2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
51 members (accordeur, AndyP, David B, 1957, Bruce In Philly, 36251, computron, 14 invisible), 419 guests, and 383 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Printed piano music
#2535782 05/01/16 01:53 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 759
I
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
I
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 759
Why do printers try to cram so much on one page? If they could only spread it out just a little more!!!! Makes me nuts!!!

Not sure if it's true, but my teacher years ago told me that the more expensive manuscripts are printed better. Not all crammed together.


Always working to improve "Chopsticks". I'll never give up on it.
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Printed piano music
Isabelle1949 #2535792 05/01/16 02:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 112
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 112
I use a couple of different (not ideal) solutions when using a keyboard.

1. Scan the page and print it on A3 paper, or

2. scan the page to PDF and view it on a large wall monitor mounted right behind the keyboard. I can tailor the size of the page from a portion of the monitor screen to filling the screen, and even have it display 2 pages.


Re: Printed piano music
Isabelle1949 #2535808 05/01/16 03:26 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,398
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,398
Isabelle:

When you write "printers," do you mean music publishers? I don't think you can tar them all with the same brush. Many publishers of print music do have very legible texts.

You also have to consider that the more spread out the text, the more page turns the player has to try to cope with.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Printed piano music
Isabelle1949 #2535810 05/01/16 03:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 49
C
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 49
I just use my iPad as a sheet music holder.

Re: Printed piano music
Isabelle1949 #2535815 05/01/16 03:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,830
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 13,830
Now that I'm old and infirm (well, almost..... wink ), I find it more difficult to read small print. And often, the most densely written and difficult music are printed the smallest, which makes it difficult to read. Like the Durand edition of Ravel's piano music, much of which is note-dense and very difficult......

It does save paper (and therefore, rainforests - assuming it's not from sustainable sources), and reduces page turns, and shelf space, though I do wonder whether the publisher believes that most people buying those scores just want to admire them, and aren't planning to learn to play the music. Or maybe he wants to dissuade people from even thinking of learning to play it, by making the music seem more note-dense than it already is......


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Printed piano music
Isabelle1949 #2535816 05/01/16 03:40 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 759
I
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
I
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 759
BruceD, yes publishers, but not all. I would rather be able to read the music than worry about the page turns. If I can't read it, won't have to worry about turning the page.


Always working to improve "Chopsticks". I'll never give up on it.
Re: Printed piano music
Isabelle1949 #2535818 05/01/16 03:40 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 759
I
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
I
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 759
Bennevis, well said!!!


Always working to improve "Chopsticks". I'll never give up on it.
Re: Printed piano music
Isabelle1949 #2535856 05/01/16 06:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,784
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,784
It can be a pain in the neck, that's for sure. On a few occasions--with short pieces--I've re-notated the piece in MuseScore, where I can choose how wide each measure is.

I think 80% of it is publishers wanting to save on the costs of added pages. It does add up, I suppose. If Nikolas reads this thread, maybe he'll have some insight he's willing to share.


[Linked Image]
Yamaha C3X
In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams

Re: Printed piano music
Isabelle1949 #2535865 05/01/16 06:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,228
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,228
Denes Agay's Classics to Modern is a pain - you need 20-20 vision to read the music. I've taken the book to Kinko's to make the musc a bit larger and it helps a little bit but not much.

My teacher likes this music book, I'm not a big fan. Isabelle, I'm with you on this one.

Re: Printed piano music
Isabelle1949 #2535878 05/01/16 08:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,085
W
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,085
Originally Posted by Isabelle1949
Why do printers try to cram so much on one page? If they could only spread it out just a little more!!!! Makes me nuts!!!


There is almost certainly a financial aspect to this.


Whizbang
amateur ragtime pianist
https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeschala
Re: Printed piano music
Isabelle1949 #2536075 05/02/16 03:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,562
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,562
Good thing I searched for my name! grin

Sorry for bumping this thread, but I think it is important to share some insights...

Professional printed scores are bound either by a staple in the middle, or are sown and glued on the book spine.

This means that whenever you;re binding a book like that (and not SIMPLY by gluing the pages together, or by binding them with a wire or something), then you have to consider that the page number goes up by 4 pages.

