40 AM
Impressions of the Shanghai Music Show
by Campanella12. 10/23/18 08:37 AM
I have violated Chris Tomlin's copyright?
by johnlewisgrant. 10/23/18 08:34 AM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Petrof
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics187,951
Posts2,754,914
Members91,316
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2