If you're actually printing in offset (as opposed to digital) then chances are that, because of the paper size they use, you're bound to be going up by 8 pages, rather than 4.

So a score that's 23 pages, will be 24. A score that's 25 pages will be either 28, or 32, depending on the print method. Technically there's no other way to do it!

So imagine having to print a score of either 40 pages, or 32 pages for 10,000 times! These extra pages cost A LOT, and weight A LOT, and take up A LOT of additional storage.

__________________________________________

Then again I do NOT like that and I don't care for the added pages, as long as the layout is good for the eye.

But of course then there's the page turns that one needs to consider. There have been a very few cases that I simply gave up (basically the music was without any stop, so it was impossible to find a place to have a normal page turn. It can happen really...). In that case having 32 pages instead of 40 means that you're saving the performer from 4 page turns! That's quite a handy accomplishment really! wink

Re: Printed piano music
Stubbie #2536089 05/02/16 03:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,268
J
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,268
Originally Posted by Stubbie
I--with short pieces--I've re-notated the piece in MuseScore, where I can choose how wide each measure is.


+1. I love MuseScore for that. It can help to have a big, easy-reading version for learning, and then condense it for performance, when page turns are the problem. As you learn, you're doing less reading of each note, and more just having the score remind you what the next phrase is.



-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Printed piano music
Isabelle1949 #2536092 05/02/16 04:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,562
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,562
Hem... you do know that both Finale and Sibelius do that, right? It's one of the basic functions of a notation software.

Re: Printed piano music
Nikolas #2536114 05/02/16 05:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,784
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,784
Originally Posted by Nikolas
Hem... you do know that both Finale and Sibelius do that, right? It's one of the basic functions of a notation software.
Certainly, and they're fine software, though rather pricey for the occasional amateur user. There is a "junior" version of Finale, FinaleNotepad, and it is is free. I don't know if Sibelius has a free version. MuseScore is free.


[Linked Image]
Yamaha C3X
In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams

Re: Printed piano music
Isabelle1949 #2536127 05/02/16 06:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,562
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,562
Yes, I know and you're right. Sorry. smile

Re: Printed piano music
Isabelle1949 #2536130 05/02/16 06:16 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 759
I
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
I
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 759
I think I will see what I can do with Musescore. If that doesn't work, I'll need a pair of binoculars and someone to hold those and turn pages. If I can't see the music, I can't play it.


Always working to improve "Chopsticks". I'll never give up on it.
Re: Printed piano music
Isabelle1949 #2536207 05/03/16 02:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,960

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014
1000 Post Club Member
Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,960
I just started to use the crop function in ForScore (iPad app) - it's great for those tiny scores with too much blank space around. After cropping, I can put the iPad Pro in landscape and have two large enough pages in front of me, which I couldn't read before. I really think that going digital is the best option especially when one's eyes are not so young anymore! And you can do all kinds of edits to the score and just save it as a new file, and keep multiple versions. I love my music books, but I always look for ebooks and pdf's now if at all possible.

Re: Printed piano music
Isabelle1949 #2536422 05/03/16 07:04 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 759
I
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
I
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 759
Sinophilia, I took snap shots of music and cropped out the junk. Will se how it works on my iPad. Also picked up reading glasses at 2.5 power. My regular glasses are the near, far and in between kind, so to use the reading part I had to arch my neck which is not good with an existing three level cervical fusion.


Always working to improve "Chopsticks". I'll never give up on it.

Moderated by  BB Player 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our October 2020 Free Piano Newsletter is Here!
---------------------
3,000,000+!
------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Save my sanity: CLP-785 vs CA-99 vs N1X vs ...
by tofupiano - 10/31/20 06:01 PM
Late '90s Yamaha U1 MSRP/SMP?
by re22 - 10/31/20 06:01 PM
Piano tariffs in the US?
by Sweelinck - 10/31/20 05:11 PM
Kawai Novus NV5 'loud note' problem
by John Dean - 10/31/20 03:54 PM
Beethoven and Bechstein
by OE1FEU - 10/31/20 03:37 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics202,515
Posts3,019,259
Members99,090
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4